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[ETF2L] Swiss Style Tournament System
Created 13th November 2014 @ 00:57
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Since the other topic is going horribly off-course, here is a fresh one to discuss only the Swiss Style and the current style. No one day cups please :>
Quoted from Permzilla
I came up with a brief positives and negatives table from speaking with a few people (myself I am not familiar with the system)
+The ability to drop and undrop your team as you desire throughout the season. (or skipping a match)
+If lower divisions get good prizes next season, the prizes will be more valuable if there are smaller groups (not like s19 playoffs div1,2,3,4,5,6 instead something like Invite,Intermediate,Open)
+You can guarantee a clear winner of the group by playing x number of games (Although it cannot guarantee no ties in other positions)
+After the initial first match (its common to seed the first week so stronger teams play weaker teams) the matches should be closer because it pairs teams with similar stats.-No wildcards. All games need to be submitted by the week deadline so next weeks matches can be scheduled.
-The ability to reschedule matches that went through MC’s/rule violations will be gone.
-Once Week 2 starts, Week 1 is 100% finished no questions asked.
– Golden caps giving 2-1 would have to be scrapped, there has to be a clear winner. Winning a golden cap would have to give all the points to the winner.
-Harder to monitor progression through the tiers.I removed some of the points relevant to admins only. Feel free to suggest any more benefits or drawbacks or comment on the system overall. In contradiction to my previous post (circumstances have changed) this is well within the realms of possibility.
since season 20 will be mad dollar we should make the change to swiss tournament system at the same time
the pros you listed definetly overweight the cons
I don’t think having no wildcard/no rescheduling/no 2nd chance to play is a problem, since on the pros it says you can skip matches if you want.
Quoted from MEGAMIDDIE
I don’t think having no wildcard/no rescheduling/no 2nd chance to play is a problem, since on the pros it says you can skip matches if you want.
I misunderstood that at first just like you did.
“Skipping” in this case means forfeiting the match,giving your opponents a def win
Just to give you an idea of how tight the schedule might end up being:
If 2 teams play a match at 21:15 on deadline day (sunday) and the results aren’t in before 23:59 then the match gets nullified/coinflipped because we have to generate fixtures for the next week (which technically starts 1 min after the deadline,at 00:00 cet monday) immediately.
At least with the system we have right now where one week directly commences after the previous week ends
Last edited by ducky,
no, just no
why is this even up for discussion? You even told there are no resources for etf2l to code the site around a new system, not to talk about that its completely pointless.
There are way more important things we should focus and changing the league system isnt one of them
it’s just a discussion of positive and negative aspects on a system and how to adjust it so that it could potentially be viable for etf2l purposes
if you don’t want to partake in it just ignore the thread
Quoted from Kaneco
There are way more important things we should focus and changing the league system isnt one of them
http://etf2l.org/forum/feedback/new/
Last edited by ducky,
Quoted from Kaneco
no, just no
why is this even up for discussion? You even told there are no resources for etf2l to code the site around a new system, not to talk about that its completely pointless.
There are way more important things we should focus and changing the league system isnt one of them
Circumstances have changed, I wouldn’t have created this thread if it wasn’t possible.
Until you actually explain why this system is so bad I’m not really taking notice of it. I explained the positives and the negatives I could come up with in the first post, and we’re seriously considering this since we think the positives outweigh the negatives currently.
Quoted from Permzilla
[…]
Circumstances have changed, I wouldn’t have created this thread if it wasn’t possible.
Well, then use those resources to finish the site redesign/rework and not work on some pointless alternative league system.
Quoted from Permzilla
Until you actually explain why this system is so bad I’m not really taking notice of it. I explained the positives and the negatives I could come up with in the first post, and we’re seriously considering this since we think the positives outweigh the negatives currently.
I just wrote a fkin big ass post on the other thread how are u saying I didnt explain myself.
This is literally creating a problem out of nothing.
It’s an interesting idea but I don’t like the idea of there being no bonus points for GCs. I don’t think it’s fair for a team to lose all 3 points on a map when the game is that close.
Also I don’t know if this is just a problem which only my team has but in my experience getting my team to put their availability on the spreadsheet and then getting an answer out of the other team before the default date is set is nearly impossible. With such a tight schedule and no room for error or wildcards I think this could be an issue especially for the lower division teams or teams like mine where the team leader is inexperienced at running teams.
Last edited by Casino,
Quoted from Kaneco
[…]
Well, then use those resources to finish the site redesign/rework and not work on some pointless alternative league system.
[…]
I just wrote a fkin big ass post on the other thread how are u saying I didnt explain myself.
This is literally creating a problem out of nothing.
Different people can do different things, not everyone can do everything, unless I should be working on the site redesign instead of typing this right now?
