Highlander Season 19 Preseason Cup Feedback

Created 30th June 2019 @ 18:55

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Get rid of Badwater, it’s the worst map in the pool by far and no “”””pro””” version will make it any better. Badwater will never be good no matter what anyone does unless someone reworked the entire last point. If you want to keep two payload maps, try Vigil or Swiftwater, preferably the former since the developer of the map is still around.

I haven’t played either Clearcut or Propaganda so I don’t feel like I’m in any position to say how good they are. I generally don’t like the pacing of 5cp in HL though, so I’d rather not do two 5cp maps and keep three koth maps, although I can see the unequal distribution between gamemodes here. If Clearcut/Propaganda are any good, I’d drop Warmtic over Coalplant for either of them, given the Wrangler gets banned. If not, I’d rather see Coalplant removed.

I’m in favor of all of the weapon bans. Would be nice if there’s a vote like last season.



I hope we won’t play any of these maps in the main season.
Propoganda was awful map, clearcut is a good concept but still bad comparing to other maps in the general map-pool.
If you want to do 2 cp_ maps, you should play cp_process which has been played for a lot of seasons and this was kinda ok
Proky and AlesKee, If you like playing badwater for 5 minutes, go for it, ban wrangler. But this is just dreadful spectating how all points of badwater are being pushed for 5 minutes without any resistance.

Cap Fordo

Ban wrangler is the worst idea in this preseason cup. Original pl_badwater very old, need a fresh breath of air – use new payload map… koth_clearcut_b10a – is a good map, but not for highlander.


just remove badwater already, its a terrible map in every aspect, replace it with borneo/vigil



In regards to the map pool I can personally see propaganda to be a solid map when learned, I don’t really lean too much on the koth map, but eh maybe maybe, I would really like to see a replacement for badwater, I would assume the wrangler was banned for the most part to “fix” or to make badwater “better” then not really. The map itself is just bleh imo, I’d rather want to see Vigil or something like that.

As for the weapon bans, I think wrangler would change a lot but in case of badwater it was still badwater and didnt really improve the experience of the map or countering sentries, Fists of Steel though could make a change, as heavy wouldnt be pretty much allowed to tank damage/be a human shield, leaving the only viable heavy melee to be Eviction’s Notice (or GRU if you prefer) which helps going through a to b but you get lowered health which is not the greatest thing if you ask me.

tl;dr: +propaganda, +-the koth map, —–badwater for vigil or something
not really behind banning wrangler and def dont want FoS banned.



Propaganda could be tried this season. Mid and last are generally ok. 2nd point is a bit akward for good holds though. Also map seems like its on the level process was when we first tried it in highlander. So it could be good and maybe it will get further then process got.

The koth map is pretty decent. There are some mayor issueses with sidelines and healthpack distribution. Also the entrances in the houses are a tiny bit weird. Its an interesting unique map though. Personally I would want to play that 1 more before deciding wether to put it in. Definitly if it doesnt make it in now I want to see it again in the next preseason cup.

Badwater without wrangler didnt change. The map is still shit. Sentry’s got more creative I guess. But it wasnt any different.

Koth map cancer

Quoted from samii

Koth map cancer




dont ban wrangler, wasnt a problem for entire time it was allowed in HL, theres been a trend of removing more and more unlocks, some i understand (machina, mad milk, jarate) but this one was never a problem,
problem isnt with the weapon, its with the map, remove warmtic and the problem is pretty much gone, wrangler was never a problem on any other map, matter of fact will make payload and a/d faster than it can already be which is just bad

if there is a bug with the fists of steel, ban it, bugged weapons can be and will be abused

dont remove badwater, theres a reason its in the map pool since the start of HL, you want to test something? test pro version, see how it plays out, both versions are good imo

cp_process plays much better than propaganda but i wouldnt mind playing it a season if the map maker will keep improving the map

tl;dr dont ban wrangler, ban fists of steel, keep badwater pls dont switch it to a random untested map like vigil if anything then pro badwater makes the most sense, -warmtic +process/propaganda

you end up banning 1 unlock because of a bug, fixing the problem with wrangler and allowing the balance to be on the map pool again with 2koth, 25cp, 2pl, 1a/d

stop relying on feedback threads, start doing your job as an admin and push for active questioning of prem leaders for their opinions on the subjects, maybe try and get them to meeting like global whitelist 6s does

Last edited by JackyLegs,




delete wrangler.

clean carp


Can we remove badwater from the map pool already ? The map and holds are stale and I don’t think the wrangler ban (although agreeing with it) would actually improve the situation too much.

Clearcut: I like the map more than coalplant or warmtic in all honesty, but it has some issues like scarce ammo and health packs. Would be worth a try imo.

Propaganda: seems like funny map, but the team we played against just threw the game, so I can’t really tell if it’s good or not. What some players noticed is that there is a significant FPS drop on it.

Wrangler ban: I hate this weapon so much, I want to see it gone…just in order to not see the same damn holds and strats on every payload map. The game has been the same for 9 years, can we make some changes already ? I agree that engi will feel even more useless, but at least the lack of responsibility would allow for some interesting plays sometimes.

tl;dr fucking remove badwater from the map pool please :(



wrangler bad



I’d like to see a replacement of badwater from the map pool, even if it’s just a variation like badwater pro. It’s a stale and boring map where everyone knows the meta at this point and no new intresting strategies are being made, this is not good for the community.
(then again I also feel upward is becoming a boring shitfest all the time, maybe change that into a variation too. There’s plenty of viable ones.)

I enjoyed Clearcut even if it feels a bit silly, sniper is not as powerfull as I figured he would be and it allows for intresting team setups to work instead of just “hurr put 40% on demo”.

Propaganda: Very much a 6s map and probably a very good 6s map. I like the map but I feel as if rotates take too long for this map to stay intresting and it’s gonna face the same issues as gullywash with endless stalemates. Then again my oposition ran 5 heavies on this map and we could still push them so I’m not too sure.

Wrangler ban: can we also remove jag as to make entirely certain level 3’s are not viable in any way after initial suicide wave. No but seriously engy is slowly becoming “that guy you have in the team to have 9 players”. If you ban the wrangler you might as well kill off the class immediately. I’m all for that but don’t go halfway.

tl;dr wrangler ban good, remove badwater



@clean carp while I do think that banning wrangler would make engineer more enjoyable in a way or another, I still think the increativity of most engineers is due to the map pool not being changed for over 4 seasons now, regardless of this however, engineers still find new things to do on these overplayed maps



badwater_pro won’t fix problems of badwater. sure, v12 or wrangler would make easier 1st and 3rd point but the last point is still broken. Even without wrangler we couldn’t push Feila for 5-6 mins? I know I know, Vigil or other maps are just worse. If we want to ban “broken” fos, why don’t we replace badwater? If you want to make double 5cp&koth maps, don’t take process. Propaganda is more like gullywash. 5cp but still might be enjoyable. Sadly, in that case warmtic would be removed but whatever I guess. I would remove product ( map even too small for 6s ) and as sniper main I can tell you, its cancer map

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