General community attitude
March 10, 2009
Goodbye, DeNeusbeer!
Last Sunday was one of the worst days in the history of this league: DeNeusbeer, former Head Admin, decided to leave our staff. The whole team would like to thank you for all your help, all the work and all your thoughts and ideas – the ETF2L wouldn’t have grown that much and well without you.
General community attitude
We have no problems with a free, open minded discussion within our community, nor to change a decision when it is obvious that a very big part of the community disagrees with our initial decision. There are lines that should not be crossed though, and in the matter of the Sandman one of these lines was crossed by several members of the community.
Whether the statements made were serious or meant to be a joke does not matter to us. We consider this kind of behavior to be unacceptable and wish to make a statement here that we will not and never accept this.
When there are problems with members (players, teamleaders or administrators) from our community these should be solved in a mature and friendly way, without any flaming, threatening and/or other kind of asocial behavior.
On two cases we decided to set a point and agreed on a 3-month-ban. Both affected users, cube [Profile] and Rynex [Profile], were informed. Both reacted quite gently and said they can understand and accept our decision.
Posted by 
content rss
Did you leave cause of the flaming going on, or “just for the lulz” ? :( Sad day indeed.
DeNeusbeer thank you for everything that you do for us. bb :/
Terrible that people in this community don’t appreciate exactly what it is that the Admins do. They check all results, scheduling games, working out cups and fun cups and get sponsors – all for free.. and on top of their daily lives. All they tried to do was make a decision that would increase possibilities in TF2, and they’ve been shot down for it.
Although it might not have been the greatest choice, who cares. It’s been changed, but there was no need for the attitude of some members :/
deneusbeer, you were a very good admin
Good Luck …
I’m sorry to see DeNeusbeer leave the admin squad as he was always available and willing to help anyone out with queries regarding the league. Great guy, i reckon he will be sorely missed. With regards to the community attitude, yes I’d agree there was a lot of childish comments regarding the sandman issue, esp frm the top clans, which was unfortunate. It just goes to show that just because you’re in a top team with so many supporters and occupying such a high position in the community, a bit of tact when making opinions known is still lacking. But like I posted in the previous news post, this is the internet after all. I know, that’s no excuse but someone’s gotta be the bigger man here, and I thought the Admins were.
Even with the community outburst on the Sandman issue, the Admins could’ve behaved equally childish and held fast to their decisions, but they didn’t. They reverted their stance, and that does take guts.
As for the leaving, i reckon he should’ve weathered the storm, but I’m sure anyone will be shaken after devoting so much of their time for no reward, and still getting abused for 1 wrong decision. Just because we play with digital avatars that shoot other people and ‘dominate’ them, doesn’t mean we’re men yet. This should be a wakeup call for many.
I wholeheartedly support this admin decision.
For a while now I have been aware of our dark passenger, Arvin “cubeth” Polakski, and his deviant ways; I’m sorry it came to this.
I would like to apologise to the admins and their families, on behalf of team, for any distress caused by the whole despicable incident.
Let this be a lesson to us all.
cube saying i disagree, die admins and him getting banned is wrong and fail :/
i’m drowning in sarcasm ^
Thanks to DeNeus for always being there for my ETF2L needs.
I think the 3 month ban is a bit too harsh for such a minor violation, should have just given a warning and revoked his forum rights or something, now you’re punishing the whole team. I’ll leave it at this though.
I’m sorry to see DeNeusbeer go, gl hf
There is a line and no offence kev but some of the things said on the sandman comments we’re just ott, put it into perspective if someone said half the things to ur face that was said on here I for one would kick their heads in :p
“We have no problems with a free, open minded discussion within our community”
Haha, don’t bullshit us, anyone that has ever even tried to post anything even slightly negative towards any subject matter you’ll get warned, edited and deleted six ways till sunday. I mean, it’s a private forum and the admins have any right to govern it as they desire (whether they want to harm their own league/forum is their business), but at least be straight up about it.
i say perm ban for cube and all of wotr2!
