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ban dead ringer. ban beggars bazuka. ban scorch shot. ban amby. ban market gardener

Quoted from VoidTrinity

I don’t see much point in banning the razorback, this would only be a slight advantage when the sniper isn’t around the combo because who would go for a sniper stab rather then a med/demo pick when he’s around the combo. And seeing as the meta is for the sniper to be constantly around the combo, it wouldn’t change the current meta much as the sniper will have a pyro near his arse all the time.

i’d take a sniper pick over a medic pick any day of the week

Quoted from Scissors

[…]

I think it’s the opposite, razorback is useless when you are away from the combo, because you can just shoot them. Khazul always complains about the sniper having razorback and being with the combo, because if you try to shoot him you will get rekd. Now you can get easy 1 for 1 trades which benefit you and you can do chains.

I wouldn’t say useless, just much less effective to the point where death is imminent unless he’s got a buddy. But yeah, with recent balance changes – big earner – stabbing an easy stationary sniper can lead to easier combo picks.

Would say that against good snipers I would value more of the sniper pick than random heavy pick.
This is a positive change!
Sniper running razorback + full time heals is almost impossible for spy to take care off. Of course you can “harras” the sniper a little and your team can use that distraction as a possibility but that shit is hard to succeed.
Now the possibility to trade yourself for sniper as a spy will give teams more possibilities to push.
Still it isn’t easy to kill the sniper. If sniper holds with the combo, combo will likely have a pyro with them so spy still has to “sneak” through pyros guard.

Let them pick classes get picks 8)

Thanks to everyone providing actual constructive opinions on the weapons we are discussing: razorback, pomson and phlog.

As for the rest, I’d ask you reconsider shit-posting in this thread because this is an actual chance to influence whitelist decisions for the general population, and having to sift through garbage to find the serious discussions isn’t fun.

I’ll be removing off-topic posts as we go along, to keep this whole thing somewhat useful to the admins when we’re discussing unlocks between each other.

http://pastebin.com/mn7wpzXa

A conversation me and cloudy had about the razorback ban and sniper/spy dynamic in general, maybe someone could get something from it idk

Quoted from 4hp

I dunno, I think the razorback discussion is just a symptom of a core issue with sniper in HL. Sniper is essentially a brick wall you can’t push into when he has combo protection, to the point where if he has no razorback the spies out there think it’s a pretty decent idea to die for him instead of the medic/demo, and if you actually want to change that you have to nerf sniper in a more fundamental way. It’s still gonna be hard to stab a sniper on the combo with some shitty pyro main flaming everywhere.

Problem is the class is balanced for most situations including 6s, so most people will rightfully argue that sniper’s excessive power in HL is a problem of HL and not the sniper.

idea behind the razorback is broken as ambassador,both of them giving the opportunity of countering the other class which is stupid because whitout razorback spy is the biggest counter of the sniper but if you block the spies ability to backstab he has to deal with his primary weapon.Revolver isnt viable while sniper is overhealed and ambassador isnt the powerhouse that can be deal with buffed sniper while he is close to his combo that is the main reason sniper is the brick wall can only breakable with counter-sniping also whitout the razorback ambassador is will be more annoying than ever for snipers, there is already spies that spam the sniper across the map with ambassador and if sniper is distracted spy can get a cheap kill if he is not just run away with dead ringer and try his change next time.For 6s it may be not broken but definitely frustrating, two reason people dont complain about razorback in 6s because there is less people to protect sniper but sniper is still overhealed most of the time and his team will still protect till his get a important pick at this moment there is no need to offclass to spy and deal with the sniper.Second problem is just a truth about the game spy is the weakest class and its only viable to get cheap back-caps in 6s.Imo both of the weapons is broken except pub and deserves a decent nerf.

TL;DR
-sniper shouldnt be able to deny the backstab.
-spy shouldnt be able to headshot.