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Highlander.
Created 29th October 2010 @ 13:38
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I was pointed in this direction by a friend (i dont venture much out of the highlander section). I would like to see some form of comp TF2 not in the 6v6 cl2 format. Being crap at demo/solly/scout/medic dont help…
When i first read about the 9v9 community cup i saw some people bitching about “why is it for the nubs. When’s there gunna be a pro cup” or w/e so id guess there is interest in non 6v6 tourneys from the existing bunch of players on etf2l.
7v7 would be easier (as said before by others) but im up for eather and I think most of my team would be up for one. The ladder will just dry up after the same teams are bored of smashing/being smashed by the same people over and over.
Just my thoughts
Same here, i would love see growin any 7v7, 9v9 league ;) maybe both ? :p
I second the idea of 9v9 league.
I have also done 1-2 matches on 7v7, it’s fun, it brings some freshness & requires some tactical skills on the fly to choose the best 7. But me & http://etf2l.org/teams/9551my team[/url] are definitely an highlander team.
Maybe for the teams having problems scheduling & aggreeing on dates, Doodle would be a great tool. I honestly don’t think bringing 9 people is harder than bringing 7 once the people in you team have a certain discipline & learned some habits. (And teams interested in a league would most likely get those, would that be 7 or 9 players, I am not talking about lobby teams)
Our only problem is the lack of teams to play against /
I’m pretty sure a lot of Highlander Community Challange members want to go through with their team. I’m sure at least a portion of my current team does. So, yea, I think it’s a great idea.
Quoted from ashkan
[…]
Naturally, but that was expected, which is why something should’ve been done about it.
Well, some lack of rule knowledge was expected. But the amount of teams with initial roster problems even after 3 news post told people was surprising.
Quoted from ashkan
Not all temporary admins have to be starters on active 6v6 teams. Temporary admin wouldn’t even have to be able to edit steamids, edit match results, enter default wins etc, they could just process that and leave the implementation of it to the normal admins. Them also having a good knowledge of the rules definitely takes a huge load off the normal admins’ shoulders.
I estimate about 10-20% of the admin requests were rule questions. The rest was match disputes and other stuff. Plus that a part of those question couldn’t be answered by people who didn’t wrote the rules ;)
Quoted from ashkan
Sure, there are some cases/maps where the spy would be one of the two least useful classes, but don’t underestimate it. A good spy usually doesn’t have any problems picking off the medic/sniper/heavy/sentry/tele a few times each, every round, depending on the map. The possibility of giving your team uber advantage, breaking their sentry defense, killing off their ammo resupply and health regeneration (from the medic and the dispenser), slowing their advance (through teleporters) down etc, naturally has a huge impact on the game. I don’t understand why so many people seem to underestimate the spy. Maybe because it’s not a good class to have in 6v6, and they haven’t played regularly against good spies anywhere else (except pubs)? I don’t know.
Spy surely is useful, but that’s not the point. Soldier, pyro, demo, heavy, engi, sniper and medic are just more useful. And scout is a must on 5cp maps.
Quoted from Alx
– it gives some tactical/choice depth, since you have to leave 2 classes out
– not as much spam and feeling of pub with 14 instead of 18.
– easier to get a team together to play, to get 7 instead of 9 is a huge difference.
– easier to form a team, you don’t need to find people for all classes.
– you can change your team’s gameplay/tactics by switching to one of the classes that were being left out in the middle of a round.
You are comparing it to 9v9 where you should be comparing it to 6v6. Everyone will agree with you that 7v7 has advantages over 9v9. As I’ve said, the plus of running weird classes isn’t worth _that_ much once people start taking things more seriously. At the other points you have noted 6v6 is at an advantage.
I’m interested in 6v6 as well, but I do think that a fair amount of teams would still be up for highlander or 7v7. Both the teams I was involved with would do it again, and I know a lot more through friends that would join in a season too.
It is a lot of effort to get 9 players all on the server at one time, and having to deal with only 7 would help, but many players like what they know and know what they like, which is 9v9. I was in the process of getting my team involved in the Wireplay league for some 7v7 action when I was guided to this actually, and I’d much prefer to do it here. All my team are registered here, we know the rules, the admins, what to do, where to go and how to do it.