Shame to see you leave ETF2L neus, you were a top admin!
[…] går att läsa att två personer – cube och Rynex – bestraffats med tre månaders avstängning. Från ETF2L.org: When there are problems with members (players, teamleaders or administrators) from our community […]
i say perm ban for cube and all of wotr2!
and all EX wotr2 too ofc. Could be infected already.
Fucking lol :D I have to agree with Bash on this one, you cant say one negative thing on these forums and now you cant even say a fucking joke without getting banned (on rynex’s case) :D
If this means that daykiller is back in charge, I’m delighted! He is and always has been the best man to steer ETF2L to the right direction imo :)
idd waebi, ban me admins!
can we tell neus to die now?! :D?
what a joke
idd, numlocked, nice to see u like the guy who made this leage, what about u leave it now too
A damn shame, DeNeusbeer, ETF2L will miss u. Some of them just doesnt know it yet.
Jesus Animal, I was joking lol
place and time just wrong numlocked, cant u see
Seems DeNeusbeer did A lot of work fixing matches etc etc. Too bad he is leaving :/.
Also too bad people have nothing better to do than discussing a silly sandman and also trying to be funny in a stupid way..
that was the joke animal.. you’ve ruined it, gtfo..
What a major FAIL if you have to explain your “joke” to ANYONE.
We have no problems with a free, open minded discussion within our community
Don’t you think that is rather hypocritical? Banning two people for writing OBVIOUS jokes is neither “free” or “open minded”. These admins needs to buy new SARCASM DETECTORS, as theirs seem to major malfunctions.
I was going to type a really long post about silly nerd kids trying to be funny, but i just cba. Please show some respect and if you cant, just shut it. Learn how and when to make a “joke”.
Pity DNB leaves the team, top bloke, does such a big amount of work (also for GoT)
Sad to see Deneus go.
Can’t say I agree with the bans though.
pity DNB left the team :x
However I don’t agree with the bans either. Sure the league is being privately run and being being ran by people who give up their free time towards it, but still, do remember how long 3 months is for some “attitude” problems. This is the internet, 25% are retards, 25% are under 14, 25% are trolls and the rest still have abnormalities! I don’t see the big problem, generally stuff said on the internet should not be taken to heart.
I dunno, guess I just feel 3 months is a little long. 3 weeks sounds more right!
If people can’t behave and go as far as threaten the admins (or anyone else for that matter) they deserve to be banned.
Seppo and Bash. You can disagree on things and criticize on something but then do it in good polite way. No need to go to kick and shouting just because this is the internet.
Thanks for every single minute you spent for the ETF2L DeNeusbeer.
ye, I must say DNB was a person with whom it was pleasant to speak, always available and friendly. gl deneusbeer
wow. I thought this was a free speech zone.
I guess not
Bye Bye DeNeusbeer :'(
“I thought this was a free speech zone”
please :P
What does “free speech” have to do with statements such as wishing death upon the entire staff of the etf2l-league? Some might find it funny and amusing, perhaps due to some problematic mix of the different substances in the brain — others might find it tasteless, lame and reason for medical treatment, along with a visit to the local judge, for making threats on peoples life.
Sifting through this kind of BULLSHIT with “sarcasm detectors” is not only too much to ask, it should not be necessary. As someone put it, “Get a fucking clue and shut the hell up before I smash your face” [SIC] would be something appropriate to write here, but since that’s not very friendly — I’ll just leave it as is.
Guys lets just leave it as it is! No need for flaming or whining as whats done is done now.
Very sad to see DNB go, wont be the same without you dude.
so you think its right that the ruling class (admins) can restrict what the common man (us players) can say?
sounds a bit like fascism to me…
gryzor, just stop it now. the admins were responsible for all the bad mood. they had to expect it either by setting up a rule against the will of the the community majority which felt like a true punch in the face. the bans are ridicules. they were in no way seriously meant.
