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Rule revisions (mercs and penalties)
Created 24th June 2012 @ 18:41
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In the aftermath of our little Decerto – Punchline happening, I figured: Why not go the official route and actually challenge the current ruleset? I have two points; one general point about penalties, and a specific point about the merc rule:
1. Have a clear and set penalty for a rulebreak in your rules. For instance:
“2.1.2 Minimum of 5 players needed to play a match
Teams need at least 5 players to play a scheduled 6on6 match. A team can ask their opponent to allow a merc (maximum: 2) to play for their team.”
Where does it state that breaking this means a default loss? If a penalty isn’t set in the rules, then the only thing we may assume is that the penalty is at the admin’s discretion. However in actuality, there seems to be no leeway in the severeness of the penalty when breaking this rule (it’s always a default loss, regardless of circumstances).
If you want to consistently enforce penalties for rulebreaks, those penalties MUST be in the ruleset. (especially for a rulebreak that makes no victims, like our merc rulebreak)
2. Change the merc rule to 4 mercs if opponent agrees.
People are not playing in this league wanting to go through a season as a mix. People don’t like using mercs in general. Allowing 2 mercs max. is completely arbitrary. As long as the opponent agrees, what’s the problem? Changing this rule will not turn ETF2L into chaos, because teams will keep wanting to play as teams, and opponents will deny mercs if a team is trying to abuse this rule.
Thoughts?
etf2l admins are nazis who think of rules as shit goes on so its no point really
just get over it
I agree with the penality things. For each rule, the rule himself must say the penality you occur if you break it, otherwise it is not a rule, in general.
The dault loss, by the way, seems an equal punishment for not to play in the agreed date, but I guess this is not the point obviously.
Don’t completely agree with the merc rules. The point you raise is valid, but 4 seems too much to me. Why not 5 then? Yes, no one like using mercs, but on the other hand this is supposed to be a league where you play AS A TEAM.
I’d rather set it to 3 then, allowing 1 by default like it was with HL, unless an admin deny (if you think the merc the enemy tea want to use is too strong you could ask an admin on qn to deny it).
Last edited by Leif,
why would you want to play against a team ( cant even call it a team tbh!) consisting of 2 players + 4 mercs? doesnt make sense, maybe 3 is a reasonable amount but 4 is over the top.
anyways dont play in a league if you cant field enough players to play in it
If a team can’t even field 4 players (4 players + 2 mercs) they shouldn’t be rewarded by being allowed to use even more mercs. The game is Team Fortress 2 and not Mix Fortress 4 Mercs
Following the merc argument:
Person A: 2 mercs is too low and arbitrary, it should be a 4 merc limit.
Person B: Why stop at 4 mercs? That’s arbitrary too. Why not 6?
Person A: Obviously 6 mercs is ridiculous, because then in what way are you playing the named team you’re supposed to be playing against? There should be some minimum requirement of rostered players representing their team.
Person B: OK, what would be reasonable to count for a team being “represented”? One rostered member? Half? A majority? Everyone, with no mercs at all?
Person A: One is too low, that’s not much different from 6 mercs. No mercs is too harsh, RL gets in the way. Half is still a bit iffy, it seems like there should be more official rostered team members than mercs to really count as playing against that team.
Person B: OK. What’s a majority in a team of 6?
Person A: Four.
Person B: Right. So two mercs.
Person A: Yes.
Person B: OK, agreed.
Person A: Good… heywaitaminute!
Top teams seem to really hate having backup players, whilst if you look at this situation isn’t such a bad idea after all.
Quoted from skeej
People are not playing in this league wanting to go through a season as a mix. People don’t like using mercs in general. Allowing 2 mercs max. is completely arbitrary.
Based on the little experience I gathered during my time as admin, this is not at all true, unfortunately.
The penalty for playing with more than 2 mercs could be written down for clarity, but it’s easily considered as “not showing up on match day” since your lineup isn’t valid for an official game, which is default loss.
Between allowing 2 mercs, possibility of backups and wildcards and up to 2 default loss allowed before dropping, there’s enough room for teams to make it through a season.
Quoted from rytis
why would you want to play against a team ( cant even call it a team tbh!) consisting of 2 players + 4 mercs?
That’s the whole point of the “if opponent agrees” part, and that’s why changing it to 4 shouldn’t be a problem at all.
Quoted from Xerofset
If a team can’t even field 4 players (4 players + 2 mercs) they shouldn’t be rewarded by being allowed to use even more mercs. The game is Team Fortress 2 and not Mix Fortress 4 Mercs
Same answer for you: judging by your opinion you would not allow a team to use that amount of mercs. As a team you can deny your opponents the usage of more mercs.
Quoted from Spike Himself
[…]
Based on the little experience I gathered during my time as admin, this is not at all true, unfortunately.
Note how I say “People don’t like using mercs in general.”. In general means that most teams play this league normally. I played a handful of seasons now, and I think most of my officials were without mercs on both sides.
And even if this happens in some of the weirder divs, any of the teams can deny other teams to use mercs.
Quoted from Ran
The penalty for playing with more than 2 mercs could be written down for clarity, but it’s easily considered as “not showing up on match day” since your lineup isn’t valid for an official game, which is default loss.
Actually, that’s not true. What happens if at match date a team shows up, but the other team doesn’t? Nothing. The team that is on the server, CAN request a default win if they wish, but can also just be sportsmen and not request a default win. In the case of using 3 mercs, admins assign the default loss/win without anyone asking for it.
Between allowing 2 mercs, possibility of backups and wildcards and up to 2 default los[s allowed before dropping, there’s enough room for teams to make it through a season.
*same argument about opinion and that you’re free to deny opponents the occasion of using multiple mercs*. Also, locked rosters and disabled wildcards don’t really help in the last league week.
Hmmm….
if you can’t even get more than 3 people for a game, then why bother to sign up? I can see teams having technical difficulties in games, I had games where 2 of our people lag out during the match and we need to get 2 mercs, but that is rare. It is an 8 week season, it isn’t that long to just stay together finish the season.
Last edited by Hildreth,
You lost, deal with it.
Why allow it in the rules if noone is gonna allow 4 mercs anyway. Useless rule is useless
Last edited by Xerofset,
So many close-minded people stating their opinions in this thread… I’m worried about your cause, skeej.
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