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Highlander.
Created 29th October 2010 @ 13:38
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sweet! :D
so we can be expecting an admincall after the challenge is finished?
The fuck do I know, I just try to be provocative. :P
I’m not against highlander as an idea, I just feel that highlander isn’t what ETF2L should be focusing on. If someone else wants to start a highlander league and put in all the effort, great, they’re welcome to. Heck I’d even happily host their website for them and chuck a couple of servers their way, and equally I’m sure ETF2L would happily give them plenty of support in terms of advertising it (just like any other great community initiative). Thing is, I’ve personally seen no one (beside Ashkan) who shows the kind of dedication and commitment required to make something like that happen, and he sure as he hell can’t make it happen by himself.
Quoted from Skyride
I’m not against highlander as an idea, I just feel that highlander isn’t what ETF2L should be focusing on. If someone else wants to start a highlander league and put in all the effort, great, they’re welcome to. Heck I’d even happily host their website for them and chuck a couple of servers their way, and equally I’m sure ETF2L would happily give them plenty of support in terms of advertising it (just like any other great community initiative). Thing is, I’ve personally seen no one (beside Ashkan) who shows the kind of dedication and commitment required to make something like that happen, and he sure as he hell can’t make it happen by himself.
No worries, i got plans and stuff.
Basically, etf2l.org is for 6v6,
but etf2l.org/highlander (or sth similar) will be a subsection for all things highlander. Not all things will be separate, and not everything will be the same (ofcourse).
I’m thinking the HL part will have a modified navigation menu, a separate news page which only shows the highlander newsposts, the sidebar will only show highlander results/demos instead of 6v6 ones. All these things are easy enough to realize, the goal being that the focus of ETF2L won’t shift, as you say, but will merely broaden. (It’ll have separate admins as well.) That way the 6v6 and the highlander can both keep their identity, while it will still be easy to switch between 6v6 and 9v9.
(I’m just making this up as i go along btw :) )
Or sure, you could register EHLL.org (European HighLander League) and put up a site there, but etf2l will attract a lot more attention. (Just look at anything else etf2l created, and compare with initiatives from other organizations).
Ah so you’re just riding the ETF2L brand? cool, sounds great man! :)
fyi, I know I sound anti-highlander, but I’m not. I just don’t think its viable to have an active league for it, although if someone proves me wrong I’d be damn happy for them.
@ neusbeer
That would be a multiblog solution I think? Could work, but you’d need to make sure the sites tie together properly. Imo, if you want to make a highlander league work, you need it be be close to the regular etf2l site (as opposed to just promotion), being more of a casual fun section for new players and experienced players alike. That way new players could keep flowing in and out. There have been so many 7v7-9v9 leagues that started and died, mostly because the pure pub teams get less active or go 6v6. Most of them have the same pattern of a small group with dedicated players who knows and plays eachother and a larger group who likes the idea and concept but isn’t active on IRC /searching games. So unless you set up a league that relies heavily on the current etf2l community a 7v7 league would not work out.
Again, I’m not against the idea, but as people want the etf2l and it’s community to help out it should be set up that way. Which means it being a layer between pub and 6v6, for people who are interested in competitive play, 6v6 players who want to have some relaxed fun, or people who prefer the relaxed 7v7 gameplay over the 6v6 one. In any case, the point skyride is trying to bring over: saying 6v6 sucks and asking a highlander league for yourself doesn’t do justice to the question at hand. You’ll need to find you place within the (currently 6v6) etf2l community, which will mean the league would have no buddy rule and lot’s of 6v6 players participating (and having fun!).
Personally I see some perspective for a layer between 6v6 and publics. I’d probably prefer 7v7 over 9v9 due to the logistics of organizing.
Quoted from RaCio
@ neusbeer
That would be a multiblog solution I think? Could work, but you’d need to make sure the sites tie together properly. Imo, if you want to make a highlander league work, you need it be be close to the regular etf2l site (as opposed to just promotion), being more of a casual fun section for new players and experienced players alike. That way new players could keep flowing in and out. There have been so many 7v7-9v9 leagues that started and died, mostly because the pure pub teams get less active or go 6v6. Most of them have the same pattern of a small group with dedicated players who knows and plays eachother and a larger group who likes the idea and concept but isn’t active on IRC /searching games. So unless you set up a league that relies heavily on the current etf2l community a 7v7 league would not work out.
Again, I’m not against the idea, but as people want the etf2l and it’s community to help out it should be set up that way. Which means it being a layer between pub and 6v6, for people who are interested in competitive play, 6v6 players who want to have some relaxed fun, or people who prefer the relaxed 7v7 gameplay over the 6v6 one. In any case, the point skyride is trying to bring over: saying 6v6 sucks and asking a highlander league for yourself doesn’t do justice to the question at hand. You’ll need to find you place within the (currently 6v6) etf2l community, which will mean the league would have no buddy rule and lot’s of 6v6 players participating (and having fun!).
Personally I see some perspective for a layer between 6v6 and publics. I’d probably prefer 7v7 over 9v9 due to the logistics of organizing.
This is pretty much spot on. Also, don’t listen to people talking about buddy rules and stuff, they’re probably not experience enough or something. No offence ;)
Just a few thoughts, as someone who has been playing in the Highlander, and very briefly at a low level in 6v6.
