Announcing Season 9! – Maps and Schedule

Date March 1, 2011

You’ve waited for a while, but now it is finally here: The 9th Main Season in ETF2L’s history! Today, we will reveal the signup schedule as well as the full map schedule. There are plenty of interesting additions this season, so be sure to read on!

Initially the plan was to run 2 full seasons before summer, but that plan was scrapped after some re-thinking and requests. With Season 9 starting in March there should be a smaller gap in summer, and plenty of room for other popular events, maybe even the most famous event of all…

But first, it’s time for the new main season. There will be a fresh wind of maps and rulesets that will hopefully bring a great season for everyone. So gather some friends, find a team, go practise and get ready!

Season 9  Signup Schedule:

  • Signups open: Friday March 4th
  • Signups close: Friday March 11th
  • Seedings published: Tuesday March 15th
  • Week 1 start:  Monday March 21st

The Maps

Besides classic old maps like Badlands, Granary, Gravelpit and Gullywash returning to the map pool, there are some new maps, some of which will be quite familiar to ETF2L veterans. With a map schedule that allows for easy preparation and training, the new additions will surely prove interesting. Update: Due to some disclarity, and requests on the size of the map pool, we will be switching Obscure out for another Gullywash and Badlands. Get training!


Coldfront. Some loved it, some hated it. For both groups the sun will shine happily! Warmfront is an updated version of Coldfront that implements a more natural theme but primarily brings some gameplay changes and improvements that should hopefully make the non-believers see light.

Download: cp_warmfront

A new and very intriguing map from Gullywash creator, Belgium Arnold. Like Gullywash, Bazillion has seen countless of iterations and betas, hopefully leading to a map that can rival its predecessor. As one of the more exotic maps in the pool it will certainly be interesting to see how it will fare. Be sure to check it out!

Download: cp_bazillion_rc2

An old-time favourite of the map pool has returned with a few twists and changes. First of all, a “pro” version of Turbine was released, which should make the map more dynamic and less confined as well as add some long awaited changes, like the ammo packs on middle. In addition to that, CTF gameplay using multiple rounds has grown in favour recently. Therefore, the new Turbine version will use the following rules:

Turbine rules (it really does)

Turbine will be played with a 30 minute map timer in a round based format. The first team to reach 5 flag captures will win a round. Like Gravelpit, the first team to win 2 rounds will be the winner of the map. If after 30 minutes the teams have won an equal number of rounds, the team leading in captures is the winner. If captures are also equal, a new game with first to 3 captures should be played to decide the winner.

You will not need to change server settings or restart the config between rounds, though you can set mp_winlimit 2 for convenience. The upcoming ETF2L config will handle the other settings by default (tf_flag_caps_per_round 5). With a new rule set and several improvements to the map this will surely be great fun!

Download: ctf_turbine_pro_rc1

Gullywash Update:
One of the most popular custom maps recently received an update. It features some bug-fixes as well as some improvements to CP1.  In spite of – or thanks to – the loss of the iconic water section, CP1 should be harder to turtle now. This updated version grants some great changes and will be used in season 9, so be sure to download it and use it in your future matches!

Download: cp_gullywash pro

Full Map Schedule:

  • Week 1: Badlands / Warmfront
  • Week 2: Gravelpit / Warmfront
  • Week 3: Gravelpit / Granary
  • Week 4: Turbine_pro / Granary
  • Week 5: Turbine_pro / Gullywash
  • Week 6: Badlands / Gullywash
  • Week 7: Bazillion / Gullywash
  • Week 8: Bazillion / Badlands
  • Week 9: Granary / Badlands

Stay tuned for more info on rules and prizes!


  1. Waebi: ‹Con› said:


  2. RaCio: GoT² said:

    Says the badmin!

  3. electro: Got Milk? said:

    i like!

  4. Fake said:


  5. Daggial: fap said:

    fucking hell, where is snakewater

  6. WAR: C00L said:

    Snakewater > Warmfront.

    I’m kind of disappointed :(

  7. phanTom said:


    TF2 IS DEAD.

  8. Alx: SNSD-jjang ♥ said:

    No freight :(

  9. GeneSIS^: [MIPC] said:

    no snakewater?

  10. Spike Himself: TC said:

    <3 mappool

  11. naMu: LAITON - KUKKO! said:

    snakewater > bazillion
    yukon > warmfront

    Now I am just waiting all the flaming and whining on forums about these two maps. In all honesty warmfront is not a bad map, but bazillion? Serious? it has potential and fun middle (just bit too tight area), but everything else is just shit and needs a lot of work to be a proper competitive map.

  12. AnimaL said:

    what about

    Week 1: Badlands / Gullywash
    Week 2: Badlands / Granary
    Week 3: Badlands / Obscure
    Week 4: Badlands / Gullywash
    Week 5: Badlands / Granary
    Week 6: Badlands / Obscure
    Week 7: Badlands / Gullywash
    Week 8: Badlands / Granary
    Week 9: Badlands / Obscure

  13. Daggial: fap said:


  14. ashkan said:

    Where the hell is 2fort?!!


  15. Martn said:

    Except for bazillion the map pool is superb!

  16. tasKu: e-famous said:

    what in hell, seriously.
    Who even likes obscure?

  17. Martn said:

    And gg Racio ill have to play week 8 and 9 in my exams now….

  18. RaCio: GoT² said:

    Snake has great potential

    Would love to see it next season maybe. Or in a MNM cup when a new rc version needs to be tested.

  19. illii said:

    Why would you remove freight :((

  20. clippen: keso said:

    Snakewater > Bazillion

  21. DouGie: CotC said:


  22. sieppox said:

    snake > baz
    viaduct > obsc

  23. evokje: WiK? said:

    lol bazillion

  24. aveN said:


  25. Exfane: EPA - TWIN said:

    still waiting on a new GC rule!

  26. naMu: LAITON - KUKKO! said:

    bazillion is so shit map, like no kidding, is it there only because arnold made it ? gullywash is awesome map, yes, but bazillion? :/

  27. KrimsonAer said:

    yeah, who likes playing on obscure? Did the finals tell us nothing? Really confused thatthat managed to get in and we miss out on Snakewater and Freight (at least freight has some people that actually like it after all)

  28. GeneSIS^: [MIPC] said:

    why adding new stalemate map like bazillion, we already have obscure there. And warmfront? the fuck.

  29. Daleth: ti. - [PG] said:

    remove turbine and obscure

    replace with snakewater and yukon


  30. Koeitje: AUTOBOTS said:

    So, why not Snakewater?

  31. Koeitje: AUTOBOTS said:

    Prem and div1 players also rate snakewater significantly higher than bazillion.

  32. byte said:

    new version of obscure will be used in this league afai can tell so it’s soldier heaven, no more sniper heaven and lesser sticky heaven =)

    No more stalemates =)))))))



  33. randa said:

    Get obscure out of the map pool along with bazillion as its dog and warmfront




  34. F2 :]: Vintage - -chess- said:

    It’s impossible to practice and perfect tactics for 8 maps. In prem you will see certain teams only practice the three new maps (bazillion, warmfront, turbine_pro) to beat “better” teams, making the end-scores quite random because they will be based on who practices which maps.

    Regardless, I’m quite excited to see how the new maps play out. Who knows, maybe there’s a new badlands amongst them.

  35. RaCio: GoT² said:

    While we took the results of survey into account, their stats do not provide flawless ratings from people that have actually played and tested both maps.

  36. Daleth: ti. - [PG] said:

    So a publicly untested map is getting put in the league no questions asked… but Snakewater isn’t?!

  37. Alx: SNSD-jjang ♥ said:

    So – why not freight, viaduct or snakewater? Listen to the players a little. Bazillion is on #19.

  38. byte said:




  39. honeymustard: Phase said:

    430 people isn’t representative of ETF2L

  40. Koeitje: AUTOBOTS said:

    Racio, you clearly did not check the raw data I posted. If you take Premier and Div1 players that have played Bazillion AND Snakewater, Snakewater is still rated significantly higher (2.82 vs 2.28)

  41. pala4 said:

    I’m disapointed
    where is yukon ?

