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Meh, keep it banned.

Gimme market gardener, now THERE is a balanced unlock.

Disclaimer: I’m not representing the admin team with this post.

What’s the point of unbanning it? If as most of you claim it doesn’t affect gameplay, why is it then such a huge issue?

The only thing unbanning it will do is that it modifies vanilla+medlocks into vanilla+medlocks+original. It’s my understanding that ‘we’ all wanted vanilla to have a standardized unchanging set of rules. But now we should modify it.. just once right? Or until a scattergun that shoots from the elbows comes out?

Quoted from Beef

Disclaimer: I’m not representing the admin team with this post.

What’s the point of unbanning it? If as most of you claim it doesn’t affect gameplay, why is it then such a huge issue?

The only thing unbanning it will do is that it modifies vanilla+medlocks into vanilla+medlocks+original. It’s my understanding that ‘we’ all wanted vanilla to have a standardized unchanging set of rules. But now we should modify it.. just once right? Or until a scattergun that shoots from the elbows comes out?

The main reason that we should allow the Original is because allowing it will not change any of the Soldier’s mechanics. A Soldier with the Original still plays the same way a Soldier with the Rocketlauncher does, and how you play against them does not change in the slightest.

Quoted from skeej

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Thank god you’re not representing the admin team because you basically came running in, neglecting my (and others’) whole post, and just spewed your “thoughts” the floor as if it contained ANY new information or arguments, actually expecting a serious answer to your rhetorical questions based on an oversimplified straw man fallacy. It’s not really desirable behavior from an admin imo.

Try to keep a “discussion” going by actually taking into account what has been said before. Thanks.

I gave my opinion as a player and not an admin, I thought I made that part clear enough. I’m still entitled to my own opinions and don’t really see what part is unfitting admin behaviour.

I did read parts of this thread, and I actually mostly agree with your post. But it also hits the nail on the head, in that it re-opens the discussion about every single unlock, and we have both seen in the past how that didn’t work out. As who then gets to decide what is the best for tf2? The majority vote? The admins? The prem players? I can see a problem with giving any of these groups this power, and I’m sure you would too. So it still seems in the best interest of this community to just not have that debate.

Quoted from Beef

[…]

I gave my opinion as a player and not an admin, I thought I made that part clear enough. I’m still entitled to my own opinions and don’t really see what part is unfitting admin behaviour.

I did read parts of this thread, and I actually mostly agree with your post. But it also hits the nail on the head, in that it re-opens the discussion about every single unlock, and we have both seen in the past how that didn’t work out. As who then gets to decide what is the best for tf2? The majority vote? The admins? The prem players? I can see a problem with giving any of these groups this power, and I’m sure you would too. So it still seems in the best interest of this community to just not have that debate.

Sorry Beef, my initial response to you might have been a bit harsh. The “What’s the point of unbanning it? If as most of you claim it doesn’t affect gameplay, why is it then such a huge issue?” already annoyed me, because it seems like an obviously answered question. But looking at your post again, I can see that the point you try to make is to rather avoid discussion in its totality. While that might be the “easy” solution, I think that avoiding the debate is not the way to go.

Like I said, “People have been arguing for unlocks ever since Valve gave us them, and most of the time people lost the argument. It’s hard to find an unlock whose unobjectability is easier to argue for than The Original or a medlock.” If people want to keep re-opening the discussion, let them. I cannot think of any other unlock that has such an obvious absense of clear “cons” apart from The Original.

Who gets to decide what’s best for TF2? Everybody, to a certain measure. We don’t need a quantitative measure to back up every rule change. It’s threads like this that can influence admin decisionmaking. I think a discussion (qualitative analysis) as opposed to a poll (quantitative analysis) is usually better, albeit more ambigious and sometimes unfocussed. People like me and others provide their standpoints and arguments, admins have their own opinions, admins are open to any good feedback, and, in the best case scenario, positive change ensues.

the original should be banned for ever, just to have such a thread going on before every season starts. :)

so, i really dont understand all that complaining you have about the ban. if its just preference, than, sorry guys, i dont care.
if there is really no advantage and its the same gameplay as it is with the normal rocketlauncher, than just play with the normal launcher and be happy.
and yes, it makes a huge difference with the expit point from the projectiles. maybe not in the higher divs, but in the low divs for sure. it is easier to aim, especially on close targets.
and yes, its a difference to play against the original. reaction time + way to move your mouse. so, with normal rl, there is always one way which take you longer than the other way to rotate yourself for shooting behind, not with the original. ok, you´ll say its not even a sec so why care? just because of the tiny little thing that you could press space to jump and dodge or you aint got the time for it. its a slightly difference, but at least it is a difference.

so for all soldiers, stop complaing about why it is banned, just take it as it is. its not just a reskin, it changes a lot, all in slight ways, but it changes it, thats a fact.

Quoted from mettbroetchenstyle

it is easier to aim, especially on close targets.

this is wrong as shit. sorry. if you want to make the argument that it’s “easier” to aim, you probably should make the argument that it’s easier to aim long range since you need to adjust the angle at which you fire, whereas at close range it doesn’t actually matter because you are going to hit the guy no matter what because you’re a fuckin soldier.

reaction time + way to move your mouse. so, with normal rl, there is always one way which take you longer than the other way to rotate yourself for shooting behind, not with the original.

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ok, you´ll say its not even a sec so why care? just because of the tiny little thing that you could press space to jump and dodge or you aint got the time for it. its a slightly difference, but at least it is a difference.

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can one of the admins please ban me for a while before i start being mean?

aw fuck. too late.

jesus christ.