Season 12 Map Pool, ESH Reminders
April 16, 2012
Season 12 Map Pool
The poll has been closed, the Season 12 map pool is as follows:
- cp_badlands
- cp_granary
- cp_gullywash_final1
- cp_snakewater
- cp_obscure_final
- cp_gravelpit
And for those who are interested, the full poll results are as follows:
- cp_obscure_final (the snowy one) – 496 votes (49.7% of voters picked this)
- cp_gravelpit – 428 (42.9%)
- cp_croissant (latest version) – 345 (34.6%)
- ctf_turbine_pro (rules tba) – 300 (30.1%)
- cp_foundry – 284 (28.5%)
- Total voters (and votes) – 997 (1853)
While we are relieved at avoiding the work of creating turbine rules, a number of us are surprised to see obscure make such an emphatic return to ETF2L. Stay tuned for the full Season 12 map schedule, we should have that finalised by tomorrow.
ESH Reminders
Signups are still open for the Velociraptor Challenge, starting tomorrow night. We are delighted to see that 39 teams are now signed up (with a further 4 pending steamids), which means that even if we don’t meet our target of 64, we will still run the cup! For more details on the cup, click here. To ignore those details and just sign up(!), click here. For 
huhy‘s handy how-to-sign-up guide, click here.
Stay tuned for our next post, it should be enough to satisfy even the biggest poll addicts…
Posted by ETF2L Staff in League, Site
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free croissant
long live gravelpit
Thank god no croissant, the map wasn’t/isn’t ready yet.
Yes! Gravelpit is in :D
Sad to see. Hope ETF2L comes to their senses for Season 13.
No freight WOO!
Shame to see no new map this season :S
Obscure… again… why…
Community voted, deal with it.
sigh, obscure.
Ah well, better than freight.
What the fuck, why would you vote for a map that was so bad that a better version had to be made?! And even that version was majorly disliked…
you could just do tf2 a favour and put in croissant.
Called it.
Guess what, if you allow the community to vote, they will always go for a map that has been played in previous seasons.
Not everyone has played custom maps, any map in a previous season has been played by the large majority. Thus we get this.
A map with broken sniper sight lines on mid and second. A very uninteresting mid and a frankly annoying last.
Great map selection!
Good old obscure made me join competitive tf2, gravel brings something new between 5cp maps.
And for those who are talking about Croissant – it already did a great job in competing with old maps. Next season It will be in map pool, I’m sure. That’s just mine opinion.
Because out of the few maps in the poll it sucked the least.
cant deal with it
fuck gpit.
i would like to see crossiant :<
God damn it etf2l….
It’s easy for the admins to say “hey don’t blame us it was a community vote” but this sort of thing reflects very poorly on the league and those who run it for allowing it to happen.
Freight all over again?
I refuse to play Obscure.
Obscure got voted on cause we felt cheated the last time =)
Let’s change obscure to cp_process, everyone agrees , right?
No one wants to sit 25minutes defending obscure last
Lol, this mappool is a joke and a bad one too. Bad enough that gravel is still in, but Obscure? OBSCURE?! People who voted it have obviously never spent 25 mins sieging or defending last on that fucker or played it against a semi-good sniper.
so, cocluding my analysis, I’d like to add: fuck you, you fucking fucks for not having the balls to try something new (croissant), but sticking to the same shit that has been proven to be fucked up (even the mapmaker admits it for christ’ sake!).
I hate 49.7% of this community. At least.
obscure…. you gotta be fricken kidding me.. *facepalm*
Obscure isn’t that bad actually as long as both teams play it aggressively. Unfortunately most people prefer to lame it up turning it into an incredibly slow, boring stalemate.