  42. Jude!: fm! said:



  43. rarecandy said:

    so 1 hour of turbine if teams turtle?

  44. Koeitje: AUTOBOTS said:

    bo3 cl5 tl10 is the best format for turbine, provides really intense games.

  45. rarecandy said:

    also where is viaduct

  46. PingWIN said:

    Warmfront: Coldfron… primarily brings some gameplay changes and improvements… “I’m afraid not.”

  47. Will said:

    im sorry but turbine + bazillion = fail map pool and it look so positive not having freight

  48. Garphy said:

    Snakewater!! Snakewater!! We want Snakewater.

  49. Swifty: ξ(゜ヮ゜)ξ said:

    out of all customs, shoulda been snakewater…

  50. Daleth: ti. - [PG] said:

    the crowd wants snakewater

  51. Vince: BiG said:

    Who is the moron who put in bazillion over snakewater? Horrible decision.

    Also, the ruleset is bad.

  52. Vince: BiG said:

    *turbine ruleset that is

  53. Tehgnarr: is good! said:

    i dont get it…we have snakewater – a map that is actually fun to play and liked by a lot of people and bazillion – a map that literally noone really likes. And the map that noone likes gets picked? Oh well, guess Arnold just screamed loud enough.

  54.  Ghent : Team said:

    Bazillion was a horrendously poor choice over snakewater.

  55. Reload: BiG - BiG said:

    Imo ctf_turbine + bo3 caplimit 5 and no timelimit would’ve been a lot better, but anything’s better than 2×15 or 1×30 minutes

  56. Vaskie: BulletClub said:

    Seriously.. every season ETF2L gets worse !
    What the hell is wrong with you admins ? Bazillion over Snakewater ? Are you kidding me ?
    Also great rule set on Turbine Pro (Not..).
    Shitscure hasn’t been released yet it’s going to be played on the new season starting soon ?

    Oh wow.. ETF2L. Hopefully Wireplay takes notes and keeps growing on players hearts.

  57. Jude!: fm! said:

    just downloaded bazillion, seriously what the hell is this, middle is basically a cylinder with a stick on it

  58. Daleth: ti. - [PG] said:

    A sad day for EU TF2

  59. Swifty: ξ(゜ヮ゜)ξ said:

    and koth_viaduct !

  60. Jude!: fm! said:


  61. Waebi: ‹Con› said:

    rofl why so mad

  62. Poop: TSUN~ - [PG] said:


  63. CrashSite: RIPMOULD - One punch man said:

    Play the fucking maps, freight is gone and you are going to have to play these maps, deal with it. If you can’t, don’t play.

  64. Bury.: internecine said:

    Arnold clearly has the competitive environment as his audience for the maps he creates, it also takes quite a while and a tremendous amounts of will power to get design and development to the stage he is at with bazillion.
    I can only imagine reading comments just clearly insulting his map without any feedback or constructive criticism is heart breaking and de-motivating for any author (he sat in on the last pickup to look at how it’s played/ any comments, so I imagine he does care about feedback and testing his map, whether a league is the right place or not for an unfinished map is not the case). Just want to post as a reminder to any ill intentioned comments.

  65. Morphine: (Cat Enthusiast) - 一一═デ︻ said:

    +1 Bury

  66. etske said:

    New obscure that hasnt been tested in public, the stalemate bazillion and a remake of coldfront. Seriously, wtf happened?

  67. Koeitje: AUTOBOTS said:

    Yet people don’t like it Bury, while people do seem to like snakewater (which is also aimed at 6v6). The map clearly isn’t done yet, but still being added.

  68. Arnold: DAKKA said:

    Ok, now koeitje you being so vocal; actually might try real feedback based on an objective view of the map then? Would be appreciated. Even better would be you playing the map with proper teams but i know that won’t happen so i can settle with your warped view.

  69. RaCio: GoT² said:

    2 hours passed and there is already more “constructive” feedback (by 9 comments) then when we allowed sandman and added gorge. I’m proud of you community and hope you will put the same effort into playing and scheduling your matches.


  70. Koeitje: AUTOBOTS said:

    I haven’t played the map enough to actually give very good feedback, I just base myself on the response from the community. It’s just basic statistics.

  71. randa said:

    Actually yeah that is a point, why isnt viaduct in there? such an awesome map that no-one seems to have a bad word to say about it. Bazillion hasnt been tested enough snakewater seems to be the hot custom map favourite. warmfront is a just a retarded choice though srsly.

  72. WildEast: .:EnG!:. - <3 said:

    Someone had to chose the maps to be played, and its done by those who have the authority.
    What we should do now as players is positively criticize (what Bury said) so we can make them better because they won’t be changed, and start practicing them. Its not like “oh i lyk map why get map i no like!”, its more of “admins did put maps that keeps things fresh, and we gotta start practicing them and challenge teams with new game play tactics”.

  73. WildEast: .:EnG!:. - <3 said:

    Oh btw, try to put up a whitelist in the upcoming cfg.

  74. Arnold: DAKKA said:

    What do those statistics mean? It means over half of it played the map in it’s b5 stage on MNM
    Most of the finns played until b16 (rarely and only in pickups, with messed up respawn times)

    All of the latest tests were pickups, been added 2 weeks ago, with the verson that is being used in the league.

    Your poll was before it was added to the pickup channel, how is this in any way respresentative of the quality of the map?

    I would not allow a map that is not nearly done to be included into a league. The least you could do is check the map out in it’s current state. And the best you could do is play some proper matches on it. until then this entire discussion is meaningless.

  75. RaCio: GoT² said:


    already wrote it ;)

  76. Koeitje: AUTOBOTS said:

    We are forced to play those maps, and they won’t change during this season. Notice I don’t have anything against turbine_pro for example, which is also a new map, because people tend to like it. The problem lies in the fact that admins just carelessly add maps that haven’t been tested enough or aren’t liked enough. Plus, 8 maps is too many. You can’t practice those enough to actually master them.

  77. Koeitje: AUTOBOTS said:

    I based my opinion on those of prem & div1 players Arnold, maybe those aren’t good enough at this game to judge it.

  78. RaCio: GoT² said:

    You based it on a poll in which not all of those who took the survey played either map, let alone both ;)

    I’d say giving the map a proper shot before criticizing would be a good idea. I’m sure its not the worst map in the pool.

  79. Koeitje: AUTOBOTS said:

    I did some magic, its called “select cases”

    c1 = 1 OR c1 = 2 AND mp_SQ017 > 1 AND mp_SQ022 > 1

  80. Koeitje: AUTOBOTS said:

    N’s were quite low then, but if you want to I can check what the average rating for all maps combined was for snakewater players compared to bazillion players.

  81. Anhur: plēve said:

    LEEEET’SSS PLAAAYY PIPELINEE !!!! pipeline>all (sounds like ETF2L S.10)

  82. Daleth: ti. - [PG] said:

    What was the actual reasoning behind choosing bazillion over snakewater anyway? (genuine question)

  83. historic said:

    I love how people complain about the choices and the admins go “trolololololololololol hope you practise” instead of realizing they made a mistake.

  84. Ritalin: [d¿s] said:

    I’m happy to see Warmfront in there. Turbine can be annoying sometimes, but it has a lot of support from the ETF2L community, so I’m fine with that too.

    As much as I hate Snakewater, I’m really surprised Bazillion got picked ahead of it. Personally I would have preferred Freight or Viaduct instead of either, as they are solid, proven maps in both US and EU scenes.

    The poll was made, the people have spoken! The community is in general agreement for once(?)

  85. SAMULi: [MIPC] said:

    Horrible map pool. No trains?

  86. Daleth: ti. - [PG] said:

    there’s trains on badlands, they just dont move

  87. Spaceboy McGhee: [Ci] - Ci^H said:

    This is an outrage! Our team is only marginally proficient on maps with moving trains!