I just had a quick read, you basically only stated one (2?) point which is that it’s hard to monitor progression and differentiate between big groups of teams. It’s true, that is one thing that can potentially be a negative of the swiss system. Is that enough to warrant the immediate dismissal of the swiss system? I don’t think so.
Evaluating both positives and negatives of both systems and looking at the overall picture is the way to go, which is what I’m attempting to do. Feel free to suggest possible downsides of the swiss system if you don’t like it, but you really can’t dismiss the system based on 1 point.
Quoted from Kaneco
[…]
Well, then use those resources to finish the site redesign/rework and not work on some pointless alternative league system.
I’d say a site redesign is infinitely more pointless than changing the core structure of the league itself.
Quoted from Permzilla
[…]
Different people can do different things, not everyone can do everything, unless I should be working on the site redesign instead of typing this right now?
I know what you mean, but if you’re thinking about working on a different league system that means u have the developing manpower to do it, so use it for more efficient and higher priority tasks. Update the custom plugin behind the scenes, add logs.tf support, add in-site stats, actually have a decent and structured cup history, rework the transfer page to actually be relevant, there’s plenty more useful ways you could put that manpower to use
Quoted from Permzilla
[…]
I just had a quick read, you basically only stated one (2?) point which is that it’s hard to monitor progression and differentiate between big groups of teams. It’s true, that is one thing that can potentially be a negative of the swiss system. Is that enough to warrant the immediate dismissal of the swiss system? I don’t think so.Evaluating both positives and negatives of both systems and looking at the overall picture is the way to go, which is what I’m attempting to do. Feel free to suggest possible downsides of the swiss system if you don’t like it, but you really can’t dismiss the system based on 1 point.
I dont think you read my posts correctly, I listed like 3 or 4 points not 1.
Also its completely pointless. It removes merit and a certain prestige from the players, its not the same thing, it also dilutes the “skill tiers” a lot more. The thread in question was actually created because of that issue, a huge skill disparity in div6. This system will make it even worse. You will have a skill tier comprised of basically 3-4 divs.
It makes 0 sense to me, look at all the sport leagues around you, look at premier league, la liga, national handball league, futsal league, basketball league, u name it, is there any reason they use the tiered division system other than it’s the most straightforward, skill representative, actually rewarding and easier to schedule and incorporate into an organization?
This whole issue sounds to me like someone wanting to change from the metric system to the imperial system, when the current system is just fine. It’s absolutely pointless and doesn’t fix the problems the exact thread that spawned this discussion prompted, on the contrary, it even makes them worse.
Quoted from Freakie
[…]
I’d say a site redesign is infinitely more pointless than changing the core structure of the league itself.
Have you looked at etf2l website? It’s straight out 2004, any potential sponsor that sees this is gonna be immediately turned off, now before you say “lol tf2 is ded no sponsors who cares”, presentation matters a whole lot whether it means to sponsors or newcomers that hear about the “biggest tf2 league in europe” and come take a peak, and you would be surprised at the amount of people who simply turn around because they just feel the site looks unprofessional/outdated.
Having a actual “updated to modern design standards” site should be priority number 1 of any dev staff in etf2l, why would u waste their time developing a different pointless league system (when the current one works fine) is beyond me
Last edited by Kaneco,
I really don’t like the cons at all with this system, the pros don’t outweigh them that much for me, even if wildcards are a bit bad when they are used incorrectly but you can’t expect every team leader to always be perfect and have everything always organized well for everyone, sudden surprises can happen.
Golden caps do give more points that can make a difference but if matches can only end either 6-0 or 3-3 then surely there would be several same placements on groups/divisions which would be a bit incorrect if one team could have gotten golden cap wins to show that they are better.
Of course, I’m not sure will there be a change to how matches will be played, if there will be only one map per week then you can disregard this.
Also the fact that results have to be given out by the end of the week, it would be a problem with matches if they are played on Sunday just before the deadline.
Surely the pros are good but not good enough in my own opinion, I would just keep the current system as it is.
Last edited by Bloodis,
I love the Swiss system. It’s giving you really nice feedback about your skill every time and you get much more intresting matches. Works really nice for 1 day tournaments or things were you only got 1 guy playing.
But I don’t think it could work here. It’s hell to schedule anything already with 12 people playing and 1 week time for it. Idk how they handel it in ESEA/CEVO/UGC but what happens if a team just doesn’t schedule or knows the opponents can’t play on the default play date? To me that sounds like there could be quite a few retarded moves to get a few defwins.
Last edited by TaylorSwiftFan100,
I just like to say that from my position as captain of the worst team in prem, everything below Div2 is an amorphous blob. You obsess about your division trying to justify some sense of superiority, but really they are meaningless shades of grey. You all look like ants to me.
I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit… it’s the only way to be sure.
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