Just for those who lost the overview, here the story so far:
“Sad to see. Hope ETF2L comes to their senses for Season 13.” – ThePledge
“Shame to see no new map this season :S” – Admirable
“Obscure… again… why…” – longas
“What the fuck, why would you vote for a map that was so bad that a better version had to be made?! And even that version was majorly disliked…” – Sideshow
“It’s easy for the admins to say “hey don’t blame us it was a community vote” but this sort of thing reflects very poorly on the league and those who run it for allowing it to happen.” – Mark
“I refuse to play Obscure.” – Daniel
“No one wants to sit 25minutes defending obscure last” – IronHawk
“obscure…. you gotta be fricken kidding me.. *facepalm*” – IronHawk
“cant deal with it” – cookye
“God damn it etf2l….” – kaidus
“6on6 div4 on now OBSCURE ONLY FML” – Tehgnarr (prediction)
do we need to play a shit map every season now only to remind ourselves that it’s shit and no fun at all?
If both teams agree can they choose a different map?
fuck obscure!
Try neeeew maps -.-
cp_process
It’s like half of the community forgot how bad the map was….
“Hey, obscure? I know that map, I liked the snow, let’s vote for it!”
Can you at least give the upper divisions the possibility to play a different map if they agree on it?
Spectating matches is all I do in tf2 these days, don’t ruin the fun :(
Its okay though. S13 obscure will nowhere to be seen in the poll. freight will make its glorious return instead, since people of etf2l seem to have a rather bad long term memory.
Long live Gravel Pit!
Trying to contain my hatred towards Obscure, at least we wont have to play Freight..
Are you fucking SERIOUS??!
This is literally the worst map in TF2. Why oh why do we let these fucking idiots vote on anything important in this community when they have fuck all clue about anything.
Surely admins have to realise that community votes do not work as there are far too many fucktards in this place. I know I’ll get the usual response from the admin team but honestly you guys are doing a great job of speeding up tf2’s death.
lol :D
whine whine whine…
About the sniper sight lines… crossaint or foundry are any better at it ? dont think so…
Pushing last is obviously hard if enemies choose to take gay classes but at least it gives you the chance to try out some crazy stuff.
New maps just dont work out… people play some games on them and feel that its good because its just a change from the standart ones:
*Warmfront – added… hated – removed
*Bazillion – added… hated – removed
*Turbine – added… hated – removed
every map is gonna suffer the same feight and only becouse people dont play them in pcws that is all.
So either we have 5 maps in the season or we have a map pool vote by the end of s12 so there is time to practice new maps.
It is nice that etf2l are listening to the community et al. But this is getting a bit silly, I’m not going to argue that obscure is bad, but at the same time – do you think we will ever see a new map with the current map voting system? Would Gullywash or Snakewater be two of the current go-to maps if the community voted for maps? Would Obscure for that matter ever have gotten the chance in the first place? Maybe it didn’t turn out like everyone wanted to, but I’m glad it was tried and tested – rather than silently ignored.
I could understand if you didn’t want to introduce new maps into the map pool of “Europe’s premier tf2 league”, but that raises the question – were should it happen, is Angel the only other alternative? And if that is the case, is public voting ever a good idea? New maps seems to need continuous play time, not just a little bit of play time for one day, then nothing. I don’t envy the map makers in that task.
The only reason we even played a little bit of something like Croissant was that Angel basically spoon fed it to us; I can’t say I was too happy with the map at the time, but considering the alternatives – and how much it was played before, it was nice to play a new map in such format, all in all.
One thing to remember though: in the Angels cup there were originally 32 teams, of 6 players (for simplicity). That’s slightly short of 200 players. That’s the exposure the map got in terms of actual people playing it. As such I’m amazed that it even got the votes it did – not because of quality but due to how many actually have tried playing it, probably more than the 200, but the point stands. I hope Arnold can continue to work on it, and I hope it will turn out alright.
Personally, I’d rather have admins who took a chance, decided the map pool themselves, and if they got the wrong map, the worst thing that would happen was that people complained – doesn’t that happen anyway? Rather one “fresh” map every season, at least in this games current state. I am generally a proponent of a stable map pool, but a bit of new blood is not bad.
Also, since etf2l has had some experience with this kind of poll from the last season, this time I assume you are actually gathering some statistical data – so we can properly see what group of players thought what? I would imagine that is important information for you, the admins.