  88. lolage: TSPAG said:

    I actually quite like Bazillion, nice change from granlands. Not sure on turbine though, would have prefered to have seen Yukon.

  89. SAMULi: [MIPC] said:

    No railway engines in badla !

  90. peuranmakkara: [NB] said:


  91. hykleri said:

    bazillion > snakewater

    Seriously, if someone played the latest bazillion with a proper team, i just can’t see how they don’t like it. I dare to say it is better than badlands.

  92. kaidus: 7. - WiK? said:

    Glad to see some new maps finally, but I think three in one season is a bit much. I think I’ve collectively played these maps twice, not looking forward to the coming weeks…

  93. Jojipo: slc. - sisu said:

    No snake? I am disappoint

  94. M0re said:

    Bazillion, a map which everyone disliked on the tf2tv gasmcup#3 gets in, and the snakewater which was liked not. And on the other hand theres obscure, which will receive new version that none has played so far :D Are you fucking kidding me?

    Obscure wouldnt even be played unless byte had huge fanboy base. No disrespect to byte but the map is just bad, non-linear straight forward map, 2nd fastlane.

    And then we have turbine_pro which for some reason the mappers will fuck up in the end anyway, it would be okish I guess but you totally ignore ruleset which seems to be accepted thrue out european community.

  95. M0re said:

    oh dont get me started on warmfront. Even more boring than fastlane yet with a horrible game experience of 12fps. And yeah i’ve got quite stable 120fps for badlands, but this map doesnt care of that.

    I guess the map makers had their laugh already over the community. You can now remove the broken/unplayed/shitty/incomplete maps.

  96. M0re said:

    oh should prolly wakeup before writing

    “Obscure wouldnt even be played unless byte had huge fanboy base. No disrespect to byte but the map is just bad, linear straight forward map, 2nd fastlane.”

  97. tarmo-: <3 Fruit said:

    i’m done with playing at etf2l. thanks for the games, sorry for fruit people, you are awesome.

  98. cold: starlight said:

    what version of obscure?
    final, b1 or final1 ?

  99. Turbo: bobs said:

    Both Snakewater and Bazillion suck balls :/ i prefer freight over those maps any day

  100. crzfst said:

    Dead game is dead.

  101. n Traum: \V/ Gold - LAME said:

    Thank you for this map-pool.

  102. RaCio: GoT² said:

    Turbine rules should play out the same as the esh / esl rulesets

  103. Coconuts: [d¿s] said:

    Good job on the mappool, some variety is good! :)

  104. hykleri said:

    agree with m0re, except for the bazillion part.

  105. Califax: dyn. said:

    Really looking forward to S9… I like the challenge of new maps.

  106. jukebox: broder said:

    what is this badlands, never played it. it’s probably shit

  107. Ghostface: spire said:

    Week 1: Badlands / Granary
    Week 2: Badlands / Badlands
    Week 3: Granary / Badlands
    Week 4: Badlands / Granary
    Week 5: Granary / Badlands
    Week 6: Badlands / Badlands
    Week 7: Granary / Granary
    Week 8: Granary / Badlands
    Week 9: Granary / Granary

    best mappool ever.

  108. phyTek said:

    Deal with the map pool. all im gonna say :-))))

  109. doks said:

    I cant imagine the calls on bazillion.. im sorry but it has so many coridors, holes, gates… how are you supossed to actually understand something there?
    Warmfront should be cool…
    Obscure i have allways liked but putting a new version out just before the season seams crazy.

    and viaduct is just DM all the time in my view :/ not a lot of tactics to work with but hey im still a noob so what do i know.

    7.5/10 for the maplist. bazillion scares the shit out of me.

  110. M0re said:

    @hykleri well I would prefer bazillion over warmfront/obscure as atleast it’s not fastlane copy. Only thing which I dislike in the baz is that if the enemy comes to mid from sidedeck you have to pretty much do the same or you’re straight under the enemy and that usually ends pretty one sided :p.

  111. RaCio: GoT² said:

    Bazillion layout isn’t much harder then badlands layout, just spend 4 minutes and you’ll get it. Practising and timing roll-outs is the easiest way to learn a map I think.

    The sideroute is about 2-3 seconds slower so you’ll have a good chance if you go straight in I think.

  112. Taimou said:

    no offense admins but you did a FUCKING BAD job on picking the maps.
    I only agree in removing freight.

    G_G etf2l

    +1 m0re

  113. wwww: ISIS - Panopticon said:

    where is freight?! where is lovely freight?!

  114. Dauk said:


  115. [½]³: elem.v - SNSD-jjang ♥ said:

    Honestly the whine on etf2l nowadays is unbelievable. Play the maps and deal with it. Glad to see freight gone and turbine back, I look forward to learning and playing the new maps.

    Good job admins. Some people here at least are appreciative of your hard work.

  116. r7an: -9w- said:

    Don’t mind the additions but removing freight and adding 3 new maps :( think there is too
    many maps in the pool now.

  117. Cloud: .wldcrd! said:

    I like this map pool, people whine and bitch about it now but I’m confident the season will show these were good choices.

    Ruleset for Turbine is different to what has been used in PCWs, but isn’t bad because of it.

    I do feel 8 maps is too many, 6 would have been better IMO, which would’ve meant some of the more contentious maps could be dropped, however 8 maps will make the season more interesting than last, which I’m happy about.

    Hopefully Byte gets us a vastly improved version of Obscure on time, I dislike the current one, but at least everyone knows the map now, and the layout isn’t going to change to such an extent that nobody can learn it in time for the season.

    I would say “shame” about Snakewater, but by the looks of it, once teams have perfected their tactics, it will be a stalemate map like Freight was. I liked Freight as well for that matter!

    As for Warmfront, a better version of Coldfront, nice one. I just hope it doesn’t rape people’s FPS too much, and if it’s raping your FPS running in dx8 mode on one of Chris’ configs, it’s probably time to get a better PC anyway, or man up and deal with it.

    Nice job admins, appreciated!

  118. Dr-GimpfeN: 9g1c said:

    i think we need a survey bout that..

  119. ETF2L tillbaka med säsong 9 | Onlinegamer Sverige said:

    […] Mer information på ETF2L’s hemsida. Läs mer och lämna en kommentar Inga kommentarer Twitter Facebook Dela […]

  120. alien18: POLAKI - said:

    no freight :(

  121. Sheridyn: MONSTERFRAGGEN said:

    So I heard you guys like brown
    gg visual variation

  122. Sheridyn: MONSTERFRAGGEN said:

    If it don’t look like badlands, it can’t hope to be badlands
    or something

    (-1 does not look like badlands)

  123. chojje: keso said:


  124. WiLL said:

    Too many maps :(

  125. chojje: keso said:

    Really, I’m mad

  126. chojje: keso said:

    Really, fucking, mad

  127. iQue: keso said:

    Warmfront :(
    Bazillion :(
    Turbine_pro :)

    No snakewater though? It’s miles better than Bazillion or Warmfront could ever be, and I think most would agree with me

  128. nuts said:

    I’m wondering how the creator of perfect-balanced, dynamic and ideal in all ways gullywash (<3<3<3) could have made so fucking horrible piece of …you know… like bazillion, where you can easily get lost forewer in these coridors between 2nd and 1st point. The only way to escape from there is to print "kill" in the console.

    Thanks god you haven't add snakewater and r.i.p. freight, i'll miss you.

    +1 to "Horrible map pool. No trains?". Trains used to make the game very emotional on well and freight, when somebody was knocked down. I wish there were trains on every map.

  129. hykleri said:

    Even tho i didn’t like snakewater when i played it few times, i was surprised it isn’t in the mapool myself, since it has been really popular.

  130. hykleri said:

    “I’m wondering how the creator of perfect-balanced, dynamic and ideal in all ways gullywash (<3<3<3) could have made so fucking horrible piece of …you know… like bazillion, where you can easily get lost forewer in these coridors between 2nd and 1st point. The only way to escape from there is to print "kill" in the console."

