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Yeah, I think the Short Circuit should be unbanned. There’s no reason not to use Wrangler whilst playing standard defensive Engineer, and both the Wrangler and Pistol are just as viable options for offensive Engineer. It allows for some intriguing meta game evolution as well, which makes Engineer more of a utility role in the same vein as Pyro.

Quoted from Permzilla

The argument about pub differing from comp in regards to Medigun pickups is completely different when compared to the same argument for weapons. In public play, the meta around picking up weapons is almost non-existent. Picking up a medigun in public play is hardly even noticeable, but in competitive play it is hugely impactful. The same cannot be said for weapons. Weapons have (effectively) the same effect in public and competitive play.

Regardless, I am not completely against this mechanic, but with Matchmaking still a way off I think it would negatively impact competitive TF2 in its current state. If this mechanic stays in the game, it will be added when the time is right (probably matchmaking).

For 1st paragraph: There is no direct comparison to gameplay between pub and comp, we have class limits and we don’t play majority of maps, unlocks aside that is also a huge change. The limiting factor for me is how different do we want to make the pub vs comp experience? I don’t mind it being very different currently, but it isn’t sustainable beyond era of matchmaking.
Also if we’re the competitive scene, we should lead how the game is played, if public players don’t know about the mechanic of picking up weapons on pubs then we show them the way and we show them how to use it and how to counter it. Ideal scenario random keen TF2 pubbers wanna step their Dustbowl game up, they see what the Pros do, we want them to copy us and do the things we do.

2nd Paragraph: I understand why the admins are banning it, but I think a bit more bravery and leadership should be shown. If you sit here listening to feedback from the same 20-30 gamers, some of whom have such little understanding of how the game is played anyway (from my experience, this also includes some admins who’s input had waaaay too much weight), you’ll have the game 20-30 gamers want, which will involve not a lot of change and banning the Pyro (Plz ban the Pyro). Set a vision of where you want comp TF2 to go, I feel like we’ve made enough mistakes banning unlocks to make the same one banning certain mechanics.

However I can respect the decision for now, but only if it’s reviewed next season. If we’re say here waiting for Valve to change the mechanic, may never happen, then they may throw it into MM.

Pragmatically the game balance is monitored and adjusted from the competitive side like how Valve does it at DoTA 2 or CS:GO.

Realistically we have no say in things. We have to work with the constraints we’re given.

Quoted from Bulow

[…]

For someone with 10,000 hours in the game and years of experience of the competitive scene, I find it sad that you would rather second guess what a mostly ignorant developer will do with the game, rather than lead the way in determining a balanced and enjoyable rule set for the here and now. If you want to change things just because you think Valve might like it, rather than for the good of the experience, you’re only validating them making poor design choices.

10,000 hours of TF2 has taught me a few things about this game. It is a fundamentally unbalanced game. When Valve attempt balances, they’re too too different for people to adjust too and they receive a huge backlash.
Several years in the competitive community has taught me that banning unlocks doesn’t work…but I have also learned that introducing them all at once doesn’t work either, HL Season 1 allowed everything and I was influential around that area. ETF2L’s policy of slowly introducing new weapons has actually worked well, it may get a backlash from people but I relish figuring out how to counter Beggars, or seeing how the Short Circuit will change Engineer etc etc.

For years we cry “Dev support”, they finally show us some interest, we snub their vision of the game. Our vision of the game “bores them” according to Robin Walker: http://www.teamfortress.tv/8952/?page=1.
I give ETF2L credit for their current whitelist because it shows a lot of progress in terms of slowly adjusting to the vision, but I want to see more.

And they may not be professionals in developing competitive gamemodes, but competitive players? Please, read any unlock debate thread and tell me you see innovation in the works. 6v6 enjoys it’s cookie cutter setup so much, any potential to change gameplay, for example with Mini Sentries was taken away. Snipers have been limited, Heavies have been limited, everything but Solly/Scout has been limited. This isn’t balanced, this is just what the community wants. We’re fortunate enough to have enough skilled gamers/personalities to ensure it’s watchable and enjoyable for some, but don’t get me wrong it’s not TF2, it’s a hybrid of TF2. People say Highlander is a mess, go watch a 6’s game in Mid/Low High if you want to see the same kind of mess.

Very few weapons I would determine as “unbalanced” currently, that exist with no trade off. One is the Pretty Boys Pocket Pistol, upgrade on everything the Pistol is, no trade off as the Atomizer can make up from the big advantage The Winger has of superior high jumps. Whilst the Milk offers a different option, the pocket pistol is just hitscan with no trade off – Therefore to ban it is the correct decision. More thinking like this, less about what you think is obnoxious gimmicky shit. I guarantee it, as time moves on more people will embrace unlocks and changes in the game. There is no statistic that exists to prove that allowing unlocks results in people to lose interest in competitive TF2. So my “wealth of experience” is telling me to lead the charge in persuading this community to keep embracing changes made by Valve, for better or worse.

Coalplant cup please.

Quoted from kKaltUu

We’re close to setting up the preseason cup, but skimming through the thread it shows a list of maps we’ve already seen in one form or another:
cp_edifice
pl_borneo
koth_ashville
koth_lakeside
cp_gullywash

Based on that, I’d rather do a quick one day cup with just ashville (if it’s the best replacement for warmtic per example) to test out the ruleset and whitelists.

And the maplist for S9 could be in one form or another (format quickly copied from s8):
1: pl_upward
2: koth_ashville + cp_process
3: pl_borneo
4: cp_gravelpit
5: badwater(pro!?!?!)
6: koth_product + cp_gullywash
7: cp_steel

No lakeside or edifice please. I know you want to kill highlander, but edifice is a bit extreme. No need to go full retrospective cup on us.

Quoted from Scissors

Why would anyone play ashville when coalplant exists, it looks better and works better

Some people apparantly have fps drops on coalplant. And Deox carries to hard on coalplant. :(