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[S9] Highlander Season 9 Feedback
Created 21st September 2015 @ 15:50
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Quoted from MARS^
[…]
Not everyone can hit doubledonks consistantly, so you could argue that someone deserves to do more damage if he masters the weapon (I believe someone brought up the same argument when beggar’s was discussed last season).
I don’t know if you actually play demo in HL, but it doesn’t seem like it. It’s not like you just randomly spam cannon balls everywhere and get magical doubledonks. There is a certain distance where you just have to click and spam but most of the time you have to time your cannon for it to doubledonk.
If you want to discuss tactics with people who don’t know how to play the game, go to r/truetf2. No, I don’t play demo, but I’m affected by the LC as much as the demo is, especially when playing medic. There is no skill in timing double donks, so arguing under the premise that “not everyone can hit double donks consistantly[sic]”, is stupid. Why would I care that you are too shit to hit double donks when I play against demos who can?
Loose Cannon might be annoying but meh, I don’t think it’s THAT better than stock Grenade Launcher, the main issue about this weapon is… it’s annoying. But you know what? Gun spies are annoying too (hi Villdjack you are annoying :^)), as well as beggar’s and many other things, but on the other hand banning everything and playing only with stocks would be boring, wouldn’t it be?
As for map pool, I’d go upward, steel, gravelpit (or find something good to replace it, another problem is the fact noone wants to scrim it ever so it’s pretty much only played in mixes or officials rip), product, process and then non-“pro” badwater, gully instead of sunshine, ashville or coalplant instead of warmtic, borneo instead of barnblitz perhaps? I really like lakeside too, it’s rather fun to play on.
And the last match of the season should either be prem final as that’s the biggest and the most important match or the match between 2nd high team vs some prem team to get that guaranteed seed thing as that would be actually a match deciding which team is going to play in prem.
Medigun pickups should be disabled, that’s just too big thing imo.
Rest is just as good as it could be :)
Ban beggars, loose cannon because those things make the game unnecessary lethal and unpredictable. I want to see teams relying on tactics and ground denial than gimmicks.
But the real question is which weapon is a bigger upgrade to the pipe launcher: Loose Cannon or Loch and Load???
Loose Cannon
Extremely powerful in niché scenarios, but you lose range compared to stock PL. The big hitbox makes it better for self-protection in close range (as it’s easier to hit AND has higher knockback). The loss of range is less significant because of the importance of sniper sightlines, and you can always just lob a sticky a bit further.
Overall I agree with the (seemingly) majority opinion here, in that LC is more of a sidegrade if anything else. It is however extremely annoying, and a lot of people would breathe a sigh of relief if it was banned. Annoying because it has the inconsistent threat of a one shot to the low health classes, and can almost outright kill/drop a medic — in effect forcing out a very early uber in some situations, even disregarding any sticky traps. Then there’s the pyro thing where your airblast doesn’t reset the detonation timer so often you just deal 100 damage to yourself and accomplish nothing.
Sydney Sleeper
I’ve only ever seen it used by Lazy in mixes. Lose headshots, but gain minicrits for 2 to 8 seconds for the whole team on targets hit and charge a 150 shot 0.5 faster. I honestly cannot think of any situation where this is outright BETTER than a stock sniper rifle would be. It just accommodates a different playstyle. A no-skill weapon it definitely is not, you still have to click man, just not in the head. Sniper v Sniper you can argue faster charge = win more, but if both snipers are buffed then only the non-sydney sniper is capable of a OHK. Also, when covering a dude in jarate, bear in mind that being healed almost halves the effect of jarate (IIRC) so the mini-crit time for combo classes is in effect closer to something like 1-4, which is almost insignificant.
