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I don’t understand the resistance to this. The internet hates change it seems, remember teh fuss over ever fucking change to tf2 and etf2l ever. If people want to be admins for it and they are willing to committ the time, as well as someoen to code the extra table, I presume to be quite easy if you use template from 6v6.

9v9 is a lot of fun, if it had came first, before 6v6, and was the accept format you would still want a 6v6 league and not just the ladder.

There are some thing to work out, such as if you want to put a skill cap etc. Personally I would like to see it open, just like 6v6 you will have to get better to reach teh top. It also allows for weapons to be tested for 6v6 if we allow everything in 9v9 so there is a benfit there. Also it allows all classes to be used which is always fun.

Quoted from ashkan

[…]

This is probably the best time to tell you that we’re gonna have to postpone tomorrow’s match, because of the experimental ordnance cup :P

damn you, ashkan..

Quoted from emb

less than a dozen persistently active teams on the 9v9 ladder!

By this logic, there shouldn’t be a 6v6 league either..

Also thought of a way to speed it if we get enough teams. Any new Highlander teams that have not particapted in the Highlander Challenge: Lowest Div.

Teams that got knocked out in group stages: Lowest Div

Those who got to playoff: 2nd Lowest

Highlander teams made up of div 5/6 6v6 players: 2nd lowest DIv

Those who make it to last 128 or maybe 64: 3rd lowest Div

teams made up Div 3/4 (I am going off teh fact they won’t ahve got Highlander maps down/ or class stragies down to justify this placement): 3rd Lowest Div

Teams that get to Quater Finals: 4th Lowest Div

Teams that won or got to semi finals: Highest Div

Teams made of Div 1/2: Highest Div

There are some flaws in this as Div 1 HIghlander would roll everything. The otehr way is that it have to be Div 3 players and belwo, with Div 2 and 1 still allowed as Buddy.

Quoted from Sheridyn

If the argument is that the scene isn’t big enough yet, I don’t see how you can expect to see a number of teams on par with the 6v6 league when there is no highlander league structure in place. It’s a format which needs a chance to grow (and apparently prove itself in the eyes of those discounting it because it’s not their cup of tea and because 6v6 is clearly the be all and end all of competitive TF2). I mean, look at the growth rate noted on ETF2L’s league page:
Season 1: 52 teams
Season 2: 120 teams
Season 3: 190 teams
etc.

You are correct that pretty much all 6v6 leagues have been growing. Unfortunately most 7v7, 8v8 and 9v9 leagues have in fact always been declining. Hunderds of 6v6 pcw’s are being searched every day, yet only a handfull of highlander ones are being searched.

Let me start of by saying I like 7v7/highlander a lot, it’s great fun and I enjoy it. But from my pov it will stay the casual fun mode and not the new equal to 6v6 some people are envisioning. In reality a league would be swallowed by the 6v6 gameplay. All higher divisions will be ruled by top 6v6 players ofclassing. And after a while most of the better players will transition to 6v6, not because 6v6 is better then 7v7, but because it’s in fact quite similar, with 6v6 being more competitive. It might seem elitist but it’s really not meant that way, fact is the top division 6v6 players are people who generally come from other fps games and were really good at them. In addition the 6v6 gameplay has had so much time to develop that there is no way a very good player will find equal competitive strength in 7v7, hence why most good teams will move (except for pyro and spy players). Because in the end top competitive play is all about being good at tf2/fps gaming (for lower divisions it’s about having fun with your team in the game/gamemode).

Again, this is not meant to bash the 7v7/highlander game mode. I think it could be a great casual league, which is fun and fine for the majority of people, but not what some vocal players in this thread seem to want.

Quoted from RaCio

[…]
You are correct that pretty much all 6v6 leagues have been growing. Unfortunately most 7v7, 8v8 and 9v9 leagues have in fact always been declining. Hunderds of 6v6 pcw’s are being searched every day, yet only a handfull of highlander ones are being searched.

Once again, I’m not gonna compare this potential highlander league with previous leagues. Nor will I compare its popularity to 6v6, especially in such a specific manner. There are just so many factors (most of which have changed or will change over time) to take into consideration when making such a comparison, that it becomes utterly pointless.

As for the rest of your post, I agree with most of it (although it contains a looooot of speculation). It’s hard for me to know exactly what others expect from such a league in terms of competitiveness, but I think they would be disappointed if they expect it to reach the same level as (or even close to) 6v6. Naturally, none of us really know how it would develop, we can only speculate.

In your post, I see nothing about such a league that would be harmful to 6v6 or the community as a whole (on the contrary). I think you’re just trying to get the expectations of competitiveness down, while not claiming a league wouldn’t be worthwhile. Have I interpreted it correctly?

When deciding for myself whether I think it would be worth trying to set a highlander league up, I take the following into consideration:

– The risk involved.
– What there is to gain.
– The chance of achieving something that would be considered a “success”.

Evaluating all the various arguments that have been presented, I personally draw the conclusion that there is a lot more to gain than there is to lose. Trying to be rational (and not optimistic or pessimistic) about the chances of “succeeding”, I think the odds are on our side.

However, people don’t always have the same frame of reference. To some people, having to shut the league down if it’s not popular enough is considered a huge risk (my god, we have failed, I must now perform seppuku). Also, some people can have very high expectations, which decreases the chance of them reaching what they would consider “success”. I think some people here have a combination of both (maybe together with a pessimistic attitude), and therefore won’t think it’s worthwhile.

Additionally, some have a different outlook on the current popularity and outlook of highlander, but I don’t think they’re qualified to make such a judgement.

PS. Let’s not discuss how divisions and such would be decided. That’s for later if it becomes relevant.

edit: I would be seriously surprised if people are still reading my long posts XD

Quoted from CrashSite

With your comment about top 66v6 teams dominating, then it might not be a bad idea that the buddy system is kept and Div 3 is the cap.

Fuck no.
Highlander is all about fun.
I can’t see any reason why any prem/div1/div2 player couldn’t have fun aswell…

That’s just plain stupid. It was OK for a “community” challenge but this shouldn’t apply to a ETF2L highlander league.