Kop: Ehm havnt the community just shown that whinning can change etf2l? :)
The problem with this statement is pretty obvious. ETF2L is suppose to be the community-driven TF2 site, and when you make a big deal and point finger like this, you’re working against it.
This wasnt the first and will neither be the last time ppl will oppose to a ETF2L decision. If you make improvements, good choices ect. you (the admins) will be praised, and if you fuck up, you will flamed. And if a user on ETF2L fucks up (like writing death threads or whatever, didnt read) then you obviously ban him or remove his ability to make comments. No need for the big fuss – esp not when the reason for the fuss was a bad decision by the admins.
This is basicly how all online communities works.
Crusa: “Seppo and Bash. You can disagree on things and criticize on something but then do it in good polite way. No need to go to kick and shouting just because this is the internet.”
Remain silent if this is how clueless you are instead of making baseless assumptions on my behaviour. There is a clear double-standard regarding useless posts that are positive versus useless posts that are negative, which is somewhat understandable as it’s the norm in bad forums all over the net, but constructive criticism is dealt with without remorse as well. Furthermore, you shouldn’t have to be required to jump through hoops and bow your head in shame repeatedly if you want to comment in a dissenting manner.
Flaming is an unavoidable part of internet communication, even more so in gaming communities due to the concentration of young, competitive, ego-driven males.
Were most of the comments on that thread rude and offensive? Sure. Was there any real malice or a genuine threat from the two banned players? Absolutely not. Everyone who read the comments knows it. The admins know it. But you got your feelings hurt and wanted to exact some petty revenge. Gratz.
A warning or a short ETF2L site ban would have been more than enough punishment, but the really baffling thing is that apparently many admins were pushing for 1 year bans(!) and think they showed restraint in limiting it to 3 months. Ridiculous.
Grow a thicker skin and get over yourselves.
Okay, i actually read all the comments now, and im sorry but i reversed my ban policy. Did you seriously ban one for making 2 well-argumented comments, and throwing “Damn right Seppo. Revert the Sandman change or I will physically kill each and everyone one of you.” in the middle as a joke? Even if you take it serious, its not even made towards the admins.
Worst possible handling of a bad situation created by themself. I hope the new head admin will clean up on the stab, too many have completely lost connection to the TF2 players and community. Unfortunatly im afraid these induviduals are on the high seats in ETF2L.
If people can’t behave and go as far as threaten the admins (or anyone else for that matter) they deserve to be banned.
Seppo and Bash. You can disagree on things and criticize on something but then do it in good polite way. No need to go to kick and shouting just because this is the internet.
You didn’t read that thread did you, because I was responding in a polite way.
I got banned because I said that the admins would be “killing themselves”. This is a common phrase, which is a analogy that is often used in most of England to suggest that they would be hurting their image. They simply misunderstood or misinterpreted this, but I assume that is a result of differences in our society. You all seem to be forgetting that the meaning of words can change somewhat drastically between people, and not just communities or even countries.
Seppo called this out as a joke, and I responded with a sarcastic and OTT remark for a joke. There was seriously no ill intent and I’m not the owner of a cruise missile system that can hit any home in Europe.
I do have a lot to say on this whole thing, but I really just don’t care enough to argue. A ban is a ban, and I somewhat agree with the admin’s decision, even if they are dishing them out for something like this. The line does need to be drawn somewhere, and me and cube were the only ones beyond that.
I would appreciate it that you go back and read my “offending posts” and judge for yourself before you start describing us with absolutes.
Just ban them from the forums and commenting on news posts.
Not for threatening to kill people. For being unfunny and/or worthless.
Pathetic bans. Nice, your e-penis is really big now.
I can find some more such comments, maybe not ,,die admins” but ,,die xxxx” Can you ban them for 3 months please?
IM GONNA KILL MYSELF AND YOU CANT BAN ME FOR THAT