    You people are seriously dumb.

  131. ShitFly: Paracoccidioido said:

    second point on bazillion is way to gay to play tbh

  132. WAR: C00L said:

    I am more disappointed that we are playing obscure…

    We have Snakewater, which chojje has spent an insane amount of time making, been tried and tested in NA, actually been accepted to the INVITE map pool in NA, and we play obscure?

    Obscure was a shit map to start with, last was fucking terrible, now, we are going to play a new version of obscure, have to get used to it in less than 21 days?

    I’m sure we are only playing it because Byte made it, if Byte had made snakewater and chojje had made obscure, Snakewater would have been in the map pool this way.

    Bazillion imo is fine tbh, the pu’s I’ve been playing with the new version, nobody has gotten lost in it, it’s a lot clearer and easier to follow now.

    But despite the shit ton of criticism from last season about Obscure, we are still playing Obscure? We haven’t even gotten round to testing any new version!

    Practically going to the toilet, dicks out, eyes closed and hoping for the best really.

    I actually didn’t see obscure in the map pool, and I was very excited, now I did I am :(

  133. hykleri said:

    Yeah actually obscure should be the biggest wtf? for everyone. Everyone agreed that it was… “obscure”. Since Byte is a known player and an admin here, obviously no one in the admin team will bench obscure, and after all Byte (actually someone else) is making a new version, so IT MUST BE GOOD. But as people already said, we haven’t even seen nor played the new version. People can bee upset because of warmfront, or bazillion or whatever, but still everyone had the chance to play these maps, but it isn’t the same with obscures new version.

  134. RaCio: GoT² said:

    I’m curious who of you have played both snakewater and bazillion (later versions) in more then one game, and if so, why you would rate the latter as unplayable.

  135. Wabby said:

    I heard ESL and Wireplay have different map pools go play there ETF2L isn’t the only league. How about: play the league, THEN qq about the map pool.

  136. chojje: keso said:

    hi telebear

  137. RaCio: GoT² said:


    The increase in maps might seem steep, but 2 of them are returning maps, and one of those is played in other leagues. Additionally, this season has the second least amount of maps in the map pool compared to all other main seasons. As the feedback for the s8 pool was not overely positive and the main request was to have more variety in maps, some customs and varied maps were added. Also the map schedule should be fairly easy with 2-3 weeks per new map to prepare, so I hope it should be well possible.

  138. M0re said:

    We play snakewater few times a day in finnish pickups (getting more and more playtimes every day). Bazillion use to run there too but not anymore, ppl just didnt like it that much. Same with coldfront (warmfront), not running as ppl dont like it. But maybe finns are crazy as we even play gravelpit on pickups everyday.

  139. M0re said:

    @ hykleri, yeah its a big WTF :)

    remove obs and warmfront, bring in snakewater!

  140. Alx: SNSD-jjang ♥ said:

    Turn Bazillion into Viaduct and Warmfront into freight or snakewater and you have a fine map pool.

  141. Demourge: EPA said:

    Please remove obscure…

  142. hykleri said:

    “I’m curious who of you have played both snakewater and bazillion (later versions) in more then one game, and if so, why you would rate the latter as unplayable.”

    I actually played both several times, and i personaly think that bazillion plays better. Not to take anything away from chojje, as he spent shitloads of time making that map (just like arnold) and it seems people like it, but for me the map feels… off. Like it has been made more for public. Even tho i knew all the routes on the map, it was too chatoic for me.

    Bazillion on the other hand is pretty straightforward after 1 or 2 games. I can see why people whine about the lobby area between 1st and 2nd, but trust me, it was waaaay more complicated before, when most of the people played this map in that tf2tv thingy. Bazillion is new and refreshing, but classic and simple in the same time. Everyone who thinks that middle is not balanced and stuff should play it more, and actually think about the issues. I play scout, so I could say middle is a nightmare for me, but actually i love it. If you figure it out, you can make clown out of the soldiers on middle.

  143. etske said:

    More, it’s not just the finns :p =

  144. WAR: C00L said:

    The Finns make this game, make them happy and let them choose the map pool.

  145. Daleth: ti. - [PG] said:

    just replace obscure with snakewater

  146. M0re said:

    despite your sarcastic comment I do believe finns do have quite good crasp on the custom maps as we test and play them almost everyday. Diffrent versions and maps are tested quite often in the finnish pickups. (even tarmos shitty maps :D).

  147. Furi0us said:


  148. DroSoPhiLe said:

    Good job on the map pool admins (excepted Obscure).
    Please, remove/replace Obscure with Snakewater and everything will be fine.

  149. Arnold: DAKKA said:

    Though i must admit the finns do play pickups on custom maps quite often, they do remain just pickups. Also you haven’t played bazillion since b16 (which you played exactly once) So I’m not sure if you are really aware of the changes that have been made. I would suggest (again) to take a calm and objective look at the map, play some matches on it and after that you can form a first impression.

    Maps only really start to show flaws after a season in prem div with matches that matter. As other map life-cycles have shown.

  150. Garphy said:

    Admins, stop ignoring the question about Snakewater.
    Remove Warmfront (original one much better btw) and add Snakewater.

  151. Taimou said:

    I just don’t understand the need of that many maps in map pool.
    If people would understand that even badlands has been played for 3 years, different gamestyles come to play and new tactics are developed every single day. No one has the perfect solid tactics for any map in the game.
    Removing freight is a way to go, but adding 2 more maps that are awful as hell (Bazillion+Warmfront.)………………….. JUST NO.
    Sad to not see Viaduct in the map pool.

    Ps. Snakewater sucks too

  152. Slick: Epsilon said:

    sigh what are you doing admins. Why are you forcing maps that noone wants to play? Come on…
    no offense to byte he knows i luv him, but force obscure without a vote? WHY….

    And the other maps?

    Guess our hopes lie in ESL. Come on anakin make em revive TF2

  153. PEPSI said:

    Where is freight.

    Warmfront ?! wtf

  154. hz said:

    We definitely need a voting process for the map pool. I absolutely hate bazillion.

    Also, I don’t get the point of adding maps which are in development stages. ETF2L is not a testing environment. We should play solid maps that are tested out throughly for competitive environment. Bazillion was tested only once during MNM cups and then most of us forgot about it. You need to start hinting people about the maps which might show up in the next season if you want to get some serious play testing done for any potential maps.

    Please don’t disappoint us!

  155. Tikcus said:

    No Trains :(

    There is a need to add 1 more map (or taking away 2)

    Don’t see why we play badlands and granary 3 times, and everything else twice, everything should either be played twice or 3 times.

    Also a little surprised gravelpit hasn’t received much/any negative comments

  156. evokje: WiK? said:

    remove bazillion and warmfrom add viaduct =win

  157. hykleri said:

    “We definitely need a voting process for the map pool. I absolutely hate bazillion.”

    Have to be on the admins side for this one. Making a vote wouldn’t really be a wise decision. People who only played bazillion/warmfront/turbine once would vote: HELL NO THAT MAP IS SHIT I HATE IT. Shitloads of people thought the same about badlands when it came out… just saying.

    Sometimes people/admins have to force thing in hope for a better future. Not saying that the admins made great decisions lately, i am just saying that mocking them because of no voting about the maps is not a good thing imo.


    Something like this in tf2. now.

  158. hz said:

    Well, you are right hykleri, voting process will be difficult to keep non-biased. I would like to take that back!

    Anyways, seriously, ‘seasons’ are meant to play solid, well-tested maps for the best experience. New maps need to be tested throughly. I would be happy if any custom maps were introduced in s10 with some small cups (not one) before the season. Only one cup cannot be a decider.


  159. FADe: dd said:

    Failing to any any sense in the decision making in selecting some maps. Looks like the extensive surveys conducted by various members of the community were shunted for an admin circle jerk.
    Fuckall that can be done about it now I guess

    Looking forward to s9.

