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is everyone in this thread dense or something

“Teams can be qualified as ‘new’ if none or very few of the lineup at the start of the season or cup are still active and participating. We will look at teams breaking this rule and holds the right to remove them from the league. Any decisions made will be at the full discretion of the admin team”

how fucking difficult is this rule to understand? cos i understand it fine but apparently about 10 people who keep posting in this shit fest can’t understand it and i can’t work out why maybe its me maybe i’m a whole lot smarter than i thought i was, but maybe just maybe you guys are thick and making excuses

Quoted from CanFo

[…]
I think what you mean is that the statistical population this rule can be applied to is 2.6% of all teams (= all premiership teams) and thus does not serve to prove your point – unless you want to show that the number of affected teams is about the same number of teams playing in the premiership but why would that be relevant?

Because not all teams face drastic lineup changes midseason. Therefore the 2.8% Sonny quoted do not prove that the rule is well understood like he’d like to think.

Quoted from CanFo

Reminders are published when it seems necessary. For example, in the news that you linked the reason is explained in the introduction (“We, the AC staff, have been running into a lot of cases where people were reported for reasons such as having few hours logged in TF2 and already being high division” yadda yadda). This does not prove that ETF2L randomly published reminders of random rules in the past, as you make it sound. It only proves that if a certain rule is broken often in a short amount of time and it is likely that more will follow to break this rule, you all get a friendly reminder.

Remind me again, how many teams did just get dropped at the same time?
I’m not trying to make it sound like ETF2L randomly publishes reminders, I’m saying that it seems necessary in this case.

Quoted from CanFo

To solve your puzzle: If the team goes to the admins as soon as it becomes apparent they can’t field many players from their usual lineup (because one player is getting married and invited half the team or whatever) and explains that at this one match date they have to use more subs than usual but will continue to play with the regular lineup after that, the admins would most likely be fine with it and agree that this is the best possible solution to keep the team in the running season.

Exactly, it’s not a problem. Since they didn’t change their main lineup they might not consider this a lineup change at all and therefore not contact an admin.
Does this suddenly make it wrong?
No, the rule just politely asks to contact the admins and that the circumstances will be considered.
Apparently that part went out of the window. If you didn’t contact an admin it’s 100% your fault, the circumstances will be ignored and your team will immediately be dropped.
Refusal to even talk about the case just makes you look bent on dropping teams.

Quoted from CanFo

I’m not sure where you got this from. I do not recall anyone stating teams must contact an admin (but maybe I forgot or read over it). Your interpretation of the rule is correct, in my opinion. The teams technically do not have to contact an admin if they face major roster changes. But if they don’t, they risk getting dropped (and that is very clearly stated in the hijack rule). The ball is in the team leader’s court.

It was quite clearly stated that any team using less than 50% of their original lineup in an official gets dropped instantly, ignoring everything else.
How can you call that “all circumstances will be taken into account”?

The rule says “none or very few of the lineup at the start of the season or cup are still active and participating”.
So if you don’t play one single official you are instantly counted as inactive and not participating? And as soon as they play another match they are active again? Too bad they can’t play another match because their team already got dropped.
Even if they played a scrim on the days before and after they official they are still considered inactive because of a single day. You realise how fucked up that is.

@Sonny:
4 years ago you say?
Please explain this match:
http://etf2l.org/matches/40453/
How could you let me get away with this?

Quoted from CanFo

[…]
The spirit of the rule is (in my mind) that a team’s opponent in week 1 should (more or less) face the same team in week 7 for the sake of fairness and comparability.

CanFo so look on those teams and see how different the roster was from week 1 to week 4, I tried to show that how their team changed and how their line up changed but it was “Brinign individual cases” and I got banned. I ensure you that at least 2 cases are not fair. Or you can just look it up on my awesome steam group linked in first post in previous closed one topic.

Quoted from CanFo

[…]
If you change the applicable population to “all teams that face major roster changes”, then you are right and 100% of the teams facing major roster changes seem to have issues understanding that rule. But that makes as much sense as saying that 100% of all teams who play with 2 medics fail to understand class limits.

Apples and oranges.
Using 2 medics is inherently illegal, roster changes aren’t. You even gave one example yourself.
I’d really like to see the numbers on this one. How many teams were affected by this rule and how many of them contacted admins? That would be the proper statistic on how well the rule is understood/respected.

