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Switching over to the NA scoring system
Created 14th March 2013 @ 16:41
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NA scoring system has two big drawbacks:
– one map instead of two
It is more all-in, win or lose, way. No more ‘we are better at map X, but they have advantage at map Y’.
– scoring
When you are playing all game on one map, you have it clear and handled by config – windifference (or winlimit etc.) keeps track of the moment when game is won. With switchning sides at halftime you have to keep score manually. Let’s say team X won 3 times in first halftime. In second halftime they need to score 2 wins – while the other team needs 5 wins, no config or settings will solve this automatically, you’d need a plugin.
Ofc, you can do it manually, but that is a bit messy..
Quoted from r_a_k
NA scoring system has two big drawbacks:
– one map instead of two
…
– scoring
…
Playing one map a week can be seen as a drawback or an advantage, only 1 map to practice in a week etc.
If the Yanks can manage to count to 5, even over 2 ‘halves’, then I feel very sure us Euros can manage it too!
Quoted from AcidReniX
The reason why you don’t see as many stalemates in US tf2, is not because of the rules, but because of their mentality. If they have an advantage, they push it, meaning the team holding CP3, push their advantage of having more capture points to fall back on if something goes wrong.
Can’t you see that the reason they have that mentality is BECAUSE of the rules. Why would anyone ‘learn’ to turtle when you HAVE to get to 5 rounds to win? Of course they push any little advantage, why wouldn’t they, it’s a race to 5 rounds not a ‘see-who-can-score-most-in-half-an-hour’, it’s a very different mind set.
Last edited by Monkeh,
Wasn’t difference of 5 added to eliminate 30 min play with weak opponents and scores like 20 – 0 in the first place?
The only thing NA rules are going to do here is confuse the newbies.
Last edited by Mors Immortalis,
Quoted from Monkeh
[…]
Playing one map a week can be seen as a drawback or an advantage, only 1 map to practice in a week etc.
If the Yanks can manage to count to 5, even over 2 ‘halves’, then I feel very sure us Euro’s can manage it too!
[…]
Can’t you see that the reason they have that mentality is BECAUSE of the rules. Why would anyone ‘learn’ to turtle when you HAVE to get to 5 rounds to win? Of course they push any little advantage, why wouldn’t they, it’s a race to 5 rounds not a ‘see-who-can-score-most-in-half-an-hour’, it’s a very different mind set.
The American mentality is aggressive because they like guns and want to kill more people
Quoted from Spike Himself
That’s the whole point – in our current ruleset, individual rounds don’t matter.
No more than scoring a goal in football matters.
Quoted from atmo
[…]
The American mentality is aggressive because they like guns and want to kill more people
Should look at them go when we replace capture points with oil barrels.
Quoted from Monkeh
[…]
Playing one map a week can be seen as a drawback or an advantage, only 1 map to practice in a week etc.
If the Yanks can manage to count to 5, even over 2 ‘halves’, then I feel very sure us Euros can manage it too!
[…]
Can’t you see that the reason they have that mentality is BECAUSE of the rules. Why would anyone ‘learn’ to turtle when you HAVE to get to 5 rounds to win? Of course they push any little advantage, why wouldn’t they, it’s a race to 5 rounds not a ‘see-who-can-score-most-in-half-an-hour’, it’s a very different mind set.
Monkeh, explain to me, what difference does it make if we play two halftimes with (X time or Y total wins) or one map with (X time or Y total wins)? It is exactly the same when it comes to turtling, because team can also score a point and wait for time.
In case you don’t believe me, let me quote from UGC page:
The winning team is the first to score 5 TOTAL round wins or the highest score after two halves of up to 30 min each, whichever comes first. The first half will end when one team scores 4 round wins or the timelimit of 30 mins is reached; the second half ends when a team scores the 5th TOTAL round win, or when the second 30 min timelimit is reached. OT: A tied total score results in an Overtime (OT) round, which is played to first round score.
see? you CAN win a round and happily try to turtle the same way you are so afraid of, you just have to do it twice.