  160. Eledorian: DAKKA said:

    No viaduct :(

  161. RaCio: GoT² said:

    We contacted all developers of the maps and they are all out of development stages. Bazillion and other maps were played and tested multiple times, so its weird to shift the blame for not trying them to other peoples. There’s nothing to lose from trying a new custom map once.

    And as I’ve said
    This season has the second least amount of maps in the map pool compared to all other main seasons. There was pretty much no positive feedback on the s8 map pool (size) and the main request was to have more variety in maps.

  162. M0re said:

    @arnold: I think I played b16 few more times than 1 :). But yeah they’re pickups and tbh I dont mind bazillion being in the mappool as atleast its not linear, like I said earlier. If the problems are gone which I mentioned in vanillatf2 after tf2tv cup it can be pretty intresting. Mostly non-linear maps are the most intresting ones and plays good, even with few flaws in it. And with active mapper those issues can be solved.

  163. M0re said:

    @racio: I dont think more variety = more linear maps. Goldrush or the dustbowl on the other hand would bring variety in…

  164. Blade said:

    few years ago after releasing, badlands was my favourite map.

  165. Blade said:


  166. Koeitje: AUTOBOTS said:

    Badlands was also instantly my favorite. A good map just stands out right away.

  167. Scatterbrain: SpA|com said:

    i mean sure
    snakewater > bazillion

    the again
    bazillion >>>>>>>> freight

    and if warmfront is more or less the same as coldfront, then i think we should be happy enough

  168. chojje: keso said:

    I think what they do in ESEA is pretty fine: all premium members get one vote to exclude a map from the map pool, and after the vote there’s another vote to get a new map in. That way the game keeps evolving, the community are the ones deciding, and it still doesnt change too rapidly. ETF2L not having premium membership, perhaps the team leaders of the teams participating in the last season should get one vote per team.

    Just to avoid the problem with nobody even knowing how the maps are selected, and mostly to avoid playing maps that you have no means of getting to know remotely.

  169. Tommeh: ‹Con› said:

    people + internet = whiny cuntz :DDD

  170. jiite: 4-25 said:

    i want well and 2fort, yeah!

  171. stko!: -9m- - -9m- said:


  172. Andee: GoT<3 - HoT<3 said:

    I like the new mappool, sounds like a nice challenge. And gratz to Arnold for now having gullywash and brazzilion in the ETF2L mappool! Hope it’s going to be a great season, just as surprising and exciting like last season.

    Thanks to the ETF2L admins, and sidekicks, for the biggest TF2 community and tourney in the world.

    Cuz alot of people forget what it takes to organise something like this, reading the comments.

  173. torden: broder - syster said:

    Finally, I see some balls in the admin team, in a move to break us out of a downward spiral of chewed out habits.

    The ones that have fun with it and work hard, are likely to will win – The ones that cry and don’t play the game much any more, are likely to lose. There really is nothing wrong with that.

  174. Arnold: DAKKA said:

    M0re, according to the demo’s uploaded after pickups, bazillion_b16 was only played once, and that was the last time. a month or so ago. (can’t check specifics now)

  175. lay: Yes! - Yeh! said:

    Where’s snakewater? :/

  176. Evil: aqeze said:

    Bazillion and Warmfront – [email protected]

  177. Evil: aqeze said:

    koth_viaduct not in list again :/

  178. _Ben: ;? said:

    what an OBSCURE map pool hurr hurr

  179. KTJ: k0 said:

    bazillion?, no thx

  180. Garphy said:

    What about unlocks?

  181. blind: popkõrns said:

    why can’t tf2 be like any other competetive game and have a set list of maps? I mean, its been what, 3 years and theres still like 2 or 3 stable maps, rest just circle the fuck around? It’s not like theres been maps released that are equally GOOD and FUN like granlands, tf2 just has to give the mapmakers a chance for glory or whatever that THEYR map is being played in leagues and shit or something. This doesn’t add variety or skill to the game, it just brings the skill ceiling down because team X will find the first strongest way to play a new map and everyone will do it, untill team Y will find a better way.

  182. Buffalo Bill: TDR » - T⑨ said:

    “This game came out 2007. 4 years later we have 2 maps regulary played and new tactics are still comming up. We dont need to become more dynamic with some sandwich or a drink that makes u invulnerable. If somthing needs to be forced to this community is some quality maps that im sure is out there.”

    – Quote from Sneis,

    Pay particular attention to the last sentence.

  183. GeaR: Epsilon said:

    Great mappool, but I’m sceptical about obscure. Also the map pool size could be too big.
    You see it, remove obscure.

    GJ ETF2L admins.

  184. Old_Grandma: OGizzle said:

    Who stole all the water on gullywash pro?

    ALSO people are focusing on the wrong things “where is snakewater, what happened to freight” You need to ask yourself WTF is CP_GRACK at!!!

  185. This is season 9 « vanillatf2 said:

    […] can find the full announcement, with map information and download links on ETF2L. Note: The upcoming prizes and ruleset (including […]

  186. cappz: \\/ier ° - -[MG-C]- said:

    snakewater :[

  187. Vince: BiG said:

    “why can’t tf2 be like any other competetive game and have a set list of maps?”

    Brood War constantly has new maps, and it’s great for the game. TF2 maps need much longer development, but they also last longer, so that works out.

  188. JOHNNYJACKAL: .:ne:. - said:

    I am not familiar with either bazillion or warmfront, but the addition of turbine is nice!
    Would have like to see a smaller map pool thou.

    Looking forward to season 9 :)

  189. cappz: \\/ier ° - -[MG-C]- said:

    And obscure should be in season 9 anyways

  190. archy said:

    i honestly dont five a **** for any comments posted already

    but where the fuck is snakewater?

    first time that i am REALLY disappointed by the admin team.

    /facepalm hard

  191. WiLL said:


    “The unlock ruleset coupled with the recent announcement of the map pool for season 9 triggered a decision for some of the top teams not to participate in ETF2L for now unless both of the map pool and unlock rules are changed. List of teams deciding to not join the upcoming season include at least !!Epsilon eSports!!, !!Power Gaming!! and !!Team Dignitas!!. Three of the previous seasons top four teams leaving could be a big blow towards the credibility of ETF2L as the premier TF2 league in Europe.”
    PwR Moose


  192. Leshey: D.A - V.A.C. said:

  193. Leshey: D.A - V.A.C. said:

    i’m slow :<

  194. archy said:

    a well done poll showed what people were thinking…. but what ever.

  195. Waebi: ‹Con› said:

    told you the polls wouldnt mean shit

  196. Mordi: ≧◡≦ said:

    wow, u remove freight, and keep obscure, both shit maps. Bazillion is great, but where the fuck is snakewater and yukon? gravel is also shit, but it should be in the pool tbh, need a map like that. same with turbine, it’s actually pretty good.

    pretty DAMN dissapointed tho…

  197. helberg: Vintage - DANMARK said:

    no viaduct :(

    G_G obscure….

  198. Ripple said:

    turbine? go and die pls :<

  199. biester said:

    bazillion -.-
    tubrine -.-‘
    gullywash without water -.-

    rest is cool^^

  200. Dummy: Epipslon said:

    top teams quitting… no diggy in etf2l? meh
    turbine is fine, bazillion instead of snakewater… jesus

  201. Poppis: zamn! said:

    Turbine_pro is awesome. Best games we had in the past month has been on Turbine. Very even matches that has been keeping everyone on the edge of their seats really. So yay for turbine_pro. Though the rules seem bit confusing. Or maybe it’s just me…

    Obscure is simply a boring stalemate, but it’s way better than Coldfront. Get rid of Coldfront/Warmfront/Shitfront and/or Obscure and put Freight back. Why get rid of a map that is well know and played more than Obscure or any other shitty custom map? Hmm?
    I like snakewater more than bazillion but I don’t really care which map is played. I’d rather not see Coldfront and Obscure ever again.