I have a question to the admins: what is the motivation behind choosing the maps from a public poll? I’m genuinely curious – How did you feel the voting worked last season? I mean, I don’t want to dismiss the method out of hand, so it would be nice to know what factors made you consider last seasons vote a good enough structure to continue to use.
ps. Finn I challenge you to a game of Obscure. Also, I hope the GC rules will reflect this map pool.
Since I obviously have no life, here a quick update on the ongoing shitstorm in the etf2l news comment section:
Part 1:
“Sad to see. Hope ETF2L comes to their senses for Season 13.” – ThePledge
“Shame to see no new map this season :S” – Admirable
“Obscure… again… why…” – longas
“What the fuck, why would you vote for a map that was so bad that a better version had to be made?! And even that version was majorly disliked…” – Sideshow
“It’s easy for the admins to say “hey don’t blame us it was a community vote” but this sort of thing reflects very poorly on the league and those who run it for allowing it to happen.” – Mark
“I refuse to play Obscure.” – Daniel
“No one wants to sit 25minutes defending obscure last” – IronHawk
“obscure…. you gotta be fricken kidding me.. *facepalm*” – Andee
“cant deal with it” – cookye
“God damn it etf2l….” – kaidus
Part 2:
“do we need to play a shit map every season now only to remind ourselves that it’s shit and no fun at all?” – Gear
“fuck obscure!” – E-thug
“It’s like half of the community forgot how bad the map was….” – Warmaster
“Its okay though. S13 obscure will nowhere to be seen in the poll. freight will make its glorious return instead, since people of etf2l seem to have a rather bad long term memory.” – Linus
“Trying to contain my hatred towards Obscure, at least we wont have to play Freight.” – Rarecandy
“Are you fucking SERIOUS??!” – r7an
“lol :D” – _Ben
Is fine so far the ones that have spoken, i.e. commented are the ones that hate it, I can tell u though that a good amount from prem n div 1 voted for obscure, as I get to see who has voted for what map.
So clearly some people are divided in opinion.
Not gonna start a flame war into people liking this map or not, frankly main thing for me is that gravelpit is in the map pool.
Cheers
Byte
“Not gonna start a flame war into people liking this map or not, frankly main thing for me is that gravelpit is in the map pool.”
yeah, I dont think there is a need for that, since noone is attacking you personally, but even you as the creator of this map must admit, that there are some major flaws to it, what else was the motivation behind the remake?
Would you people rather play a map that get’s HUGE changes every week just because it isn’t nearly complete. Croissant had some good parts (interesting slow capping last) but the map wasn’t ready for comp play.
Also, midpoints that are divided to sides (see croissant, bazillion) should burn in hell.
Well, I rather play a new map on the chance of it being good (I quite liked bazillion for example, but I had to play it couple of times first), than playing a map I already gave a fair chance, but didn’t really like as the result.
im i the only one who actually likes obscure
obscure , http://files.sharenator.com/xzibit_meme_7219_Wtf_am_i_reading-s510x334-157605-580.jpg
as someone already said: “obscure is the least shit map from that pool”
Hah!
Time to play some chess again.
Obscure, what a nice snowy map. Voted it, and would have voted Warmfront or Coldfront too if either one of them made it to the poll.
lol, obscure. time for russian tactics with pyro engi heavy. cu @ obscure last
btw whats wrong with foundry
“ps. Finn I challenge you to a game of Obscure. Also, I hope the GC rules will reflect this map pool.” Look at Season 8 playoffs renoB vs Frostbitten. 28 minutes on the first round, which was 25 minutes of sitting on last because the map was so shit.
tf2 has only 5 god maps so why have 6 in mappool
.
sadface for no turbine_pro again
Never played croissant, fucking hate turbine and gravelpit. Easy votes for obscure and foundry.
“Never played croissant”, “Never played croissant”. Hate this. Not only here, but in “real” life too. “Never tried it, so I wont” – argument.
