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Quoted from Monkeh

[…]
The need to compensate has been there from day 1, whether you have right or left view you have to compensate in some situations, centre view means you dont have to…BOOM! there you have a significant difference. Thank you for inadvertantly arguing my case for me.

Play with Right side view model (and left sided too if you wish) and then with Original. Tell me where the advantage lies.

Having the original is no different than having an option that says “Center Viewmodel”. The “significant” difference I pointed out has a neglectable impact on your playstyle, the only reason it’s even significant is because it’s the ONLY difference between normal RL and Original.

Having your viewmodel Centre, Left or Right is as much a preference as keybind layout and mouse sensitivity are. Attributing any advantage to them just makes you look silly.

I also probably didn’t write up my arguement as to why Original shouldn’t be considered anything more than a viewmodel preference properly. Serves me right for trying to argue on the internet while also trying to fix problems with 2 label printers -.-

If you don’t understand monkeh I’d be willing to explain later on mumble but you’re looking at it wrong :P

Also, in S10 The Original was banned based on the justified complaint that it did not have a sound to clarify that it was under the effect of Kritzkrieg, thus making it the ultimate surprise kritzkrieg weapon.

Now that that has been fixed, do the admins have a stance on the Original as to why they’ve decided to keep it in the banned section for S11 or was it just grandfathered in from the S10 unlock bans?

but jumping is actually harder with the original and shooting around most corners is more difficult.

aiming with it is really no different from the default rocket launcher. i could switch back and forth between the two and my aim wouldn’t change at all; i would still be terrible at hitting things with it, because i am bad.

the reason people want it is because many people’s preference is to fire from the center, not because it is a magical weapon that makes you better at soldier. did you know that a people play with left-handed viewmodels, solely because they prefer it that way? i play with the original in america because i like having my rockets centered instead of coming from the right or left. invite soldiers tyrone and wonderwall (amongst others) use the default rocket launcher because they want them coming from the right.

the argument that “if it’s only preference, then why ban it????” is bizarre. surely if something boils down to nothing but preference, then that’s an argument in favor of allowing it, because giving people more options as to how receptive their game is to them is a good thing.

The argument I gave is if it’s preferred, why is it preferred? I doubt it’s preferred purely because rockets appear to fly from the middle of the screen, it must make them more comfortable somehow, and having a massive cream cock protruding from their chests CANT be the reason, it simply has to give some form of advantage or why use it?

This guy suggests you’re wrong btw:
Quoted from slate

I would just like to use it to be able to shoot through an opening by actually aiming at it and not slightly to the left, depening on the distance to said object.

Advantage and lowering of skill ceiling right there….to some extent.

@BZAD: Vanilla has kinda been decided on, just about the only unlock up for discussion is the original, hence fish wife like arguments. But a guy has to have something to entertain himself with during quiet times in work doesn’t he?

Quoted from Monkeh

@Ele: You know I love you, but seriously, not having to compensate for different angles when aiming or jumping isn’t an advantage at all?

Jump with the normal RL right sided or left sided is irrelevant here, them perform the EXACT same motion with the Original and tell me if the jump with the original went the same as with the normal RL. You do have to compensate, but in a different way that some people prefer. You do not magically become more able at rocket jumping with the original. Every jump you would do with the Original is no harder/easier than it is with the normal rocket launcher, it’s simply different in how you compensate and some people have preferences that differ from others.

If it gives no advantage at all…ever, then why do so many want to play with it…’cos it looks a bit like a cock? Doubt that’s why…hmmm what else is different about it…oh yeah, centre view model, maybe people find aiming easier, jumping better, shooting round corners easier…hmmm

Aiming is no harder/easier, same for jumping and shooting around corners is harder with the Original because you can’t edge corners that your viewmodel orientation with the normal RL would favor (IE Right side view model favors left turning corners, and the other way around for Left side view model.)

What’s the big deal? No advantage to using it, just play with the normal rocket launcher then, left or right side, I don’t mind…but ONE SIDE, not in the middle.

Preference is the big deal, I prefer to play with centre viewmodel, not because it becomes easier/harder simply because I prefer that particular orientation of rockets. Just like how I prefer to have a sens of 27.5cm 360 over someone else who might have a 33cm 360, not because it makes aiming any harder/easier but simply because it’s a preference.

Not sure why I’m arguing about this, not entirely sure I care, but it annoys me when people say allow it and then say it’s exactly the same…so just use the standard RL then, what difference does it make?

Don’t get it.

As DJC said, if we accept that it makes no difference why ban it?

Quoted from herpderp

Now that that has been fixed, do the admins have a stance on the Original as to why they’ve decided to keep it in the banned section for S11 or was it just grandfathered in from the S10 unlock bans?

A statement I got said that it’s banned because “They don’t want other Unlocks? They’re not getting the Original then”

Quoted from Monkeh

The argument I gave is if it’s preferred, why is it preferred? I doubt it’s preferred purely because rockets appear to fly from the middle of the screen, it must make them more comfortable somehow, and having a massive cream cock protruding from their chests CANT be the reason, it simply has to give some form of advantage or why use it?

Because it’s what we’re comfortable with. Quake and multiple other old shooters used to have center viewmodels, it’s what they’re used to.

Quoted from Ghostface

[…]

A statement I got said that it’s banned because “They don’t want other Unlocks? They’re not getting the Original then”

Expanding on this: The biggest problem that was discussed is “Is the Original an unlock, or is it a reskin?” – which lead to a discussion what qualifies as an unlock and what qualifies as a reskin with me and some admins arguing it’s a reskin and others arguing it’s an unlock. In the end, in order to keep things simple it was decided to keep it out.

It obviously makes a difference, because people who have left handed viewmodels most likely jump from different walls (and make a left handed 180 to do a jump instead of a right handed one). This does not seem like a big issue, but if you think about the ‘air trajectory’ there actually is one, although it’s small.

Now, with the original people will still jump off their preferred side, but the air-trajectory has changed slightly. That, combined with where the rocket comes out (which has been discussed to maximum extent) are two differences.

And as for people making the argument ”I want to shoot where I’m aiming instead of just left/right of the crosshair” think about the fact that other non-hitscan weaponry also suffer from the same issue.

So for a soldier it might not make a difference, but in respect to a demoman it does.
Where are the demoman’s ‘Original Stickylauncher’ and ‘Original Grenadelauncher’?
(Because I would very very much like to have a center-based grenadelauncher.)
This would change the current balance between classes ever so slightly, it might just be the proverbial dead butterfly killed when you went back in time.