    Hopefully the unlock rules are better than this map pool…

  202. Reload: BiG - BiG said:

    Badlands, Granary, Gravelpit, Gullywash, Turbine (with this ruleset or 3x10min rounds), Viaduct (bo5).

    Only 6 maps, play every map 3 times. Wouldn’t this work a lot better than 8 maps twice? Especially when maps like Bazillion are still in beta stage and the new version of Obscure hasn’t even been released yet.

  203. biester said:

    i still dont like turbine for me it is ->still<- really boring

  204. Moody: <3 said:

    Bazillion is a shit map and turbine is super boring. Well done..

  205. Daggial: fap said:

    i don’t think bazillion is a bad map (played b19 2/3 times in pickups and liked it), but you can’t ignore all the people who want snakewater in the pool!

    you have 3 weeks to update it with the fixes you think are needed (quoted from racio: only 1 rollout path, too much scout friendly, quoted from myself: too much sniper friendly), just do it!!?!??!

  206. Daggial: fap said:

    soz, that was buffalobill not racio, sayng that

  207. Davib said:

    Viaduct and Snakewater in, warmfont and obscure out.

    I don’t want to join the crowd baying for bytes blood as obscure has potential and everyone should give it a chance but its too soon to be including it without a proper release.

    Bazillion I have no problem with, looks fun. Snakewater I know for a fact is really good and fun.

  208. Tikcus said:

    Since Gravelpit is week 2, for the sake of practice, a heads up on Engy limit 1 or 2?

  209. chojje: keso said:

    I’m currently working with the issues that have been pointed out in the discussions today, sadly the ETF2L admins will probably be impossible to convince even though I make huge improvements (that’s the picture I got from bill anyways). Really glad about the support though – hopefully youll find some place to play Snakewater outside of ETF2L!

  210. aeq said:

    Personal opinions, I have never liked Turbine but some loves it. It’s hard to feed all the mouths, but it is really sad if the top teams decides to skip ETF2L because of this.

    But i can not understand where the polls have been? Have people gotten the chance to vote for they favourite maps?

    All registred players should have a chance to vote, i might have missed it, if i have i’m sorry.

    Even if players never have played the map they should be allowed to vote. If you then say you have to have played the map a couple of times before you can vote I think it’s wrong.

    If i like the way the mappool is i don’t want more maps, but i should be able to vote for it!

  211. GeaR: Epsilon said:

    top teams aren’t quitting because of the map pool. where did you read this?

  212. Kop: [CiC] - CiC said:

    top teams are leaving due to a mix of the map pool and the fact they will only play vanilla. That attitude sucks but we will have to deal with it and move on with the teams that are interested

  213. Admirable: (Toucan Ambassador) said:

    Why was freight dropped?
    It was no worse than Obscure?

    Fucking QQ babies can’t play a map and get it dropped :/

  214. Kop: [CiC] - CiC said:

    indeed Admirable but in order to freshen the league up with new maps others had to go, that was joint most hated with obscure but obscure has an update coming so people should like it more.

    It would be nice if people stopped moaning about the maps and the vanilla rubbish and started getting ready for S9 and looking forwards to whats ahead, no one is forced to sign up as the “big teams” have proved.

    We as a team decided this is what the league needs so we need to push forward and see, and if mistakes are made we will learn from them.

  215. Tehgnarr: is good! said:

    Why not vanilla + medlocks for prem and div1 and “normal” unlock rules for everything below? Why not search for a suitable compromise instead of acting like this:

    “top teams are leaving due to a mix of the map pool and the fact they will only play vanilla. That attitude sucks but we will have to deal with it and move on with the teams that are interested”

    etf2l will be uninteresting without top teams.

  216. Kop: [CiC] - CiC said:

    There will always be top teams, just different ones to the current ones. Changing rules for 1 div and not another is a stupid idea and i;ve always thought that.

    It splits the community which is something we wont be doing, It also doesnt help clans who get promoted into that div as they are used to certain weapons and then are forced not to use them.

    The easiest solution is if all the prem/div 1 teams only want to play vanilla then they can, we are not forcing them to use other weapons.

  217. Wolf :D: PStM - DStS said:

    oh god no, I loved freight.

    Turbine? Seriously?

  218. Moose: [MIPC] - #10 said:

    Kop, with that logic vital-gaming, frost grandpapa and UBITEAM are top teams. After all, they finished top5 in Wireplay’s highest division some time ago when there were only 2 notable teams competing against them. Top teams will remain top teams, they’ll just play elsewhere while the league will simply lose its position as the premier league in Europe.

  219. Kop: [CiC] - CiC said:

    We cant stop u playing elsewhere and we dont intend on trying. We are doing what we feel is right for the league as a whole, not just a couple of the top teams. ETF2L will remain fun, fresh and as good as ever.

  220. howdeh: Perilous - WUL said:

    I think you’re making a huge mistake if you’re not completely understanding the possible consequences of not having teams like Dignitas, Power Gaming and Epsilon in your league.

  221. Ottoo said:

    Its nice u want to see your league to die, gg.

  222. Kop: [CiC] - CiC said:

    ottoo ive seen tfc die due to nothing changing, change sucks at 1st but then it gets used too. So saying u think i want this league to die is just wrong.

  223. pala4 said:

    cs dies because nothing changes right?

  224. Kop: [CiC] - CiC said:

    cs has alot more to offer right from the start than tfc/tf2 does, different tactics for numerous weapons, where tf2/tfc only really had 1 main weapon for each class.

  225. koshius said:

    season 9 gonna suck without the top teams

  226. etske said:

    If you don’t want to preserve your status as THE league in europe, be my guests…

  227. Ripple said:

    I mean, it’s normal that people moan if they don’t like a new map. But why did you ignore the community totally? Noone wanted bazillion despite really few people. Snakewater was accepted by a majority of the players, and it’s really an awesome map and FUN TO PLAY (which a map should be). Anyway, do as you wish – but don’t cry if this league gets smaller and smaller.

  228. RaCio: GoT² said:

    Snakewater did not get accepted by the majority of etf2l players, most haven’t even seen it ;)

  229. Matt: TEZC - TEZC said:

    What an amazing job ETF2L I can’t tell you what a good job you have done.


  230. etske said:

    You just consciously choose to ignore the poll?

  231. Tehgnarr: is good! said:

    It splits the community which is something we wont be doing, It also doesnt help clans who get promoted into that div as they are used to certain weapons and then are forced not to use them.

    well, top teams boycotting the league is pretty much splitting the community, I recon. Clans who get promoted to top divs should be good enough to hold their ground without unlocks. It would also just emphasize the “exclusivity” of the prem and first div. I still think, that would be the best solution and something to consider.

  232. Fawni: (ETF2L Donator) - tR67 said:


  233. Tikcus said:

    played bazillion for first time tonight, I enjoyed it a thousand times more than the first time I played snakewater. So on first impressions good decision.

  234. xzr: puppeli said:

    Kop: (League Admin) – [CiC] – (fReZe) said:
    March 1st, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    cs has alot more to offer right from the start than tfc/tf2 does, different tactics for numerous weapons, where tf2/tfc only really had 1 main weapon for each class.

    thanks for the d6 insight

  235. Daggial: fap said:

    the problem is not being baz > snake or snake > baz,
    it’s just they are both good maps :)
    warmfront is a weird decision IMO

  236. LegioN: uns. - uns said:

    no freight :(

  237. nuts said:

    i went through unlock list and still can’t understand why people are whining so much about it: FaN (banned), Sandman (banned), Crit-a-Cola (never seen somebody used it on offi), all solly’s unlocks – banned, pyro unlocks are all useless except axtinguisher, demo unlocks – all are useless, Natascha – banned, chocolate – useless, engi’s – useless, sniper – nothing is used except jarate, spy – C’n’D is the only thing which makes sense

    so we actually have only bonk, equalizer, pain train, axtinguisher, sandwich, kgb and medic unlocks left. Deleting axtinguisher and KGB, as the possibility that you take pyro/heavy and kill somebody by it is <0,01%, we have ONLY 7 UNLOCKS, which are really can be useful through a game. Am i the only man who think there's nothing that ruins balance and nothing to bitch about?