Short Circuit
It gets ammo from dispensers, which isn’t (presumably) a trait intended by valve as it’s not in the tool-tip. It can therefore be used on a payload cart continuously, denying soldiers’ and demos’ damage on the cart if utilized correctly. To which I say, what’s the big deal? That’s only 2 of the 8 fighting classes. This one aspect of the weapon is preventing a bigger variety and flexibility for engineer on defense. As the wrangler was nerfed, short circuit could now become another good defensive option. I don’t think it can be better than wrangler, but it would be interesting and refreshing to see it used.
Beggars Bazooka
Everyone knows this perp. Requires preventative rather than reactive defensive responses — basically, don’t let the soldier jump or reach your medic, or you’re screwed. Can be managed with knowledge of where the soldier will jump from and a good space to dodge the jump (think corners, enclosed spaces with only one doorway). The weapon is only really, really good with high jumps as they give you time to load 3 rockets in in the air. These give ample time to relocate and shoot the soldier, although he probably won’t go down very quickly if he’s been buffed (~250 hp after a double jump with gunboats).
The weapon’s main weakness compared to stock and others seems to be flank holding and ammo management. So it’s really only good in play-styles that focus on picking key targets or in general being a hindrance to the enemy’s team.
It’s annoying, but it’s mostly because the weapon is still wildly misunderstood — you can’t react to it like to a normal soldier bomb.
Map pool
Gravelpit is a nice map to watch, but a bit horrible to play as it requires specific tactics. Please, if you do decide to keep it, consider putting it very early or very late in the season, to allow the teams to either focus practice on it, or develop good synergy to be able to play it well.
Badwater_pro seems to have jumped from one extreme to another — from heavily defense skewed to heavily offense skewed. Do with it what you will.
The other map choices are fine, although I do think more variety would be nice to have. Replace barnblitz with borneo, pretty please? <3
Thanks for reading!
First of all, #banbeggarsS9.
Not sure about LC. It is situational and questionably more defensive on maps like pl, but it can make people really damn powerful on small maps.
Personally fine with medigun pickups disabled, although, as many people said before me, it’s sad to see that competitve TF2 is taking yet another step away from casual tf2. Maybe if it gets fixed and works like vita saw, it’d be worth adding in?
Been a while since I have seen short curcuit in action, but it isn’t only going to deny soldiers and demomen. Pretty sure it can also deny other projectile-based weapons like Jarate, Mad Milk, Flares, Sandman’s stunning ball and some others? Not 100% sure about it, so, I’ll edit it when I test it out, but I’m probably right here.
Maps-wise.
I am among those people who don’t see the point of playing on pro version of badwater.
I’d also play change sunshine with gullywash.
Picking up medi guns would imo increase the skill cap in the sense that medics are forced to play more safe.
Items to be banned:
Beggar’s Bazooka
Loose Cannon
edit not to mention the change-on-the-fly from medi gun to kritz etc.
Last edited by Kumimarja,
Quoted from ArchAngel
Been a while since I have seen short curcuit in action, but it isn’t only going to deny soldiers and demomen. Pretty sure it can also deny other projectile-based weapons like Jarate, Mad Milk, Flares, Sandman’s stunning ball and some others?
You’re correct, but it’s not a bad thing at all that it can. My example was to do with cart blocking. Most of these weapons don’t directly do damage and with good placement you can’t deny them well with SC at all. Plus, if you have short circuit out then the pyro will just W+M1 you with no issue whatsoever anyway.
The moment the game becomes unpredictable, is when it turns into a pub shitfest. When you can pick up mediguns, you can’t accurately predict when the enemy will have uber, and adjust your positioning/play according to that. Ruins the games pace and introduces a new element of randomness. Really really wish they would never have added this shit mechanic, still don’t even have it bound to any key because I think it’s so out of place in this game
Picking up mediguns makes plays like suiciding on first PL points pointless, because the medic can drop and spawn in time to pick the medigun up, before (or just in time) the opposing combo is able to push.
The mechanic would in theory make things more skillbased (kinda), however in practise it makes everything more random and retarded because no medic can consistently adjust properly, and it just ends up breaking the game balance and pacing.
