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Created 14th October 2012 @ 16:10
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Quoted from Buffalo Bill
[…]
Competitive and organised pub are not the same, and who says I’m offended?
[…]
“highers”? And no, it doesn’t. Making it more random based off something you have no way of knowing for sure barring a relatively excessive amount of work doesn’t raise the skill ceiling. The Medic using the Vita-Saw doesn’t have to do anything he doesn’t already do, the Vita-Saw’s buff is passive and all the enemy has to do is to have their Spy switch to Medic disguise -> melee weapon and he can tell whether he has it. Not difficult, but very time consuming to do without it being easily circumvented.
We seems like have different understanding of “organized pub”. You see it as basic calls “spy is pyro” and skill a bit higher than on Valve servers. I see it as actually organizing a team, playing on equal therms, inventing map rules, removing every game based pseudo-random events (crits, spread) etc.
I am not really into Highlander, but I doubt there is a huge impact on the game with or without uber prediction. Other than that, spy can always check uber percentage if friendly medic decide to wear any alternative to Solemn Vow.
Quoted from CrashSite
you can’t push past a wrangled sentry without it,
Actually you can (killing engi and spamming works, especially using direct hit).
Quoted from irfx
[…]
Actually you can (killing engi and spamming works, especially using direct hit).
Extrapolating from that:
“it is very hard to push against a wrangled sentry setup in a defended position, that has a heavy, pyro and medic near by, especially if they know what they are doing.”
That better?
Quoted from CrashSite
“it is very hard to push against a wrangled sentry setup in a defended position, that has a heavy, pyro and medic near by, especially if they know what they are doing.”
That better?
Actually you can (killing engi, heavy, pyro and medic and spamming works, especially using direct hit).
Quoted from Monkeh
[…]
The TF2 wiki mentions nothing of this buff to uber build time. If the uber builds faster with vita saw AND you get to keep charge then definitely ban it, that’s bullshit.
I hope you are joking.
I just said that to charging 100% kritz with +25% charge rate takes the same time to charge 80% uber with regular rate assuming you have 20% from the vita.
Quoted from CrashSite
Extrapolating from that:
“it is very hard to push against a wrangled sentry setup in a defended position, that has a heavy, pyro and medic near by, especially if they know what they are doing.”
That better?
It is hard – yes. It is impossible – no, not even close.
Quoted from Carlos Kaiser
[…]
I hope you are joking.
I just said that to charging 100% kritz with +25% charge rate takes the same time to charge 80% uber with regular rate assuming you have 20% from the vita.
I fail to see how that has anything to do with anything, you can still run vitasaw with kritz and all that is irrelevant then.
Please stop saying that Vita-saw makes über timings random, as that is not true in any form what-so-ever. That statement is incredibly incorrect and misleading. It makes it slightly harder to count, sure. But harder is not equal to random, and since you can at any point in time check whether vita-saw is being used (and no, it does not take 10 seconds to check, and it’s not hard or bothersome to check either…) or not, it’s not random. Besides, if a medic puts vita-saw on at any point of the game, he/she is very unlikely to unequip it as it’d most likely cost 20% über to do so.
And no, the 10 hp loss does not change the way a medic has to play. Everything that one-shot you before still one-shoots you. Everything that didn’t one-shoot you before still doesn’t. Those 10 hp does not make a huge difference, at least not in my opinion.
However, that being said, I’m still in favour of banning the vita-saw. It’s an incredibly boring weapon and it gives the team a clear advantage over any other melee weapon, so not using that unlock puts your own team at a disadvantage, pigeon-holing good medics into using it. Banning this unlock creates a more diverse and more exciting medic play in highlander.
Quoted from Carlos Kaiser
I hope you are joking.
I just said that to charging 100% kritz with +25% charge rate takes the same time to charge 80% uber with regular rate assuming you have 20% from the vita.
I wasn’t no, but I read your post with wrong inflection I think. Yes you are correct-ish, (5% meh), so doesn’t that mean a vita saw using medic who also equips kritz HAS to be countered with the enemy medic using vita saw as well, otherwise you’ll never have uber in time, like ever, (unless you get a slice with the uber saw of course).
This is bad
Last edited by Monkeh,
The vitasaw makes highlander games a little faster and a little more fun for the medic. its still a pain if they drop uber, it doesn’t stop that part. Banning it is daft, it makes games better and is balanced.
Also the argument where you just dont know how much uber the other medic has to yourself is bull, its only 20% and in highlander its not like mexican stand-offs with tiny uber advantages making all the difference, it just doesn’t play like that. It takes seconds to get 20% uber and on maps that are large where meds are often far from eachother. Anyone who thinks it doesn’t hasn’t played much HL.
Last edited by b0nes,
As a Medic main (6v6) I agree on banning the vita-saw. I have always felt that “shit I MUST use this weapon or I will fall to uber disadvantage”. I rarely had to use other melees than vita-saw but I always wanted to try the other saws like the crusader medic set: nice regen for koth or the Solemn vow to peek enemy health and mostly ubersaw, to drain a nice 25% from the failspy. And yes, I am meleeing WAY more in highlander when playing medic than 6v6 mainly because of the spies that attempt to stab me (I dont feel as confident sawing a scout or soldier though, I let that dirty job for the rest of the team)
Removing the vita-saw will make the medic class a bit more fun to play as the must-have-vitasaw is no longer permitted.
Quoted from TheSucker
Please stop saying that Vita-saw makes über timings random, as that is not true in any form what-so-ever. That statement is incredibly incorrect and misleading. It makes it slightly harder to count, sure. But harder is not equal to random, and since you can at any point in time check whether vita-saw is being used (and no, it does not take 10 seconds to check, and it’s not hard or bothersome to check either…) or not, it’s not random. Besides, if a medic puts vita-saw on at any point of the game, he/she is very unlikely to unequip it as it’d most likely cost 20% über to do so.
And no, the 10 hp loss does not change the way a medic has to play. Everything that one-shot you before still one-shoots you. Everything that didn’t one-shoot you before still doesn’t. Those 10 hp does not make a huge difference, at least not in my opinion.
However, that being said, I’m still in favour of banning the vita-saw. It’s an incredibly boring weapon and it gives the team a clear advantage over any other melee weapon, so not using that unlock puts your own team at a disadvantage, pigeon-holing good medics into using it. Banning this unlock creates a more diverse and more exciting medic play in highlander.
Direct hit one-shots you at close range.
Quoted from Monkeh
[…]
I wasn’t no, but I read your post with wrong inflection I think. Yes you are correct-ish, (5% meh), so doesn’t that mean a vita saw using medic who also equips kritz HAS to be countered with the enemy medic using vita saw as well, otherwise you’ll never have uber in time, like ever, (unless you get a slice with the uber saw of course).
This is bad
I counted the 5%, they charge at the same time actually, it’s valve math.
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Ubercharge#Accumulating_charge
Medigun – 2.50000%/1.25000% uber in second
Kritz – 3.12500%/1.56250% uber in second
80/2.5=32, 80/1.25=64
100/3.125=32, 100/1.56250 =64
Can you stun ubered enemies with the sandman? Haven’t tested it but if it does it deserves a ban.
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