Quoted from CanFo

What went out the window is the part where the admins got contacted apparently. How can admins take every circumstance into consideration if nobody informed them beforehand?

They can still look at the circumstances after the match but before dropping the team?

Quoted from CanFo

How does this force anyone to contact an admin? Anytime someone breaks a rule he’s got the choice to do it – or not. But he will have to be ready to deal with potential consequences.

What are you trying to say?
The rule doesn’t state you have to contact an admin, yet if you don’t you get dropped.
Where does the rule state that?
How is that breaking the rule if the same thing would’ve been allowed if you contacted an admin?
The choice is not breaking a rule or not breaking a rule but contacting an admin anyway. Yet somehow not breaking a rule becomes illegal if you haven’t contacted an admin?

Most of the time this rule takes effect (people being away for one single day) the teams don’t even realise that according to an internal rule that they have no knowledge of, they’d be breaking a rule. How can they be expected to contact an admin about that? Do you want everyone to contact an admin before every match to notify them that they don’t plan on breaking any rules today?

As my long posts are being ignored:

Intention of rule =/= rule

You can ban or remove people based on an intention or your decision it’s your league. But it really seemes out of touch don’t you think? Stick to what’s in the rules not the thing you were thinking about when the rule was made.

Also breaking the rule affects only one game, if you can’t field a team you only get deafult loss if you have 1 new player too much doesn’t mean next game it will be like that. You don’t have to remove teams you can give them minor warning or major, take points from them, when they play another game like that then you can remove them. And it’s simple.

Quoted from Hajdzik

As my long posts are being ignored:

Intention of rule =/= rule

You can ban or remove people based on an intention or your decision it’s your league. But it really seemes out of touch don’t you think? Stick to what’s in the rules not the thing you were thinking about when the rule was made.

Also breaking the rule affects only one game, if you can’t field a team you only get deafult loss if you have 1 new player too much doesn’t mean next game it will be like that. You don’t have to remove teams you can give them minor warning or major, take points from them, when they play another game like that then you can remove them. And it’s simple.

Please stop saying someone got banned. Nobody got banned, the teams just got dropped i.e. removed from the running season. I don’t know why this bothers me so much…

Breaking the rule does not only affect one game. It affects the whole season because in that one game a different team was playing, which is unfair towards all other teams.

Violating class limits doesn’t become legal by contacting an admin.
Roster changes do.
That’s the important difference.

I just said the numbers would’ve been interesting, I didn’t demand anything. There’s also no way to tell if a team didn’t know about the rule or chose to ignore it.

Quoted from CanFo

Maybe we just disagree on this but I do believe that would be unfair towards the opponents of the team who did play a completely different team.

Have you looked at how it was handled?
The result stays. The result against a team that is considered a different team and got dropped because of that stays.
And the team who would’ve played the dropped team in the next week gets a bye. 6 points for free.
That’s unfair towards every team that didn’t get a bye.

Quoted from CanFo

I am merely asking why you said that it was stated people absolutely have to contact an admin because I may have read over that or because it was simply not said by any admin.
Not contacting an admin is not the rule violation here, by the way. That is completely optional. But at the danger of repeating myself: If you break a rule you may face consequences.

You still don’t understand.
If a team thinks they aren’t breaking the rule or aren’t aware of it why would they contact an admin?
If we contacted an admin we wouldn’t have got dropped. We didn’t break a rule, so why did we have to face the consequences?

Dropping the teams no questions asked is by far the worst option for both the teams and the league. It’s not that hard to sort out communication on the matchpage. Especially if you have a whole week to do so. Ask them to explain the roster changes and if they are permanent or just temporarily for that one match. And the best thing is, since they have play another official you can actually see if their old lineup is back. So you can just wait until they’ve played their next official. If they violate the rule again just change it to a default loss and drop them before scheduling the next week’s matches. Same result, except if you put a notice on the matchpage, there’s actually a chance they might be able to explain themselves, avoid dropping and save you the necessity of byes. Everyone wins, with just one post on the matchpage.

Holy shit, this is really a 3 sided Argument between Canfo, Setsul and Hajdzik, this isn’t going anywhere, you’re just arguing with each other, add each other and argue privately, I stopped bothering reading walls of texts because this is just pure cancer now and you’re practically not getting supported by anyone else, it’s just you 3 bitching about something that was already resolved long time ago

Add each other and stop spamming all this repetitive nonsense…

http://i.imgur.com/nhOdL5f.jpg