As for admins, I don’t think it would be so hard to get some dedicated members of the etf2l community to volunteer, and you don’t need them to be able to code to perform basic organisational work on here. Many players make light work.
tl;dr – 9v9 is cool, 7v7 is cool, maybe even better, make a season plz you have support
Quoted from RaCio
Well, some lack of rule knowledge was expected. But the amount of teams with initial roster problems even after 3 news post told people was surprising.
Sure, I can understand that you overestimated them, shit happens.
Quoted from RaCio
I estimate about 10-20% of the admin requests were rule questions. The rest was match disputes and other stuff. Plus that a part of those question couldn’t be answered by people who didn’t wrote the rules ;)
Then that’s immediately 20 % work off your backs, BAM! And then a bunch of other stuff they can process (partially) as well. Almost no investment needed, any noob temp admin can read and understand the rules, without bothering the normal admins. Sure, as you said, some rules require attention from the guys who wrote them. That’s why I bothered you a bunch of times ;) Still, those rules only need to be clarified one single time.
Quoted from RaCio
Spy surely is useful, but that’s not the point. Soldier, pyro, demo, heavy, engi, sniper and medic are just more useful. And scout is a must on 5cp maps.
Underestimation! Seems we’ve got some tactical discussions to do before the next season, gonna be fun ;)
Quoted from RaCio
As I’ve said, the plus of running weird classes isn’t worth _that_ much once people start taking things more seriously.
I didn’t quite understand what you meant here. ^^
Quoted from RaCio
At the other points you have noted 6v6 is at an advantage.
A very small advantage. 7v7 has advantages over 6v6 as well (wanna go into them now?). Overall, both modes are good and should work well. The main point is that there’s a demand for 7v7, and a perfect opportunity for ETF2L to meet it.
oh, forgot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDhThhrd_UY
Quoted from ashkan
Then that’s immediately 20 % work off your backs, BAM! And then a bunch of other stuff they can process (partially) as well. Almost no investment needed, any noob temp admin can read and understand the rules, without bothering the normal admins.
20% of the request doesn’t mean 20% of the work caused by requests. Answering rule questions didn’t really bother me or cost me time. Writing all of the rules is another story :p
Quoted from RaCio
[…]
20% of the request doesn’t mean 20% of the work caused by requests. Answering rule questions didn’t really bother me or cost me time. Writing all of the rules is another story :p
There’s just one thing inherently wrong in your argumentation… Sure, you can continue discussing why some solutions wouldn’t work out as good as you’d think, for various reasons. However, the simple fact of the matter is that you boys were underpowered. You’ve gotta find a solution to that, and not make up excuses as to why it wouldn’t be worth even bothering about it. Even getting a few Americans involved, answering admin calls at night, would’ve helped the teams a lot. What’s the reason for not doing that? In worst case, you’d just have to quickly train a few people to take care of administration calls as well, if that’s what it takes. Letting the users suffer because the admins can’t take the time to get new manpower is unprofessional.
Investigate if there’s a high enough number of players who’ll be interested in a 9v9 tournament.
If there’s not enough, let’s go with 7v7.
I’m ok with either.
Quoted from RaCio
[…]
20% of the request doesn’t mean 20% of the work caused by requests. Answering rule questions didn’t really bother me or cost me time. Writing all of the rules is another story :p
There is some level of technical maintenance and oversight required to make sure that problems don’t arise and take weeks to get fixed, potentially causing real inconvenience for all. The fact that the search has been broken for the past three days pretty much is a demonstration that there are no active admins currently able to commit fixes for even simple bugs to fix like that (admittedly I’m not sure what it breaking implies… someone is around to break it but nobody is around to fix it).
It would be stupid to start up another large tournament with nobody available for active technical oversight, it’s just asking for problems.
My team would definitely return for a Highlander league. Not sure how 7v7 would play out, but from the sound of it that would be a good idea as well.
Not gonna argue merits of 9v9, 7v7 or 6v6. Just going to say over 800 teams signed up for this and I got a feeling at least 10% minimum enjoy the competition. I know an American team I am in their community that enjoy the competition and if you were to make a league, you’d definately get them to sign up. Though European Team Fortress League becoming the biggest American Highlander league? Possible.
Another thing is 9v9 has never had a dedicated league so why not experiment with it. Need extra admins? You got people like Ashkan, Orv and myself who love highlander and would want to see it enhanced.
If anything, good old fashioned opinion poll would work wonders.
Finally my biggest argument is – Beauty of Highlander is you can always play your favourite class.
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