  238. bulletproofsmurf: Vuze. said:

    ETF2L admins arbitrarily making decisions without consulting the community first?! No! Who would have thought it?!

  239. RaCio: GoT² said:

    There’s tons of ways we look at feedback (MNM cups for one), but that doesn’t mean your opinion will always count.

  240. Fawni: (ETF2L Donator) - tR67 said:

    I lold

  241. bulletproofsmurf: Vuze. said:

    Yeah exactly. You guys don’t have to listen to the community’s opinion at all. Just look at Colonel Gaddafi- that guy just f*cks over his community regardless of what they tell him. Rock on!

  242. RaCio: GoT² said:

    Your opinion does not equal that of the community. But if you want it to be valued higher, please share your experiences you had in the multiple pcw’s you played on both maps.

  243. Martn said:

    I like warmfront, bazillion and turbine_pro, i also do like new unlocks. <- Thank god RaCio listened to me!

  244. CanFo: (Legend) - [HA] - #T4F said:

    nuts: The unlock list is the one from the last season. There will be changes.

  245. Martn said:

    I like turtles

  246. iQue: keso said:

    I don’t think people have much of a problem with adding new maps, it has much more to do with what maps. Snakewater has been played (and loved) by many more players than either warmfront or bazillion. It is going to be played in ESEA and has gotten top grades from the vast majority of the NA scene, low level as well as high level players. It might be true that many players haven’t tried it, but that’s NOT a good argument against it, as many (and I mean MANY) more players haven’t tried warmfront (which is an insult to the original mapmaker) and bazillion, which is pretty much a “meh” map in most peoples eyes.

    I understand the drive for change in ETF2L, but it should not be done this way. Top teams are leaving? SURELY WE’RE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG

  247. iQue: keso said:

    And yes, I mad. A little bit.

  248. Martn said:

    iQue: your argument is invalid, top teams arent leaving over the map pool…

  249. Fawni: (ETF2L Donator) - tR67 said:

    Yeah, the map pool aint THE reason, but it is one of them.

  250. iQue: keso said:

    I didn’t say the map pool was the reason top teams are leaving. It might have come off that way though.

  251. Krakyn: rEJ said:

    Promising so far. Looking forward to see what you do with the unlock rules, especially after byte managed to post a not unreasonable way forward for them.

    Guess we’ll have to drag rej players back from various troll teams now so we can have something resembling a line up.

  252. byte said:

    Is quite sad that soo much hostile content is aimed at the map obscure, due to the slow’er’ paced map that it is, along with anti-semantics way of capping points. If soo much hatred was shown to the map how come it still reached an unofficial ranking of 6th from our community? Is it because the only ones who speak are the ones with negatives about the map?

    Anyway, officially as a statement by myself and not by ETF2L, my influence was in no part for it being selected what so ever, the admins selected it on the basis that the new version of the map would be play tested by the end of Feb i.e. the 28th. This however is not the case as it is not ready for play testing yet. All be it has been seen by a few.

    Going by this logic it would seem logical to remove it out of the map pool until the next season, with the new version being played. As alot of people are in the middle of asking which version is being used so I’ve requested.

    It is not being removed for the reason of people finding it a “boring” map the rest had the voice and vote for the map and half the community enjoy it and clearly half of you don’t and the stats don’t lie as much, however it’s not an accurate display of it.

    I’m sure the admin’s here at ETF2L will reconsider and announce or edit their post in due time. Mean while those who haven’t really been civil with their approach of such hatred for the map due to snakewater not getting in, I suggest you re-evaluate your thoughts.

    Snakewater is a worthy contender but I’m going to guess it will not be included due to the imperative faults on capture point 2. So I’m going to presume when obscure is taken out due to request, the map pool will be 1 map less.



  253. Tikcus said:

    Just play obscure_final had more good games than bad games on it

  254. Reload: BiG - BiG said:

    Byte: Don’t you think a good portion of the ‘hostile content’ aimed at obscure is because the map is still under construction? I can imagine that a lot of teams think they might not have enough time to prepare on the map or that the changes won’t be properly and thoroughly tested before it has to be played :)

  255. Add CP_Gullywash_imp3 to server map lists? said:

    […] out tonight… For those interested in the new version check it out here (scroll down a bit)… Announcing Season 9! – Maps and Schedule | ETF2L …along with the newest map from the gullywash creator, cp_bazillion_rc1, which again I haven't […]

  256. Dauk said:

    I thought you learning with gorge when you forced us to play it. It was “unpleasant” new wind

  257. hykleri said:

    The problem with obscure is that 99% of the community haven’t seen it byte. Season 9 is just around the corner, and there is a map in the mappool which isn’t even complete.

  258. Slick: Epsilon said:

    from what i heard… FB, Refuse, Redcode, to add with Epsilon, pwr, Dignitas decided to drop . I think the point is if 90% of the prem teams dont like this ruling, their must be a prob? As our voice has no real matter, this is the only way we can be heard! Hopefully admins like look beyond their own agendas and egos, and seek out a better solution with everyone ;)

  259. Slick: Epsilon said:

    oh and YYT…come on..sort this out pls.

  260. pykow said:

    WTH ? No obscure and freight ?
    Everyone hates Coldfront, and now u gonna add warmfront ? Just the same map.

    I understand why people leave this season.
    Shitty maps

  261. Jude!: fm! said:

    an eu tf2 league without fb dig and epsilon is basically a joke, sure, a more generous to public players ruleset might help boost the player base in the short term, but i can’t see there being a prem league in the future, or any respect forthe league as a whole if the only good teams leave, div1 players won’t be far behind them, thats for sure.

    Then suddenly, no good teams left.

    but hey, maybe that was the original goal, turning etf2l into a highlander scene :D

  262. Martn said:

    Just because 20 out of the 350 teams decide not to play, doesnt mean etf2l is dead…
    Those 20 teams are easy replacable and after a season everybody will act like nothing happened.
    And i will say good luck to those teams deciding not to play etf2l. I hope they enjoy being forgotten and forever play minority leagues and pcws…

  263. d2m: vertex » - derptex9 said:

    Easily replaceable? lol.

    You’re a mug if you think losing the best teams in Europe is anything other than a PR disaster for ETF2L. I’m looking forward to the new ESL season.

  264. Martn said:

    d2m: BB, Monster Munch, TCM, Refuse, Infused, Eternity, K1ck and Crack Clan will just easily take over, no doubt in that.

  265. Dauk said:

    I think the point is not that they will not play tf, but that they will join other legues and etf2l won’t be the “main” one anymore.

  266. Martn said:

    Wich league? Not wireplay or ESH, ESL maybe, but i dont see that taking over with the current circumstances.

  267. Netsky: [HA] said:

    while the admins are still discussing, I’m going to post _my own_ (or that of the majority of my team) opinion as well:

    Can’t really complain about the unlocks tbh: we mostly use vanilla + med + eq (+bonk & jarate, don’t think there are any others) IF it were to come down to Vanilla + med only I think only our soldier(s) would complain, since the equalizer adds a certain mobility to that class, other than that, I think most wouldn’t even care tbh.

    Now those maps:
    I think my team’s main problem is still gravelpit, however I wouldn’t vote against it since it offers an other intense game experience than 5cp.

    Badlands and Granary, well no need to discuss this right?

    Obscure, for my part I love the Mid, 2nd is ok, sometimes great fun, but last … I don’t feel comfortable over there. Surprisingly my old fashioned likes this map overall.
    However, I must agree it is a sad day that we won’t be able to see the new version at least 1 month before S9. Can’t really say if we should be playing it. Well if it were better it would be dumb to drop it, so I hope _final1 will have major improvments, if not it would be better to stay on _final or simply drop it for this season.

