Highlander Season 16 Preseason Cup Feedback
Created 8th July 2018 @ 12:11
it is actually beyond me how anyone could possibly think the machina is overpowered
edit: it should still be banned because getting collaterals only happens on accident, but i maintain that the gun itself sucks ass
Last edited by snwdrm,
Idm if u ban or unban the milk, i like this weapon but if it does make a differnece on koth, Unban iron bomber i don’t really see the need to ban this even tho it was an upgrade , Crotch shot should remain banned for entirnity imo it shouldn’t even exist , Jarate is helpful don’t ban it pls, Unban mantreads, Machina is a bodyshot machine still a ban for this is kinda questionable for me.
Got rolled on first game and rolled 2nd game and got defualted on the 3rd game and apperantly we ended up getting a default win on the 1st game and ended up 1st place OMEGALUL
I honestly didn’t really notice the whitelist changes. Certainly all of them were less consequential than in previous cups (e.g. Razorback, Dead Ringer). Neverless:
Allow Mad Milk: Highlander is chaotic so allowing scout to have utility is fine. I feel Jarate is much more impactful anyway, albeit I don’t play on flank so may not have the full picture.
Allow Scorch Shot: It’s pretty annoying, but detonator is probably stronger overall. It should probably stay even though I have no great love for it.
Allow Iron Bomber: The differences with stock are minimal. If anything the reduced Blast radius makes it slightly worse for HL.
Ban Machina: Slightly nerfing sniper’s damage and frag potential can only be a good thing right now. Collaterals are super random too and not game enhancing imo.
milk and scorch shot are autistic weapons that just allow the player using them to play like a bot and be rewarded,machina removes the need for aiming at the head
Back when the darwin’s dangershield and vita saw were not allowed it was because it’d give the opposite sniper/medic an unfair advantage forcing the enemy sniper/medic to run it as well. I think the same argument applies for milk/jarate, throwing jarate or milk on the enemy combo while yours is pushing just gives an advantage, I also consider the milk a cheesy weapon to get a free kill on whoever gets hit by the milk, the current state of milk is broken as well, did I get hit by it or not?? sometimes it lasts forever and sometimes it immediately fades away, rng items like this should not be allowed.
I personally consider the iron bomber a straight upgrade because it’s not a situational weapon, literally every demo in prem/high runs the iron bomber and none of them ever use the stock because the iron bomber works better in any situation, and if the iron bomber doesn’t work they compensate with stickies. The iron bomber is just a lot more accurate and easier to predict people with compared to the default.
I dislike both Detonator and Scorch Shot and wouldn’t mind both being banned, but at least Detonator requires some sort of timing to properly hit people with it rather than splashing the ground or wall next to the player. Another thing to consider is that if you remove both of them it’ll be harder to deny a Sniper’s effectiveness by setting them on fire, forcing them to go for heals or extinguish themselves one way or another.
if pyro mains got good at using the detonator i’m sure it would be seen as a very gay unlock that needs to be banned as well. its way easier to jump with it as well compared to the pygmee skips you can do with scorch. I in my bias obv thinks you shouldnt ban scorch since who actually runs it besides me ? i’m p sure every pyro except sys on coalplant runs shotgun anyways and shotgun will always be more viable and effective in most situations, making the other two unlocks ok sidegrades.
and thats what good about sidegrades, theres actually a a sense of weighing the advantages and disadvantages for each unlock in situations. now iron bomber on the other hand just replaces grenade launcher in all situations, zzz
Last edited by Sacrilege,
Alright, here are my thoughts on the bans.
The Mad Milk ban is good as it is, since it just made it far too easy for the scout to track spies. That, and it gives free healing and makes most maps, especially KOTH maps too one-sided for one team. It basically turns the Scout into a second sniper wielding the jarate, but is much faster, and more of a pain for the Spy to deal with when his cover is blown by the milk.
The Scorch Shot’s knockback, splash damage and afterburn are an absolute pain to deal with. It’s basically a flare gun that removes all the skill required in timing your flares, and makes it into a mini-rocket launcher that sets your enemies on fire. The knockback and afterburn are the worst part, since the former stunlocks you if you’re in midair, and the afterburn lasts for far too long.
The Iron Bomber is fine as it is, and I don’t see much point in banning it because of the reasons stated. The explosions are easy to avoid despite the fuse time being lower, and it doesn’t bounce or roll as much as the stock launcher. Overall, I want it unbanned, due to it being just as powerful as the grenade launcher.
