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Suggestion: Highlander Season 9 all tiers use Swiss System
Created 16th September 2015 @ 06:49
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Yes, all teams will play each other once anyway.
Make the league consistent. Two separate pages for the highlander tables is strange, inefficient and counter intuitive.
The league will be more interesting, there will be something to find out every week other than match results, it’ll be more fun.
Premier teams currently have an advantage over the other tiers in that they see who they play during the whole season. So when Noober eSports sees they’re playing Epsilon Highlander in week 3 they can practice that map the most until week 3. Likewise, Epsi will know they don’t really need to tryhard on that map and can plan for their Week 4 map against the 2nd best highlander team Tryhard eSports. Thing is, though, Tryhard eSports actually has a tough week 3 week too, and can’t plan to focus Week 4 maps during Week 3 the way Epsi can, giving them a disadvantage Epsi doesn’t have to deal with. (counterpoint: Epsi doesn’t have it because they’re better. counter counterpoint: the league should inherently operate with equal benefits for all teams involved and truly the best teams will rightfully surface to the top of the table based on winning games without incidental little advantages prodding them upwards from the start).
Or, if prem was using the same system as every other tier, teams would always be on their toes and at no more of an advantage or disadvantage than the teams playing highlander outside of the premiership division.
I don’t have much Swiss experience in ETF2L but this would also make scheduling a bit better. Wasn’t a key reason Swiss was great was to cut down admins making default times and reading the comments and all that nonsense? If prem used Swiss too you could clearly indicate the best times to play using the system on the site. And yeah, comments can clarify times or preferences (not sure if the ETF2L system has preferences tbh) if that’s even necessary.
In fact, keeping prem on the old system but removing their wildcards is actually a worse system than before Swiss was changed for the other tiers. So scheduling in prem is harder and more important and crucial now, and we’re working in this old system. Throw prem a bone!
• Prem is currently using the old system
• Actually, prem is currently using a slightly worse version of the old system
• Suggestion is to bring prem into line with the rest of highlander eu
• Will make prem more interesting to spectate week on week
• Should make scheduling easier
• Improves league consistency
Cheers.
Basically you mean use an ELO system for Premiership so we don’t know who we’re playing each week until the week begins so you have the good games at the end of the season?
Not a bad idea tbh.
Quoted from Muuki
would definitely make it easier for you to default hunt
[x] told
[ ] not told
I think the Swiss system is overall better but at least in high an issue is that everyone plays different opponents and some have easier paths than others (arguably). For prem I think it’s critical that every team plays vs all teams in the group. I would find it demotivating to play the same opponents twice during regular season. Since there are only 8 teams in the group anyways I’d rather admins manually organising top teams to not play vs each other in earliest weeks maybe but after regular season everyone will meet in the playoffs anyways
Having different (easier/harder) routes to the playoffs is going to be shitty for teams in the 2nd-6th area. It’s already an issue in lower divs, would be even shittier in Prem.
Quoted from Muuki
would definitely make it easier for you to default hunt
<3
We’ve chosen to exclude premiership from the swiss system to alleviate the randomness per matchweek. The teams are playing for a prize pool and prestige, and having some security in the flow of the season showed (in the past) that teams will have an easier time fielding a strong lineup.
An added problem on top of that is that swiss doesn’t work with 8 teams. You need more to provide enough options for the teams to still play other teams within their range. With swiss in a small group you’ll end up having the steamrolls at the end of the season, since the teams that have played each other are closer and the top teams will have to play unmatched teams, who are most likely at the bottom.
If you’re talking about adding premiership to the High tier, that’s a possibility and will get rid of the grey zone between bottom prem and top high. But it doesn’t take away the scheduling problems and exclusivity rules that we’ve set up for prem in the past few seasons.
Bottom line is that anything that promotes competitiveness is welcome, as long as it doesn’t hinder the teams. We’ve chosen for round robin for premiership since that’s the cleanest way to provide a solid road to playoffs.
If we’re going to change formats, I suggest GSL style.
