Forum

Hello there, I am forwarding these thoughts because I am interested in bringing in innovating thoughts into the competitive scene better everyone’s experience, including mine. I have cross-posted these thoughts to:

– the tf2 and truetf2 subreddits (https://redd.it/4k7ck6 / https://redd.it/4k7dhp)
– the tf2stadium steam group (http://steamcommunity.com/groups/TF2Stadium/discussions/0/357286663678907922/)
– the etf2l.org forums (http://etf2l.org/forum/feedback/topic-32982/)

I am not experienced with competitive. This is a look from an outsider’s perspective, as someone who has barely looked at lobbies and never entered a season.

I have been wanting to play in a setting more serious than pub/community servers. But my intermittent availability (work, Internet via mobile data, home on weekends) make me consider against entering a fixed team.

I believe there are a lot of people who also can not afford to commit to a team or invest more time into TF2 and yet want to casually play competitive matches instead of screwing around on Valve or community servers.

Knowing about pick-up websites (tf2stadium.com and tf2center.com)

So I take a look at websites for pick-up matches (such as tf2lobby in the past, and currently tf2stadium.com and tf2center.com), and I find, there are a not a lot of players there and matches take long to fill up.

Putting aside that some people might not be interested in competitive, I would guess that not a lot of TF2 players know about those (new) websites and that they could use them to pick up other players and play in a more organized and competitive way.

Another further guess of mine is that people would stop checking these websites because they often don’t find a whole lot of lobbies going on.

Suggestions

There are two ideas or thoughts I would like to chip into the community to help the competitive scene gain traction.

Live feeds from pick-up websites (tf2stadium.com, tf2center.com)

To use these websites it requires knowing about them. Also to check them regularly. I believe it would be prudent to integrate more info about these websites in relevant places.

For example, the sidebar on this subreddit could feature a bot-updated feed of current lobby matches on tf2stadium and tf2center. Such a feed could read (as space allows, perhaps with class logo rather than text):
[EU] cp_badlands needs 2x Soldier, 2x Medic

People be able to visit the subreddit and be able to check at a casual glance whether there were any lobbies up, and the websites would benefit from more users and gain traction.

Integration with competitive community websites (ETF2L, UGC)

In thinking that the tournament and season websites would probably have their own servers (community and higher skilled) as well, I went there, and found this was not so. Now, is that not a lot of untapped potential? I mean, where do these players play when they are not playing with their own teams? Well, I have not really found these servers even though I’d like to skill up and get better.

Here is a thought. Combine the pick-up websites with the competitive community. As in, on these websites, let there as well be an updated feed of pick-up lobbies being played.

Perhaps create an entirely integrated pick-up network where players interested in competitive are able to congregate further to play casual competitive matches while doing seasons.

I am happy to hear about your thoughts, and will be replying in a couple hours.

*****

Common replies

On lobbies filling up quicker at peak times and the negative feedback loop.

I should say, I haven’t seen the peak times, and I guess lobbies probably would get filled up really quickly.

As for the self-fulfilling prophecy, if players are put off from doing lobbies because not many sign up for them, would it not be better if starting a lobby and seeing it filling up were better visible (for example on reddit)?

On spreading awareness for this post.

I agree with you that a lot of people here (in tf2 communities) already know about lobbies and organized play. It is not easy to reach newer players except from within the game, and I suppose, only Valve controls that.

Perhaps I should reword as in that the experienced playerbase that knows about lobbies should benefit from a more immediate response about lobbies, or that they should be more visible than a link away.

Perhaps it’s my own fault that I’m too lazy to check the websites to see whether a new lobby is up. I for sure would immediately jump in if I saw a spot for my favorite class. Would other people feel the same way?

On target audience.

I do think I’m not misplaced in addressing these communities about pushing for integration and better feedback loops for lobbies and community. It’s something their admins would have to care about if someone wanted that to happen.

About inexperienced players joining lobbies and making the match bad for others.

Do these lobby websites not have functions for lobby leaders to check whether someone’s experienced enough? I mean – people would have the same issue when new players find these websites and try to join.

Would a form of ranking also help with this? I mean, the individual players could be assigned a score on their performance in one or more matches and be better matched into sort of a bracket, perhaps the lobby leader’s score color-coded relative to their score.

On the influx of new players from reddit.

Well, you can’t quite check their skill, but sort of infer it from gathered stats such as damage per second, their “loyalty to matches” and such.

The lobby leader ought to be unable to set the threshold higher than his own stats.

But I agree, people not sticking to the rules and laxing out to eventually forsake the objective for fun is not pretty fun for everyone. Not sure can be done about that except though .. let’s say, player “upvoting” other players, perhaps?

And I think players will have to take players if they can’t find better ones. Most of the time in settings that aren’t pure tournament or season matches, I believe, anyway.

On ETF2L, tf2center and tf2stadium not hosting servers.

You are right about that. It would be a waste for ETF2L and similar tournament websites to host servers. Would it not be much better for them to integrate the lobby websites – as in use them for players to play on a player hosted server?

Quoted from keylsior

So I take a look at websites for pick-up matches (such as tf2lobby in the past, and currently tf2stadium.com and tf2center.com), and I find, there are a not a lot of players there and matches take long to fill up.

Putting aside that some people might not be interested in competitive, I would guess that not a lot of TF2 players know about those (new) websites and that they could use them to pick up other players and play in a more organized and competitive way.

Another further guess of mine is that people would stop checking these websites because they often don’t find a whole lot of lobbies going on.

With concerns to how long it takes to start a match, of course it isn’t going to be as fast as something like CS:GO in-game matchmaking because the competitive scene is way smaller and third-party websites usually take longer (see FACEIT or similar pug sites for CS; I think it’s pretty safe to assume that they are less popular than Valve’s matchmaking system). However, they still fill up pretty fast during primetime and right now TF2Center is way more popular than the current in-game competitive matchmaking because the community-based competitive experience (item bans + class limits) is enjoyed and taken seriously more than what is essentially a 6v6 pub right now.

Quoted from keylsior

I mean, where do these players play when they are not playing with their own teams?

Right now, PugChamp, TF2Center and mixes organised through the tf.wars IRC or teamfortress.tv Discord channel. Honestly, I’ve never met a competitive player who doesn’t know about one of these sites or channels.

Quoted from keylsior

Do these lobby websites not have functions for lobby leaders to check whether someone’s experienced enough?

TF2Center has a “Minimal requirements” feature for both specific classes and all classes. Within this you can specify reliability, lobbies played and hours played. If the lobby doesn’t make use of this feature and there are leaders and players complaining, it’s their own fault for playing in a lobby that doesn’t make use of it.