Why would I vote it, when I have absolutely no idea about the map?
Confused to why people vote for Obscure / Gravelpit. I’d rather see something new thrown in like croissant as a 5th map..
A permanent map pool with a vote from the community for the 5th map sounds good.
Nothing wrong with not wanting to play a map in the league when you haven’t played it in cups/pcws yet, tehgnarr.
You could either make an informed choice by playing the maps you haven’t played yet or just vote uninformed. I would think the informed choice is the better one.
I’m thinking it’s quite hard to introduce a new map if etf2l let the public decide entirely, if you think of all the people that actually follow up on the development of the map let alone play a match on the newest versions it’s nowhere near the amount of votes croissant did get but i’m glad it got the votes it did. It’s just not possible to introduce a new map if this is the way maps will be decided from now on.
Not being able to get croissant into the pickup channel doesn’t help either ;)
ew obscure :/
Why would you like gravelpit? ok it does bring some difference to 5cap maps but still, its so boring, it can drag for so loooong. + all of you who are whining that it takes long to cap last on obscure, let me remind you that C cap on gravelpit is not just annoying but also it takes loong to cap unless it comes to a suprise pick(sniper,spy,kritz etc.) Overall Id love to see new map like foundry or crroisant but obscure is just fun to play. Always cheerd me up when I played it.
tl;dr
Yay for obscure, big nay for gravelpit
cp_standin
=( Gravelpit :s
Gravel Pit rule change:
For Gravel Pit golden caps, only A is in play.
As soon as Team 1 captures Team 2’s point A, the time is noted and Team 1 becomes the defending team. Team 2 tries to beat that time for the golden cap victory.
Benefits of this rule change:
– Golden cap rounds become a lot faster, no more B & C grinds
– Makes teams learn and demonstrate new skills in attacking/defending an otherwise 99% irrelevant part of the map
I have the solution. Let’s reduce the map pool to 4 maps! ^.^
Also I would like to throw in some old memories: “DON’T PUSH, IT’S OBSCURE”
Me voting:
ok, croissant. lets see screenees… fuck, is it payload or just a shit? –
gpit. no, nobody plays it. more than, got enogh of all-round engineering and other “nice tactics”. –
turbine. good, but nobody plays it on pcw. –
obscure. played it actively on pcws and enjoyed it. +
foundry. played it on a cup. pretty enjoyable. +
4x Gravelpit maybe GeaR?
I didn’t even see that there was a poll :S
“ok, croissant. lets see screenees… fuck, is it payload or just a shit?”
What?
what’s the point in even putting maps into the pool that are under 50% approval
what’s the point of a vote anyway. People are dumb, so why not let the dumb people with power decide for the dumb people without power.
“What?” I think it looks like some payload maps. At least on your screenshots.
why cant it just be granlands?
Holy shit, you guys sure hate fun!
Before I got into competitive tf2 I always heard from friends that the yuropean community was full of boring people that hated any kind of changes and diversity. I didn’t believe it but every week that goes by I become more aware of that reality.
I mean, you managed to ban every unlock, there’s absolutly no diversity in the map pool (no KOTH, no CTF) , now you even want to get rid off the only current map that offers a different and interesting play style (gpit). What’s next? Season 13 map pool will be cp_badlands only, original banned again, no unlocks allowed, no diversity, same old stuff everyday, until the prem matches get 10-20 live viewers. I hate to say this but it seems you are the ones killing tf2.
Take a look at the US scene, every match from ESEA-I is so much more interesting and diverse, with different opportunities and playstyles depending on the map and unlocks used. From a tf2 comp fan and viewer viewpoint any ETF2L match is 10 times more boring than any ESEA match.
“you managed to ban every unlock”
wrong, there is medlocks
“no KOTH”
stupid non stopping dm fest
“no CTF”
cap 1 time and sit on ur intel with hw, engi, sniper, that sounds fun
“every match from ESEA-I is so much more interesting and diverse”
yeah, if u like watching people run around and shoot things
tehgnarr you’re a mong
also obscure horrible map 2/10 wouldn’t bang
“wrong, there is medlocks”
Like if my point had anything to do with medlocks, but sure looks like the next step.