Ban the beggars.
Last edited by Toast,
What if valve added another feature regarding picking up medi guns from the ground like uber percentage is 50% less from when it was dropped?
edit or remove the uber percentage alltogether?
Last edited by Kumimarja,
Uber counting is actually not random at all and is fairly easy. You have all the information needed to properly count ubers. You know what % their medic is on when he drops the medigun, you know if the medigun is in a position where he can easily pick it up again, and get some of his charge back. Sure, you don’t know if the medic actually picked the medigun up or not, but then you just assume the worst case scenario. I’ll assume they picked up their medigun which was at around 50% when it dropped, so they now have 50%, for example.
What makes medigun pickups broken, is that the mechanic is flawed and counter intuitive. In the grand final of NC I got backstabbed mid kritz, which made my medigun drop at 80%, so I basically was granted another kritz despite fucking up and getting backstabbed. You shouldn’t have to consider that when going for a medic during the charge, that’s super unintuitive. What should the spy have done? Waited for the kritz to be over before backstabbing me? He made a good play and I should not be rewarded for that.
Medigun pickups does not increase the skill and does not make you have to play more carefully. It’s rather the opposite. Team Sweden got rid of the standard suicide bomb at the beginning of the round because it really doesn’t matter if the medic dies a few meters outside the spawn, he can just pick up his medigun again. In fact, in some situations I dropped my uber with purpose because I knew it was going to be a wasted uber, and I could just trade with whoever is going for me and pick up my medigun again when I respawned. There is no skill involved with this, and having a good medic who can survive a lot is now only a marginal benefit, when it should be a huge benefit.
I know someone will say “well, if you drop your uber, the other medic can just use his uber to get your uber before you do”. Yes, you can use the uber to get to my medigun, but the medigun will be in a place where you can’t get it without having to pop again simply to get out, which leaves you in a worse position than you originally were in. Even worse when the medic is using kritz, it is simply not worth going for a dropped kritzkrieg as defenders if the other medic dropped the medigun in a safe place, so it doesn’t matter how many times you drop the attacker’s medic, he will still have the kritz charge until he uses it.
Also, if the other medic dies in a silly spot (like inside the windows on second on upward as attacker), you might actually have room and time to build two ubers at once, which should never be a thing in TF2, ever.
Quoted from ondkaja
Loose Cannon is OP on all maps and is a straight upgrade from the nade launcher regardless of what maps you are playing. It’s good on large maps because you can spam choke points from far away and randomly get double donks to completely deny any entrance. It’s good on small maps because it’s really hard to dodge LC on midrange distances due to the fact that you are grouped up and the projectile speed of the LC.
Only reason why it still isn’t the meta is because nobody steps up with the LC and wrecks everyone.
I agree. If top prem demos actually embraced the weapon they’d be really good with it within weeks tops. If anyone watched even a single game from i55 in 6s you could see it’s potential. It’s really good for CC and the hitbox is huge. Really sucks for medics to play against it. I will point out though that the rate of fire/reload will be more of a disadvantage in Hl where you have targets all the time. Might affect overall dps. I still wouldn’t say it should be banned, but it’s pretty 50/50 for me.
Last edited by Lazybear,
Don’t forget that the loose cannon is by far the hardest weapon to deny with reflects, which gives it a big advantage for outright spamming in highlander. Not that it’s super hard to reflect, but if the cannon is primed most of those attempts result in the cannonball exploding in your face and doing minicrit self-damage because that bug is still a thing.
I wish the fuse timer would reset upon reflecting, but doubt valve would ever care about that.
Picking up medi guns seems alright to me, and is a great feature to add some more gore and action to the mid fights. Honestly wouldn’t mind having medics get their uber back or the other team simply stealing it just like that. Seems great and fun.
Weapons to bann: (With the damn bann hammer)
The one and only Beggards Bazzoke.
Game on.
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