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Why is still thread still alive?

Quoted from Spike Himself

Dodging and positioning underrated so much :(

Ooh, ooh look at me changing the game by hiding behind this corner…wow this is sooo much fun, I can’t even see the awesome frags my team are getting because I’m hiding at the back of the fight, but it’s super funtimes ‘cos I managed to dodge the flanking scout…

rly?

I mean, don’t get me wrong, I do enjoy playing med, but it can never be as fun as a combat class.

Quoted from Kaneco

[…]

http://files.sharenator.com/dont_know_what_the_fuck_is_going_on_RE_Well_guys_Blizzard_has_done_it_again-s351x359-173897.jpg

It’s really like they want to ban FUN, right?

I knew you guys were attached to vanilla, that’s ok, but so much to the point were you would want to entirely remove med unlocks it’s entirely a whole new level of stupidity.

Also, Americans have a shitload of unlocks allowed and it’s not like they run around with direct hit or the huntsman every opportunity they got, 99% of them are situational. And to the 1% that are used regularly or have passive effects like the gunboats and the boston basher, those are there because they make the game more interesting.

if you want the kind of fun that you are looking for, a competitive league is not the right place then buddy. HL is our version of providing you with the entire game with almost everything unlocked and every class used. I honestly don’t understand why you stopped talking exciting and started talking FUN. a skilled game is exciting. SKILLED game.

Quoted from Kaneco

[…]

And an exciting game is a FUN game… http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-21_jyYvyZxo/T16-fJ9X6oI/AAAAAAAADqI/HaJaKxYuxfg/s1600/themoreyouknow.jpg

If you are playing videogames and you’re not having fun you’re obviously doing something wrong.

Whats fun to you may not be fun to someone else (as is clearly illustrated in your discussion with Dawn). So trying to decide who has more fun under specific conditions seems to be a rather pointless waste of time.

Unlocks add a lot to the game.
The top few teams don’t want them (theory: They are the best at the game now, and don’t want to give any opportunities for a new way to play the game because they might lose their throne).
Most other teams don’t care either way.

ETF2L makes their decisions based off what the top 18-24 players out of around say out of 300 active players want. Those players left the league because they didn’t get their own way, and ETF2L changed the rules to get those 18-24 players back.

In short, there’s no point in discussing unlocks until the current top tier level players have moved on, and a more open minded group come into their place. If you want unlocks, simply back the highlander format which is gaining huge popularity and is also ETF2L’s largest active league, while the 6v6 teams watch their game style gradually die because people are bored of playing and watching the same game over and over again.

Quoted from AcidReniX

while the 6v6 teams watch their game style gradually die because people are bored of playing and watching the same game over and over again.

I fail to see why allowing equalizer, bonk, boston basher etc would not be boring as well.

Quoted from AcidReniX

Unlocks add a lot to the game.
The top few teams don’t want them (theory: They are the best at the game now, and don’t want to give any opportunities for a new way to play the game because they might lose their throne).

That is actually a fair point in favor of the top teams. A certain (meta)game is no more than the sum of its rules and mechanics. If you change those rules and mechanics too fundamentally, you approach a point where it’s not really the same game anymore. Even slight changes can affect the core of a (meta)game.

A good example is (real) fighting sports. If we look at boxing, kickboxing, muay thai, pancrase, etc, some of the these sports are only slightly different (yes kicking, no kicking, yes grappling, no grappling, yes elbows, no elbows etc) but we see that players do not easily transition between these variations without elaborate intensive training.

Changing the game too much is basically making all the effort put in by the higher level players wasted. (this is an exaggeration but you get my point)

In short, there’s no point in discussing unlocks until the current top tier level players have moved on, and a more open minded group come into their place. If you want unlocks, simply back the highlander format which is gaining huge popularity and is also ETF2L’s largest active league, while the 6v6 teams watch their game style gradually die because people are bored of playing and watching the same game over and over again.

Like I said in my first post in this topic, the “unlock panel” is a perfectly viable way of dealing with things. And yourself being bored with 6v6 seems to make you a bit biased in this manner. The variation that TF2 offers in terms of classes and loadouts already exceeds that of any other competitive fps. I really don’t see why the current way we play the game is inherently “boring”. Point is, Valve targets this game at pub players and pub mechanics, and that’s what the unlocks are “balanced” for. And even for pub a lot of them are badly balanced, considering the sometimes radical changes Valve brings to certain weapons, or great outcries from the community to fix stuff (recently again with the phlogistonator, enforcer, and some others).

I’m not trying to create a straw man argument (some unlocks are not fit for 6v6, therefore all unlocks are bad). I stated in my earlier post that unlocks that don’t change the way we played 6v6 for ages too much could definitely be re-reviewed for whitelisting, but this should be done in a very careful manner. (PANEL PANEL PANEL)

I’m bored of 6v6 now, but I was campaigning this for years before I was bored of it. Me being bored now is because the game is too repetitive. I cast games of TF2, and there’s nothing new in the game I see. No one is coming up with anything new, it’s all about the execution of meta game strategies now, nothing more. It’s fine… if that’s how people want to play, then it’s how people want to play, I’m not going to argue with that. All I am saying is by adding more to the game, you encourage people to have to think on their feet, develop ‘on the fly’ strategies and counters, and it tests their decision making and mental capabilities far more than the current game has to offer.

The point you make about changing the metagame does make perfect sense, and I accept it as a valid argument. It’s just a difference of opinion which is fine. I personally want to keep the game as fresh as possible, for as long as possible. Unlike in other sports, FPS gamers retain their general gameplay skills, and move to a different game after a few years, when something new comes out. The general controlling mechanics remain very close to what they currently play, but other things change. I think TF2 is an awesome game, and I think by adding select unlocks to the game, it keeps the game fresh, and prolongs the life of the game, keeps players and spectators entertained after they have exhausted almost all of the current gameplay possibilities in the standard game, instead of it just becoming a routine.

And Koeitje, that’s dumb. It doesn’t lower the skill ceiling, if anything, it massively raises it. There are more strategies to master, more situations that can occur, more viable class selections to run. Something like the gunboats might make it easier to jump onto and kill a medic, but then that in turn makes it _harder_ to deal with. A lower skilled team might decide to run TDH in order to stop these type of bombs, but they will suffer in the lack of splash damage. A higher skilled team might be able to just deal with these easier bombs without having to sacrifice this splash damage, and thus gain their deserved advantage. People only see things one way, and it’s usually the way that personally effects them. I’m not innocent of this either, but I at least try to present my argument in the hope that someone comes up with some good responses to make me say, “O.k, it’s not a good idea”.

The current skill ceiling currently revolves around having a basic understanding of the simple game mechanics, and having good hand/eye co-ordination, and that’s about how much depth this game has left.

It’s still entertaining, but it won’t be for long. I just think it could be even better still. Just my opinion, as always!