Also, they have switching sides after 4th point in game to 5. Not after the third, which would make more sense..
ps. as for the single map per match being advantage – perhaps it is another way in 6vs6 but after playing HL in UGC, I have to say it can be totally anticlimactic to get whole week for practice etc, then finish the official game in 4x 5minutes. Having it our (European) way makes whole thing more.. satisfying.
Last edited by r_a_k,
Quoted from r_a_k
Monkeh, explain to me, what difference does it make if we play two halftimes…
As Kaidus has so eloquently put it earlier in the thread, the round timer prevents that from happening. Hold last for 6 or 7 minutes, (or w/e it is), and it gets re-set to mid. Who’s gonna want to do that for an hour?
Those pesky stats that others have mentioned above show no-one does.
Quoted from r_a_k
Also, they have switching sides after 4th point in game to 5. Not after the third, which would make more sense..
I think it’s the fourth round, so score of 2-2, 3-1 or 4-0, before the switch, might be wrong. Makes sense if it is imo.
Quoted from r_a_k
I have to say it can be totally anticlimactic to get whole week for practice etc, then finish the official game in 4x 5minutes. Having it our (European) way makes whole thing more.. satisfying.
Yeah, agreed. I feel organising 2 maps a week might prove very difficult with getting 18 people online from 3 different teams shortly after each other as well.
That’s the biggest problem for me, the potential damb squib matches and casts that are literally over in 10 minutes.
Counting to 5 I feel, is a minor hurdle.
Quoted from r_a_k
it can be totally anticlimactic to get whole week for practice etc, then finish the official game in 4x 5minutes. Having it our (European) way makes whole thing more.. satisfying.
Surely that just means that either you or your opponent are in the wrong div?
Quoted from ilike2spin
If admirable thinks its better we should do it. Would also stop harbleu being shit in the last game of the evening.
How do teams do pcws over in America? Would we just do 1 map at 20 and 1 map at 21?
Why?
PCWs are for practice, just do timelimit 60 windifference 0 if you only want to play one map per pcw. If you want to mix it up you can do 2 x timelimit 30.
@Monkeh
Let me quote again: “The first half will end when one team scores 4 round wins or the timelimit of 30 mins is reached”. So no, not on 2-2, or 3-1, because then wording would be “The first half will end after 4th round or the timelimit of 30 mins is reached”.
Their cfg for this is:
mp_windifference “0”
mp_winlimit “4”
mp_maxrounds “0”
mp_timelimit “30”
mp_tournament “1”
mp_tournament_stopwatch “0”
While you’d like to have mp_maxrounds 4.
When I was reffering to turtling, I ment that it is enough to simply set longer time for round, for example equal to american 2xhalftime (60 instead of current). That way you don’t have to play with halftimes etc, and get benefit of forcing agressive play.
edit: mindfart correction ;)
Last edited by r_a_k,
To be perfectly honest the whole half time thing is another one of those minor points, it’s the race to 5 that is the important bit I feel, not the structure of how to implement it.
The potential for an hour long match on a single map means a 5 minute break at some point is a good idea, but only if the round goes past the half hour mark I suppose.
Can’t we tweak it a bit? Play half an hour and if no-one has 5 rounds then take a 5 minute break and then finish off after that?
Not too bothered about changing sides either tbh, so many people will moan about aiming at their own team after the change.
I know we wanted to unify the rules but when and how ‘half time’ works isn’t going to be a major difference
That’s what I’ve ment.. mp_timelimit 60; mp_winlimit 5 gives you the same attitude one has in NA scoring (thing to remember though would be keeping winlimit as the goal, not windifference)
Last edited by r_a_k,
First to 3 or half an hour played signals the half time, not first to 4.
EDIT: This is ESEA rules, which are the standard – UGC is a separate and much smaller and lower skill league.
Last edited by Sideshow,
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