Highlander works better as a ladder than it does as a league. I personally enjoy highlander because there’s simply less at stake. Losing a game doesn’t mean you’ve totally lost the season, since the ladder is always an on going thing. Players can easily be replaced in teams and there’s roles for everyone. It’s a great entry point for players who want to get into the competitive scene and not be completely overwhelmed by them. I’ve personally likened it more to Sunday Club Football than anything. If the rules were refined to use some of the cup rules, then it would be even better, for example: allowing players from 6v6 to buddy teams, not letting teams challenge the same one twice, and maybe fixing how challenges work a little.
Why do a rule like the whole buddy system thing from the cup? It allows those buddies to scout for talent and encourage them to play at a more advanced level, for example: within the competitive team they are playing with. Another good reason for implementing the buddy system is so that they can work with those buddies to improve their own game as a team and maybe eventually break off from the highlander when they feel ready, and move into 6v6 with an 8 player team (so that gives them two reserves just in case, the ideal team amount for a 6v6.
The only thing ETF2L really needs to do is advertise it a bit more, and refine it a bit… they already have a lot to work with on this.
Warning: I’m tired as hell so I’m sure I’ve made a couple of errors.
Quoted from Rynex
I personally enjoy highlander because there’s simply less at stake. Losing a game doesn’t mean you’ve totally lost the season, since the ladder is always an on going thing.
The reason players would invest so much extra time in TF2 (as compared to just playing on public servers), is because they enjoy playing competitively. Just as there is a (very) small competitive edge in joining a ladder (as compared to organizing unofficial matches), there is also a difference in how much time they would have to invest, especially as a leader. It’s very simple: to most teams, the extra time required is just not worth it.
A league, however, adds a much greater competitive edge without requiring more work from leaders and players than a ladder would (your opponents are picked for you and then you just let Racio assign default dates for all your matches :P). That’s what’s required to keep the highlander scene thriving.
In short, the level of competitiveness that you prefer in highlander does not suffice in order to sustain a stable scene. I’m not saying a league wouldn’t mainly be a fun league with less restrictions than the 6v6 league, but it would definitely be more competitive than a ladder.
Why do a rule like the whole buddy system thing from the cup? It allows those buddies to scout for talent and encourage them to play at a more advanced level, for example: within the competitive team they are playing with. Another good reason for implementing the buddy system is so that they can work with those buddies to improve their own game as a team and maybe eventually break off from the highlander when they feel ready, and move into 6v6 with an 8 player team (so that gives them two reserves just in case, the ideal team amount for a 6v6.
If you want to increase the 6v6 player base, I don’t see how it would be efficient to first try to bring in new teams to a highlander ladder, then have them practice 6v6 by the side, and finally have them move to a 6v6 league. It’s not like getting a stable 9v9 or 7v7 team is easier than getting a stable 6v6 team together. If a ladder is less overwhelming than a league, then have them join the 6v6 ladder directly instead. Besides, you’re assuming that these teams that have players specialized in perhaps all 9 different classes wouldn’t have any problems with conforming their players to the 4-5 classes that are used in 6v6.
In your post, you claim that a highlander scene would be able to benefit the 6v6 scene. I agree with this. I’m sure a lot of players from highlander teams would move over to 6v6, maybe even some of them making the alternative classes more viable thanks to their competitive experience with those classes. However, if we want to be able to reap those rewards, we have to make sure the seeds grow. We can’t just throws them onto the ground and hope that something will happen. We have to give them a good and solid foundation with water and nutrition. Otherwise, the plant will surely die.
Quoted from DeNeusbeer
[…]
No worries, i got plans and stuff.
Basically, etf2l.org is for 6v6,
but etf2l.org/highlander (or sth similar) will be a subsection for all things highlander. Not all things will be separate, and not everything will be the same (ofcourse).
Been awhile since checking this thread. Nice to see some more concrete thoughts on this progress.
Note though that you’ve already got that URL in use. ;)
etf2.org/highlander
Also, just wanted to mention, at least for the NA people that might be watching this thread is that ugcleague.com is indeed going to host a HL League. Announcement was today on their site, with starting of Jan. 10th or so.
In no way am I endorsing this, just saying that a NA option has been made. Have no idea what kind of advertising they’ll do…
Regards
The only problem my team has with ugcleague, is that matches have to be played on Mondays, and well, Mondays aren’t really a great time for my team. It is quite frustrating that there are next to no options for competitive highlander… This highlander tournament that ETF2L did, resulted in four of the best TF2 matches I have ever played, and I, like the rest of my team, want to keep on playing together.
Quoted from Boom.Headshot
The only problem my team has with ugcleague, is that matches have to be played on Mondays, and well, Mondays aren’t really a great time for my team. It is quite frustrating that there are next to no options for competitive highlander… This highlander tournament that ETF2L did, resulted in four of the best TF2 matches I have ever played, and I, like the rest of my team, want to keep on playing together.
Well, you are sort of right:
2.1.1. All UGC Team Fortress 2 matches are to be played on Monday Nights at 9:30 pm EST by default. Clans may agree on a different date or time.
I had the same impression as well. However, this is no different from what the challenge did. They set a default date/time or deadline.
As it says, scheduling to be done is available, which is between the Team Leaders, just as it was done here and for other leagues, typically.
The real question is….when are the matchups set, which will set how much time there is to agree on a day/time. For myself, and I agree with you, Mondays suck ass, and particularly that early in the night (9:30 est). West coast ppl…need to speak up.
Actually, after talking with my team, we decided Mondays would work :D. So we’re signed up for the UGC League. Just hope it gets a good amount of teams.
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