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Quoted from repu

http://i.imgur.com/02PQyrQ.png

LOL

Quoted from ducky

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Let the weed burning commence…

On a side note:

Any rules put in place by saloon.tf will have much more of an impact against “match fixing” than anything that we could come up with.

After all they have the control over your valuables.
The potential loss of items that you’ve committed by betting on fixed matches aswell as a follow-up ban on the site itself may be enough of a deterrence.

Of course this is just one of the many ways that one could go about this.

I’m confident in cherrys ability to develop a ruleset which can prevent these kind of malicious activities… he’s somewhat german after all ;P

I am confident Cherry can do it as well, point is to have a clear black and white rule in place as a preventative measure for ETF2L as a league.

Admin discretion is a rubbish clause to enforce rules, no transparency nor consistency. Obviously Match Fixing is frowned upon but what is the punishment? Player gets a season ban? Year ban? Team gets major warning? In what ways will it be disallowed?

Here copy + paste to your rule page:

Match Rules 3.10 – Any attempts of purposely manipulating the outcome of any game by either an individual involved or a third party to gain a profit (Known as “Match Fixing”) will be punishable with lengthy bans for players + teams involved.

Clear and cut, no issues. Zero tolerance, strong announcement of intent for preventive measures from the beginning.

Quoted from Fuxx

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Zero tolerance in enforcing a rule against an offence that literally cannot be proven unless one of the people directly involved in profiting from it blabs out (why would they??) and provides screenshot evidence…

lol

Quoted from Gubbins

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, many issues.

Technically, playing in a match that has money on the line is an individual purposefully manipulating the outcome of a game to gain a profit. That’s not match fixing, that’s not clear-cut (the actual expression) and “lengthy bans” is also a vague term.

Match fixing cases are not clear-cut, admin discretion is to stop people from abusing the rules and there is no cookie cutter for loopholes. I trust Sonny and Ash, along with the rest of the team to come to as close to the best possible solution that we can, it’s a shame that you don’t.

Definition of match-fixing is a technicality, manipulating a pre-determined outcome is essentially the definition of match fixing, my wording can be edited slightly to suit that arrangement.

“lenghty” bans is only vague as a disposition to the length of the punishment, it can easily adapted to fit the needs of the rule-break.

Essentially what is needed is an actual strong message, from the off-set. You can’t dance around the subject and then be faced with a massive debate and dilemma when it inevitably comes up, act with strength now and put some rules into action and in the future you will be able to make a confident determined decision.

Although Fuxx does raise a good point about how one would evaluate the evidence in such a case. I could throw the game versus Premtech on Sunday, ask a few random steam friends with no association to TF2 to bet a load of stuff on the game, trade them some items and there would be little way of tracing it or being able to prove anything.

This is a real issue that will effect the league at some point in the future, it needs to be addressed now and planned for now, a quick change to the rules is a good start. And Sonny Black and Ash are great in many areas but they can’t be expected to see everything or deal with everything.

Quoted from RaNDoMiZe

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1. Obligatory screenshots of players’ trade histories.
2. Checking suspicious cases.
3. Applying bans to violators or those who fail to submit screenshots.

This would of course require a truck load of time and effort before and after all matches. It’s also only checks for trades done through steam with the players’ main accounts so someone could theoretically use another account to bet and then cash out via paypal etc. Even ip-checks wouldn’t be enough as you could just ask someone else to bet for you.

There are too many holes in the system so the best solution would be to just make violating the rules extremely bothersome in some way.

Screenshots have zero value and are too problematic. The first step is making some clear rules then we can worry about friends betting for their pals.

Quoted from Hildreth

Although Fuxx does raise a good point about how one would evaluate the evidence in such a case. I could throw the game versus Premtech on Sunday, ask a few random steam friends with no association to TF2 to bet a load of stuff on the game, trade them some items and there would be little way of tracing it or being able to prove anything.
.

You could also block team members on betting on matches that involve their teams, but then again, who stops you from using multiple smurfs in order to get all the stuff?

Thankfully the game isn’t as big as, let’s say CSGO, so the chances of people actually throwing a game for some money are near minimum, but if a situation like that arises, again, the size of the community will probably ensure that that person will never be able to find a team again. It’s all gentleman’s agreement until we find a guy trying to honestly profit off of saloon.

Other thing that I wanted to point out is that you can see people’s names on bets. That is completely unecessary. Because community is so small you will be seeing nicknames that you know already, and those people have no obligation on voting for your team – they vote for who they want. That can create some animosity. Obviously, some people can react to it lightly and just take a joke, but some might not have such reaction. I’d just suggest giving the ability to hide your nickname from public.

Bump.
Can you or can you not bet on your own team?
Not sure what admin discretion rule says exactly and even though some people are concerned I don’t mind as long as it doesn’t encourage match throwing. Just figured I’ll ask instead of adding people who bet on their teams saying that ETF2L doesn’t have clear rules so it may not be the best idea :o

Quoted from Coleman

One year ban if caught. Just the same as cheating.

This.

Why would even talk about players being able to bet on their own games? If a players bets on his own game, then 1 year ban like coleman said and/or remove some amount of points from the team.