“stupid non stopping dm fest”
I prefer to view it from the viewer view point, and from that side it’s one of the most entertaining to watch, unpredictable, and emotional match style.
“cap 1 time and sit on ur intel with hw, engi, sniper, that sounds fun”
Depends on the rules, but it has so much potential to explore, I could see it being one of the most entertaining match styles.
“yeah, if u like watching people run around and shoot things”
If that’s what interesting and diverse means for you.
nooooooooooo :( gravel :(
“Depends on the rules, but it has so much potential to explore, I could see it being one of the most entertaining match styles.”
CTF doesn’t work well with tf2
It doesn’t have the speed so it’s too easy to turtle with sentries etc. in your intel room.
“I prefer to view it from the viewer view point, and from that side it’s one of the most entertaining to watch, unpredictable, and emotional match style.”
I’ve only played a view KOTH maps but I enjoyed them. I’d love to see them in competitive play, however we should choose maps based on how they are to play, not how they are to watch. The players are more important than the spectators (face it, tf2 is never gonna be a spectator game like Quake or Starcraft). I would like to see a KOTH map tried in Europe though.
“Like if my point had anything to do with medlocks, but sure looks like the next step.”
No.
You don’t seem to understand the point of a whitelist. Valve created a well-balanced game and then pumped out unlocks with very little thought for some of them. The reason we have a whitelist is not to ruin fun – it’s to make a balanced game. It’s competitive for christ’s sake. If I wanted to play some imbalanced game for the shits and giggles I’d play pub (and I do every now and again). We can only allow a few unlocks; firstly to keep the game as balanced as possible and secondly so we don’t have a vast unlock list which no-one can remember.
Using a whitelist makes the game more balanced and much more competitive.
@ Stark
I think if you don’t believe tf2 is going to grow as a spectator game then who will believe?
Myself, I enjoy way more to watch any kind of tf2 match between 2 good teams than any quake, starcraft, cs match or whatever game it is. And I think all these kinds of barriers artificially created by all of you to prevent the game from being much more entertaining and enjoyable to watch are just unnecessary and if anything they just dumb and numb the game down for all the potential viewers or comp fans.
“You don’t seem to understand the point of a whitelist. ” “Using a whitelist makes the game more balanced and much more competitive.”
But I’m not complayining about the whitelist and I do understand the point of it, there are some items which just wouldn’t fit at all in comp play (and probably should’nt fit as well for the rest of the pub ccommunity). There are ridiculous weapons that shouldn’t be even on the original game, let alone comp play, but there are some other that turn the game into a much more entertaining thing, allowing for specific strategies, some amazing plays and overall just work in favour of a better game. I agree completly with the whitelist, just not how stupidly strict it is.
We got enough holywars about what unlock must be allowed and what banned. And it was after every update and before every season. Your skill must be the (only) way you win, but not a lucky choice of unlocks. Thats what a copetition is. And continous changing of unlock rules is not acceptable too.
haters gonna hate. Obscure is a good map, and from the poll is the least shitty one :) Also i prefer old snowy obscure rather than shit remake which was horrible to play T_T
gpit <3
every season u crying on this gravel and u still voting for this shit
Kaneco you are seeing this situation only from spectator pov, but most top players will not have fun playing viaduct with some crazy unlocks. :)
LETS PLAY ARENAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
the best mod on tf2 bye
No well, no freight
i am dissapoint
I voted for croissant and obscure since i have never played any of them in a competitive scenario, but on the other side i would like to do so. Sad to see that croissant didn’t make it, since it would’ve been more appealing to play that. But i’m fine with obscure. Also i feel there should be maps that are hard to push. It would simply be boring if the attacking team always has an advantage. It allows for some interesting spy/sniper plays, etc. At least i’m assuming that it will. :)
Plz, plz, plz, gravelpit bo2.
FFS , why gpit again? Y?!