Who locked Arx's thread?
Created 11th April 2009 @ 12:37
Not really P32, people who know how to cheat will hardly be spotted, they’ll configure their aimbot to be as natural as possible. A lot of people in div1 wouldn’t see anything. They have experience with the game, not with cheats.
Anyway, I think the ban of those ETF2L cheaters will probably also come from a few others leagues after they see the evidence.
ban you racist!
P.S. zee germans will kill you numlocked.
yes p32´s idear actually is good and will be concidered ofc.
Just to mention it, not every div1 player got an idear about that kind of stuff – many of em just play.
But if anyone with experience or knowledge about it wants to apply – go ahead, send us your application.
i am not able to spot cheaters and i worked my way up =)
What is the difference between having 5 trusted players from the community looking at the demos but not allowed to share them, and having the admins look at it? iirc the admins are (almost) all trusted members of the community…
That said; +1 for letting the team see the demos under a draconian non-disclosure agreement. Like, they share them with anyone else and the entire team gets permabanned and no demos will ever be shown to anyone again.
Harsh measures there, seraph O_o
In that case someone could just give out the demos to get the whole team pbanned, which would be shit on the other members
I suppose most top players can spot basic things. But you need to have tried cheats to spot some specific things. Like half a year ago someone reported a cheater in a pickup. One of the tells was the he sometimes just stood still ducking for several seconds. The reason for that apparently was that to access the cheat-menu you had to hold Ctrl (or Shift) which is the same button that makes you duck. I had no idea about that before someone told me.
i have a question Winneh, what happens if one of the admins doesnt agree? I mean is this something all of the admins have looked and agreed on? Is this a certain percentage? And how many admins need to look at the demo before this call can be made. Being more transparent on these things will allow the community to accept this more openly.
Basically it would be nice to know your system of judgement and who is the jury for which case. I’m certain not all admins have had a chance to involve themselves in this. This would be to avoid that only 1 or 2 admins have made this call without checking with the others.
Oh and dont get me wrong, I’m very happy you guys are giving us a cheat free environnement the best you can. Just hoping its done well :)
lol F2 :p
Tbh I think that despite all the “some will say – HAX, others will say – NO HAX” the demos should be given out to the public…That thing about cheaters being able to correct themselves is a load of crap to be honest. If you’re cheating and you get caugh, no matter whether you know or not what tipped you off you change your methods, it’s as simple as that. The community can argue as much as they want, It’s part of the process, same things happens in court (although I know it’s a bit strange to compare both situation they both have the same basic principle), but anyway, there’s no harm in easing people’s minds rather than causing a flame fest over some stupid rule, which is what is happening right now.
There’s something the admins have to face here, you’re all humans and I’m not implying anything when I say that: You make mistakes. The more sophisticated the cheaters get with their ways of cheating the bigger the room for someone to make a mistake and wrongly label the guy as a cheater/non-cheater.
Just my 2 cents.
Since when is evidence against a cheater ‘sensitive’ material… It’s not like it’s his bank account details. It’s an online computer game! It’s not like it’s going to effect the families of those involved. Again, me posting that a player is getting banned is hardly sensitive material. It’s not like he can run away before it’s too late. The fact that you didn’t want me to write what I wrote only suggests that you wanted to make a giant post on Sunday listing all the cheaters you’ve caught in the week. This being disclosed a day early makes no difference apart from denying you of your glory thread at how awesome you all are at catching cheaters.
This worries me as if you wanted the glory, you are doing it for the wrong reasons and if anything, it would appear like you have set yourself a schedule to catch a cheater by Sunday which could mean the opinion could be clouded or a conclusion reached before evidence is sufficient. I’m not saying this is the case, it’s just part of my way of thinking.
Also, releasing demos isn’t going to help cheaters evade getting caught. If there is a STV running a cheater may as well asume it’s recording. If there is a spectator, they may as well asume the spectator is watching them.
As for my experience in catching cheaters, sure, I may not be as experienced as you, but what exactly…. is your experience with catching cheaters? Did you take a class on it? I constantly see cheating in publics, I have experience with high level of competitive gaming and I know realistic boundaries of what is capable play and what ‘assisted’ play looks like. Sure I’m not going to get every call right and I trust all of your guy’s opinions, but what is the harm in cementing that trust by prooving to us that you have made a correct call.
So far the only arguments I’ve seen is that by showing us a demo, cheaters will be more aware of your techniques in catching them. Even if this were remotely true, who cares, it might even deter people from cheating in the first place. We aren’t even asking you to highlight the specific ticks in a demo that lead you to beleive that he is wallhacking (that would be your techniques). The community can judge for themselves but if enough people said hey… all of these can be explained, or I saw nothing dodgey, that might be the time to start explaining examples. All we need is the game/games you’ve based your opinions/evidence on.
Other than that, all I see is a general level of stubborness that says ‘We are right, we don’t need to proove ourselves to you’.
Anakin, while I do agree that I might have exaggerated, I still believe that by knowing the game well enough, I can tell when someone is doing something out of the ordinary. That’s also why I think only Division 1 players should have a say, as you have to play the very best to really know what is considered “too much”.
f2, I’m not saying it’s easy, and yeah, some of the really good cheaters are extremely difficult to detect… The line between playing well and being a cheater is getting smaller and smaller. That’s why I believe 2 sides should have a say regarding a specific demo: Those who are experienced with cheats and finding them, and those who are experienced with the game at its highest level.
seraph – While I trust the ETF2L crew, and if they claim a player is cheating I will believe them, they represent ETF2L, not the community. This entire issue is based on the fact ETF2L will not give out their evidence publicly. I understand why they won’t, but the community can never be sure that way. The only solution I see is form a group which will represent the community, and when this group says someone is cheating, he is – and there’s no need for a proof.