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TF2 is enjoyable as it is, if people “plays it safe” when it comes to those 1billionwtfprizepot games I personaly dont find it lame, take the 1-0 scenario. Team A shoot lazors and pewpew the other team and they win the round, and therefore team A can set the tempo. The other team should adapt because they lost the first round.

Turtling mid with 2heavies2engineers during pcws isnt really fun for either teams unless you have somekind of “MUST GET SCREENSHOTS” fetish.

It might be a bit lame to spectators if team A camps mid in a css manner but holy f if it is 5 minutes left and you just lost mid you better start comming up with a plan quickly, you know whats gonna happen if you dont and its your fault.

tldr leave tf2 alone

Quoted from SnowiE

The losing team is always at a disadvantage in any game/sport, that’s what makes them fair. Do badly and you will be punished, forcing you to take risks or play a lot better than your opponent to get back on even terms. Think about chess, the more pieces you lose the less chance you have of winning the game unless you take some major risks with your most important pieces.

Of course, but the extent to which they are punished in TF2 is excessive and discourages pushing, causing long stalemates. Advantages to the winning team can be given in other ways, such as a mechanic to force the losing team to push. This would create a more dynamic game (see my suggestion on the 1st page coupled with faster spawn times and cap times for the losing team encouraging pushing and allowing them to backcap more easily/prevent backcaps by stacking the point).

Ideally, you would give the losing team a disadvantage that forces them to push, not one that discourages them from doing so.

Normalizing spawn times would also allow more strategy to be planned around them and would introduce some element of timing into the game, one thing that is sorely missed from other competitive games (SC2, Q3, etc.)

Quoted from kuma

The only time the losing team can push with an advantage is an uber or numbers advantage. With equal ubers, they are forced to uber first which puts them at a significant disadvantage.

This would be true for the winning team as well. Isn’t it a more general problem with uber mechanics rather then other game mechanics?

Quoted from RaCio

[…]This would be true for the winning team as well. Isn’t it a more general problem with uber mechanics rather then other game mechanics?

Sort of, but the winning team can be more confident trading players as they know they will respawn faster. Maps are usually designed so that pushing into CP2 is easier than CP3 in general as well.

Spawn times are only different after you cap 4th point and attacking last. Except for cp_well where it reduces to 6 secs from 10. And actually on gullywash I am not sure if they change even then, I remember something odd with them on that map.

A map maker will tell you that spawn times change not always to give the attacking team so much of a advantage but its to make up the difference in (travel) time it takes you to get to action as you normally have to walk further than the other team to do so.

Its a common misconception that there are (huge) spawn time advantages for attackers or defenders. On pretty much all maps the spawn times will be equal for both sides. Only when attacking last there is a spawn time advantage for the attacking team. This is because of the defending side have their spawn much closer to the point. The advantage for attackers on badlands is 5 or 10 seconds. Since their spawn is further away from the points this evens out (even being slightly in the defenders advantage). The distances are also pretty even on most maps, or at least the distances from the spawn to the point you own, even the distances from spawn to the opponents point are fairly equal. So if you are pushing from cp2 to cp3 you will have no major spawn disadvantage compared to pushing from cp3 to cp2 .

A controversial thought, but maybe the team holding cp2 should consider trying to push more often and find right approaches and tactics to push instead of only relying on countering.

Quoted from Sketch

[…]

medic escapes fight on his own gaining 99% uber with his melee. his team spawns and he is now at 60 or 70%, a disadvantage despite his efforts? no thankyou

maybe his team shouldnt have died

and he’d still have uber advantage anyway

No one is discussing unlocks, please keep on topic. I’d prefer not to have to start banning people for petty comments about the unlocks over the next month when we’re having a perfectly sensible discussion about other things.