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Quoted from irfx

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Ha, winning i46 with vanilla settings NA teams easily showed that a bit of their “randomness” aka unlocks do no harm to their skill.

and they don’t just allow every unlock do they dummy. I was saying that in reference to arx calling for ‘unpredictability’, which is a descent into randomness by its very nature.

I am a massive fan of the 6th cup unlocks, but cinnamon was utter aids

Quoted from MEGAMIDDIE

Kritz is too unpredictable, I believe we should ban it.

I was considering saying something so I may as well respond to this, even though you werent being serious. The main problem with unlocks in a competitive setting for TF2 is that they lack a sense of commitment and visibility. While I could explain in more detail, the short version is that you can switch around weapons whenever you want with no downside and it can often be hard (or in a lot of cases, impossible) to know what you’re up against prior to having to deal with it.

The Kritzkrieg on the other hand is pretty much the perfect unlock. It is both a soft counter to and hard countered by the weapon that it replaces, has no impact on the game until the charge is built and is incredibly visible (medibeam distinguishable from a distance, different model, gives the weapons it’s kritzing a unique effect). The role of the medigun combined with the fact that it’s a perfectly balanced sidegrade gives it a real sense of commitment: being behind on uber is a real disadvantage that lasts until (you force) the enemy team (to) makes a big mistake.

All in all though, lots and lots has been said on unlocks and at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter. Certain unlocks cater to certain styles and against certain other styles, everyone enjoys the game for different reasons and enjoy playing it in different ways. Some people will prefer playing with certain unlocks, other people will absolutely hate it. Allowing them will possibly bring an insignificant amount of people back to the game and drive another insignificant amount of people away. People arguing back and forth from biased viewpoints with undefined, loaded terminology (my favourite: “gamebreaking”) accomplishes so little. Just do another poll and go with what the majority wants because in the end it matters so little as to the end result.

Quoted from Chaplain

and they don’t just allow every unlock do they dummy. I was saying that in reference to arx calling for ‘unpredictability’, which is a descent into randomness by its very nature.

Look at ESEA unlocks: http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Competitive_item_restrictions

80% (or even more, I did not count them all) are allowed, but only less then 20% are being used. Why? Obvious reason is that rest 60% are useless or not at useful as popular 20%. So what’s the reason to ban them? It’s like a natural selection – useless unlocks wont be played just because they suck, that is why there is no reason to take care of them.

The other thing is broken unlocks (like pomson or phlogistinator being banned even on hl), that should be banned for clear reason. That is what arx tried to say pretty much.

Yeah, there are only 2 problems in this argument that will damage the community as far as I can see.

A) You should only allow unlocks which ADD something to the game, not the ones which don’t detract anything. Adding all the useless ones as well is, by definition, useless. If they get used they’re gonna ruin mixes/ get used to troll like you see allllllllll the time in pugna and euro dmixes when the whitelist is removed.

B) Don’t make it a public poll. Let the admins grow some balls and make a decision, agreed with or not, and that’s that. Sure, base it on public opinion but we’ve seen time and time again that whenever the entire community is allowed to vote, most people are actually angered by the compromise.

Quoted from irfx

[…]

Look at ESEA unlocks: http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Competitive_item_restrictions

80% (or even more, I did not count them all) are allowed, but only less then 20% are being used. Why? Obvious reason is that rest 60% are useless or not at useful as popular 20%. So what’s the reason to ban them? It’s like a natural selection – useless unlocks wont be played just because they suck, that is why there is no reason to take care of them.

The other thing is broken unlocks (like pomson or phlogistinator being banned even on hl), that should be banned for clear reason. That is what arx tried to say pretty much.

ESEA unlock list looks so sexy! It actually looks like they’ve thought about what works and what doesn’t, and I imagine that list is updated if anything is found to be overpowered etc… Soda popper would be a good instance of this. Seemed like a useless weapon until people realised you could use the minicrits on your pistol, then it was clearly broken and overpowered. Good to see it banned in the list.

cringe.

no one ever talks about it and we’re all fine with the ways things are (i.e. vanilla) until someone brings it up again for no real reason

Quoted from crouton

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Even though it’s a shit reason I’d say just ban the useless one so that mixes don’t go to shit because of whitelists.

Totally agreed and I dont think, its a shit reason. Mixes are a big part of the game.

+1 for gunboats as it is a balanced thing, which helps the variety of the game.
-1 for escape plan, as it has no disadvantages, would only buff the soldier.