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Quoted from Hajdzik

Also for something that was posted in this thread, I would be happy to send application for an admin, but you know someone who shares conversation with admins shouldn’t be one. That path is closed for me. Also it is really sad how players don’t have anyone in the opposition in the admin teams. Admin team really lacks in people with different aproaches and it really looks like you have only one voice.

Sorry for little offtopic but I think it’s not that much offrail.

thats a good thing, the admins should agree with each other, imagine how trash it would be if all the admins did was disagree with each other literally no decisions would ever be made, also please read what people have put before making another incredible shit post because i read your post above and literally everything you questioned has been answered, several times in some cases

Quoted from birdy

thats a good thing, the admins should agree with each other

This is so wrong it hurts

Please stick to the topic, shouldn’t start that offtop, like CanFo said admins are allowed to do exceptions and I don’t think the punishment is accurate to the crime. And on the addiditon the rule is just so poorly and unclear. It doesn’t force admins to remove the teams, this is just pure admins decision.

The rule itself is bad, but admins execution of this rule is even worse in my eyes.

There was example about football teams in the previous topic and I didn’t have occasion to answer to that, in football you register your team but you can get new players into team they can be subs, they can be regular players, but in some laegues at least you can register players for competition before match, or add only few after season starts, there is ton of rules. ETF2L allows to add players through whole season and yet there is rule that added people during the roster should be limited and even if you follow the rule in 6 league games if you use one too much player who was added after season start, you’re risking removing from competition just by that one game. It’s not adding people to roster being rule breaking but using them in official, so there is an option to give teams minus points, even give the enemy deafult win in that game but removing from competition just based on one game?

Ye public voice should be a thing when it comes to some kind of decision, but admins shouldn’t be forbidden from showing their own opinion. Seems so just not good if there is not even one admin thinking or stating that rule is bad, they just keep saying we(players) don’t understand it.(it is just almost like you would say we’re stupid, ducky even said that I am special) And obviously players are divided with their opinions so you would expect the admins could be as well. But there is just one voice in that matter.

Raf I don’t believe your point is right, if you read the rule itself the rule on paper is something different from what admins are saying in this case.

Admins keep saying how much work it would be to babysit every team. But you only have to “babysit” the 4 teams you chose to drop, would it really be that much extra work to contact those leaders and understand what went on.

None of those teams stacked their teams with higher div players did they (if they did I imagine that would have been the first things admins in this thread mentioned)? If not then it seems they never actually violated the spirit of the rule, just the wording of it and some discretion shouldn’t be too much to ask.

Quoted from Setsul

Less than 2.6% of the teams have been affected by rule 1.8.1 in Season 20.
Does that mean not many teams were affected by that rule?
Guess again, rule 1.8.1 is “SourceTV demos for Premiership matches are mandatory”.
Only 2.6% of the teams can be affected by that rule anyway.

I think what you mean is that the statistical population this rule can be applied to is 2.6% of all teams (= all premiership teams) and thus does not serve to prove your point – unless you want to show that the number of affected teams is about the same number of teams playing in the premiership but why would that be relevant?

Quoted from Setsul

Don’t act like there were never any reminders about “obvious” rules in the newsposts.
http://etf2l.org/2014/12/18/christmas-vacation/

Reminders are published when it seems necessary. For example, in the news that you linked the reason is explained in the introduction (“We, the AC staff, have been running into a lot of cases where people were reported for reasons such as having few hours logged in TF2 and already being high division” yadda yadda). This does not prove that ETF2L randomly published reminders of random rules in the past, as you make it sound. It only proves that if a certain rule is broken often in a short amount of time and it is likely that more will follow to break this rule, you all get a friendly reminder.

Quoted from Setsul

Oh and I can do statistics too, here’s a nice scenario:
A team plays all of their matches except one with their full lineup. In that one match they can only field 4 of their main players. 92% of the season a main lineup player played, but they still get dropped if they added their subs after the season started.
Even better, they have added 5 subs after they season started, but they are aware of the hijacking rule. Since they would have to use all 5 subs, which would get them dropped they just kick one of the subs and use him as a default merc. After the match they add him to the roster again so he gets the medal.

To solve your puzzle: If the team goes to the admins as soon as it becomes apparent they can’t field many players from their usual lineup (because one player is getting married and invited half the team or whatever) and explains that at this one match date they have to use more subs than usual but will continue to play with the regular lineup after that, the admins would most likely be fine with it and agree that this is the best possible solution to keep the team in the running season.

Quoted from Setsul

And stop acting like teams have to contact the admins about lineup changes:
“If your team is facing extreme lineup changes please contact an admin.”
It says “please” not “must” and “extreme lineup changes” yet you’re acting like every time should’ve known that they must contact an admin if they want to play a match with less than 50% of their main players, even if their main lineup hasn’t changed at all.

I’m not sure where you got this from. I do not recall anyone stating teams must contact an admin (but maybe I forgot or read over it). Your interpretation of the rule is correct, in my opinion. The teams technically do not have to contact an admin if they face major roster changes. But if they don’t, they risk getting dropped (and that is very clearly stated in the hijack rule). The ball is in the team leader’s court.

Quoted from Sonny Black

[…]
Is it really that hard to understand? This isnt about simply monitoring the teams. We cannot tell when teams will use more than 5 new players in an official, until after the official has happened and at that point the kid has fallen into the well already. The only way to make sure this doesnt happen would be to ask every single team every single week what their starting lineup will be and then rely on that (no subs/mercs needed). And that wont happen.

Rules doesn’t force you to remove them from competition right away? Also new players are those added after you get application from team, day the tables golive? You can’t babysit them, but you can use common sense.

Also major changes: Adding few players before even week one starts. You should change that to that you can add players before week 1. Because it’s just plain stupid.

Quoted from Sonny Black

[…]
Is it really that hard to understand? This isnt about simply monitoring the teams. We cannot tell when teams will use more than 5 new players in an official, until after the official has happened and at that point the kid has fallen into the well already. The only way to make sure this doesnt happen would be to ask every single team every single week what their starting lineup will be and then rely on that (no subs/mercs needed). And that wont happen.

Not really, once you have decided that these teams are candidates for dropping, you can just make some small effort to figure out if they actually violated the spirit of the rule before you take any action. You don’t need to pre-emptively monitor every single team in the league.
If the game has already happened then you can easily change it to a default loss, the other team would be getting a bye anyway right?

I’d just rather admins gave a bit more consideration to the intention of the rule. I assume the rule is in place primarily to prevent sandbagging after the divs are released. But do any of the admins actually think that’s what happened in any of these cases?