The Machina should be banned, and remain banned until it gets a proper rework that’s suited for this gamemode. Collateral kills are just completely random, and you can’t do much about it when your medic dies because of a lucky shot from the enemy sniper. In Open or Steel divisions, this weapon might be a good sidegrade despite you being unable to shoot without being scoped in first, but in premiership or higher divisions, it just becomes plain overpowered if the sniper has godlike aim, and manages to constantly ram headshots and collaterals consistenly. The extra damage is also too much of an upgrade, since it rewards the sniper for bodyshots instead of headshots, which is what should be punished for instead. Just plain ridiculous for a weapon, in my opinion.
The Jarate, I do not have too much of a problem with. It mini-crits, sure, but it’s primarily been used to track spies more than anything and dealing with them while the Pyro chases them. It also sacrifices one of their most powerful utilities, the Razorback, meaning they are much more vulnerable to backstabs from spies. That, and the enemy team can just fall back if they’re jarate’d, and let the effect wear off a few seconds later. It’s fine the way it is, and should be unbanned due to the spy being able to nullify or waste the sniper’s jarate on only one class if they get discovered or are heard uncloaking.
The Short Circuit, I am divisive on, but I will say, that it should be unbanned for testing purposes. For one, it costs a lot of metal in order to be used effectively, and is mostly used for situational purposes like clearing out stickies on a control point in KOTH or 5CP, or around a corner in a payload map. Even if the stickies are removed by the attacking team on Payload, the defending team can fortify the cart with an uber, or have a spy sap the dispenser to remove the metal. Defending teams will also have an engineer sacrifice one of their most useful utilities, the wrangler, for a weapon designed to counter spam from the Demoman and Soldier. All in all, it’s a decently balanced weapon, and I would like to see how it fares in Highlander. If it’s still not balanced, and needs some slight tweaking, I would ban it again.
Also, this season’s map rotation is the same one from Season 15. Can we pick some other maps instead, please? Thanks.
I also forgot to mention: The Scorch Shot’s mini-crit is complete boosh, and one of the reasons I despise the weapon itself as a whole next to the Machina and Mad Milk. It just makes it so that the Pyro deals way too much damage, and makes it too much of a hassle for the other team to deal with if they’re all set on fire.
idk I do think the scorch shot is pretty stupid – I literally run it when I want to turn my brain off and forget about aim whatsoever. Even the detonator requires a minor bit of brainpower. Didn’t mean with that it should be banned.
Seriously though, you guys really need to decide whether you’re banning things for being unfun to play against or only if they’re gamebreaking levels of overpowered. Traditionally HL has always done the latter, and I don’t think it’s worth it to change your paradigm dramatically when no one takes the gamemode seriously anyway.
Anyway – only ban machina imo. Sniper has always been the main problem of HL, he doesn’t need easier bodyshot kills to add to that.
Mad Milk: Ban – Can’t think of any situation where I would run stock pistol (or any other secondary) over this item
Scorch shot: Do not ban – Although I understand why people want it banned as it can be annoying to play against, I don’t think this is better than the detonator. It works better in lower divs/lobbies before players learn not to clump together or walk over scorch shots on the floor the same way they learn not to walk onto rollers as they get more experience.
Iron Bomber: Do not ban – I don’t think this is a direct upgrade over the grenade launcher in highlander as the smaller explosion radius is enough of a balancer in spam-friendly hl gameplay. Furthermore, since HL is more about running down the clock than fighting for captures, the long detonation time of standard grenades in chokepoints is sometimes situationally better for delaying enemy pushes (e.g. spamming into house on upward 3rd point defence or into lakeside mid when holding the point). If anything, the iron bomber is more of an upgrade in 6s.
Machina: Do not ban – I do understand why people feel this should be banned, but usually if a sniper is zoomed in for so long they have full charge, they should have hypothetically been outsniped by the enemy sniper in an even matchup. Also the lack of ability to shoot whilst unscoped means snipers can’t defend themselves as easily if they are jumped/rushed.
TL;DR – I don’t think weapons should be banned unless they have a significant impact upon the game and of these weapons, only the mad milk should be banned.
Last edited by Dandere,
Milk and Jarate should both be banned, because they turn pick classes into group killers. They can even throw the bottles over cover. Jarate is the worst one. Milk does nothing for someone at full health, but Jarate always deals the bonus damage. Jarate also takes much longer for a Medigun or Dispenser to remove it.
I think the Scorch Shot is too effective with too little effort and I would not be sad about a ban.
I think Machina is far too powerful in corridors and has no downside to make up for that. Just like Jarate, it breaks Sniper’s core trait of being a single target killer. It should be banned.
Iron Bomber is overall a bit better than stock but it doesn’t change the game in any way. I don’t think being slightly better than stock is a good enough reason for a ban, considering Crossbow and Ubersaw are far bigger game changers and would also need to be banned by those standards, at which point we’d be ruining the class. I also like Iron Bomber for being less random, which is a good trait for a competitive weapon.