Swiss system is aids as fuck pls no was so happy when they announced prem would be without it
I don’t understand how the steamrolls would be more prominent at the end of the season, but I’ll take your word for it.
But unifying the system for the whole league sounds like a sensible thing to me. Prem isn’t a special snowflake, just the prettiest one.
I dont think it would be wise for prem to switch to swiss system because there aren’t enough teams in prem.
If we would switch to swiss system in prem we would also need more teams in prem which in my opinion would be unwise as well.
Kepp the current system for prem please.
Why would you crowbar Swiss in to a division that is specifically designed to run for 7 weeks and have each team play each other once.
The Swiss system is a compromise based on the fact that it would take too long for everyone to play everyone in the bigger divisions.
You appear to be mad at the scheduling system, but want to bring in an entirely new (and unnecessary) tournament structure to deal with your gripes.
You are using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
I was wondering if you could clarify a few things:
Quoted from kKaltUu
We’ve chosen to exclude premiership from the swiss system to alleviate the randomness per matchweek. The teams are playing for a prize pool and prestige, and having some security in the flow of the season showed (in the past) that teams will have an easier time fielding a strong lineup.
I actually don’t know what this means. Knowing who you’re playing in week 3 causes your team to have a higher chance of fielding a strong team for week 3. What evidence is there of this?
Quoted from kKaltUu
An added problem on top of that is that swiss doesn’t work with 8 teams.
It does work. This sentence is incorrect.
Quoted from kKaltUu
You need more to provide enough options for the teams to still play other teams within their range.
That’s why those 8 are in prem and not scattered throughout the rest of the tiers! This is literally the point in tiers and why there is not having ETF2L as one big Swiss based table!
Quoted from kKaltUu
With swiss in a small group you’ll end up having the steamrolls at the end of the season
Quoted from Lazybear
Since there are only 8 teams in the group anyways I’d rather admins manually organising top teams to not play vs each other in earliest weeks
Quoted from Selek
I don’t understand how the steamrolls would be more prominent at the end of the season, but I’ll take your word for it.
If there are streamrolls, and that’s a big if (which devalues prem to an extent), they’re going to happen in week 2, 4 or 6, or whenever. Not a good reason, for me, but let’s say that would be an issue. Teams are seeded at the start of the season anyway, so this will literally only happen the way you say it will if you seed the teams as such. In other words, what you’re arguing against is perfectly avoidable, by you (Kaltu).
Quoted from kKaltUu
Bottom line is that anything that promotes competitiveness is welcome, as long as it doesn’t hinder the teams.
For the record, you haven’t shown that it would hinder teams.
Quoted from Admirable
Why would you crowbar Swiss in to a division that is specifically designed to run for 7 weeks and have each team play each other once.
The Swiss system is a compromise based on the fact that it would take too long for everyone to play everyone in the bigger divisions.
You appear to be mad at the scheduling system, but want to bring in an entirely new (and unnecessary) tournament structure to deal with your gripes.
You are using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
Admirable I actually liked the old system but the disparity in the league is what I’m talking about here. The removal of wildcards was not ideal either. But anyway, on the point about the design of the league. Remember Season 4? The league was designed so each team played 5 weeks of games because each division had 6 teams. That was the design.
But then in Season 5, the divisions were increased to 8 teams. Oh no! Actually, they just added another 2 weeks of games. Simple! So the whole design aspect is m00t. Again, I liked the old system even though wildcards did fuck us for a few weeks in the past. League consistency is what I’m talking about. Hardly crowbarring! You should work for the Daily Mail m8.
Last edited by b33p,
I agree with b33p it ruins the enjoyment of my TF2 knowing, deep down in my heart, that the divisions with 3 times or more the size of prem have a different way to organise their games.
Of course there would not be rolls in prem, as b33p said it would only devalue the tippy top(py?) of competitive Team Fortress Two in the only format that matters. Never have I witnessed a season of premiership highlander where teams get rolled repeatedly or barely leave a dent in the top two finishers.
As b33p has brought this to my attention I’m honestly wondering if people like kolkata and permzilla even care.
Keep doing gods work b33p i will be there 106.3% supporting you.
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