    Gullywash: No complains over here, and the … rc1 was it? looks well done except that one sniper spot.

    Warmfront: A map I don’t like at all, I don’t even know why. Maybe a need a few more games on that one.

    Bazillion: A fairly interesting map, which seems super complex when first playing it, but I think it’s even easier to learn than badlands, well maybe not that building part between cp1 and 2.
    I played this map twice, first time was obviously a big fail since nobody knew the map, so I hated it. Second time was no better. Better than snakewater? Can’t tell, haven’t played them enough to make such a decision.

    All in all the map pool is ok-ish for my team, well got to learn those new maps, and continue hating “coldfront” and gravelpit.

    EDIT: forgot about turbine: never liked that map, but the new versions seem to work out great.

  268. d2m: vertex » - derptex9 said:

    Martn – They’re not the best teams in Europe. Great teams, but you missed my point entirely.

  269. Tehgnarr: is good! said:

    I dont even think, it’s about the maps anymore. While I certainly would like snakewater in the pool, I dont have a problem with bazillion – it is a good and new map and adds something fresh to the mappool. Warmfront – meh, whatever, last CP is still a mess, but that might just be me.

    The issue is prem teams leaving and I would like to see the admins show some effort to hold them and not just ignoring the issue.

  270. xzr: puppeli said:

    Kop, you call driving a bunch of teams away from the league “not splitting up the scene”

    You are one piece of work lad

  271. RaCio: GoT² said:

    Seeing as the unlock rules are not published yet, I dont see why you would be driven to leave. Especially as even cups from esh are said to be boycotted as well due to having bonk, sandvich and equalizer allowed.

  272. Tikcus said:

    ” Hopefully admins like look beyond their own agendas and egos, and seek out a better solution with everyone”

    It’s a shame the few top teams (although probably a hand full of players) can’t look beyond their own agendas and egos

    I notice cevo season 7, announced it’s weapon bans (I’m surprised by one or 2) they banned a total of 13 weapons and not one comment or complaint on the announcement page, guess top teams overseas still like a few unlocks, or realise most have a minimal impact on the game and weren’t worth worrying about

  273. crzfst said:

    So you say to freshen up league you put new maps in and they are gonna be accepted and then again to freshen up league we get rid of the maps we just started to like and play another bunch of custom maps? Sounds like a plan to me.

  274. RaCio: GoT² said:

    What map are you talking about if you say “maps we just started to like”?

  275. Finn: [:B] said:

    Freight. Its fun as roamer, although scouts are useless on the 2nd/4th cap.

  276. crzfst said:

    I am talking about these new maps which will be liked by someone.

  277. CanFo: (Legend) - [HA] - #T4F said:

    And who said that they will be taken out as soon as they are liked and accepted?

  278. crzfst said:

    Quoting Kop – “in order to freshen the league up with new maps others had to go” So when admins get bored again they freshen up the league with new, flashy and exciting maps.

  279. ashkan said:


  280. Chaos: SCG said:

    I miss d2m
    he has comfy legs. I bet RaCio doesn’t

    also, where is dave?

    OT = bazilion = bigger than yukon!
    Turbine = Good map, awful ruleset.
    Warmfront = …

    All this isn’t as bad as wireplays latest config update that just fixed a friggin typo in the consoles announcement say command at the end :D

  281. hoppi: TIDS said:

    no freight? WOOWOOOWOOOP

  282. Fantomen: nandos said:

    I dont’t give a shit wich maps you put in for the seasons, aslong it’s not freight.
    Good Job admins <3

  283. RaCio: GoT² said:

    Week 7 is now “we love Arnold” week

  284. bulletproofsmurf: Vuze. said:

    It seems freight got taken out because of a particularly vocal minority. So I guess the admins can’t be blamed for that one.

    But putting in a largely untested and hugely unpopular map? I don’t think even d2m would have pulled a blunder like that

  285. RaCio: GoT² said:

    The maps are tested and the feedback from people that have played the latest versions of them was positive.

    And as I asked, I’d love you to share when you played the maps in 6v6 and what your concerns or experiences were. :)

  286. ColDas: )) said:

    change bazillion to snakewater

  287. Permzilla: (Legend) - LEGO - WiK? said:

    I don’t understand my people don’t like Obscure as a map, it’s really nice for scouting on anyway.

  288. at0micz* said:


  289. Netsky: [HA] said:

    if the new version of obscure turns out to be well made, I think it will be back in S10.

  290. Magic_Neko said:

    Our team played a couple of games on warmfront and bazillion. We liked them both mostly, especially bazillion, it is very fresh and implements new tactics into usual 6v6, which is certainly good. And warmfront us just pretty good map, playin on it is kinda relaxing and light =)

  291. GeaR: Epsilon said:


  292. Tikcus said:

    Badlands 4 times other maps two, seems a crazy decision, and the justification I got was crazy.

    “it’s the most popular map by far”

    using that logic, why play any other map?

  293. Crasp: (Legend) - BACΩN | - бекон said:

    @ Tikcus, it’s now badlands x4, granary and gullywash x3. We understood that people were unhappy with having obscure and with having 8 maps in the pool, so we made the decision to replace the obscure’s with one more badlands and gullwash. We think it’s the best compromise.

    The fact that it’s “the most popular map by far” was only factored in when we were considering which maps out of the 7 left in the pool to replace obscure.

  294. Tikcus said:

    3X another map > badlands 4X IMO

  295. Garphy said:

    When will be published news about the unlock rules?

  296. Crasp: (Legend) - BACΩN | - бекон said:

    @ Garphy, if not in the next few minutes/hours, then tomorrow (Thursday).

  297. M0re said:

    ok get your pitchforks ready, time to get warmfront out of map pool!:D tbh dont know anyone who likes this map. _anyone_. Even the MIPC trolls who usually enoy playing shitty maps dont like it.

  298. CrashSite: RIPMOULD - One punch man said:

    Warm/Coldfront has been played in competitive NA at the highest level, didn’t like the map before, but I am sure once you give it a chance it will grow on you like a lot of maps do. But if you don’t practice it, then lose in S9 on it, of course you are going to hate it. SO give it a chance.

  299. Vaskie: BulletClub said:

    It’s already a bit better, now switch Bazillion for Snakewater. Snakewater is such a great map and Bazillion, lmfao, horrible, horrible map.

  300. Martn said:

    300th post!

    I beg to differ, warmfront is awesome. Bazillion is meh, but i can’t say i like snakewater more.

  301. GeneSIS^: [MIPC] said:

    @ more shit maps? mostly we vote for snakewater or axle and both are great maps!

  302. WiLL said:

    Bazillion is cool, very big, but cool :) but the problem is : No one searching a pcw on that map. Div4 Teams feel free to add me on steam , i wanna play this map . Cu on

  303. Martn said:

    @ will: We had no problem finding opponents on the new maps.

  304. JarvA: Pinnacle said:

    I found it a nice map pool. Don’t have any problems with Bazzilion. That will give team the opportunity to check out other maps instead of just badlands and granary.

  305. chojje: keso said:

    Obscure being gone, what are the odds of getting snakewater in instead? The issues you’ve pointed out should be resolved in the next few days, and it sure looks like the community wants it.

  306. Dauk said:

    snakewater won’t be included because it will be too much new maps

  307. lolage: TSPAG said:

    And obscure wasn’t already going to be a new map? From my understanding the only reason Obscure won’t be in because it won’t be ready in time..?

  308. Dauk said:

    and because it sucks

  309. Califax: dyn. said:

    On a side note… Dear admins, what version of Turbine will be used?

    I ask because the link in the announcement links to the thread for version pro_b1, but pro_b2 is allready out…

  310. markitoshh: k0 said:

    Week 1: Badlands / Warmfront
    Week 2: Gravelpit / Warmfront
    Week 3: Gravelpit / Granary
    Week 4: Turbine_pro / Granary
    Week 5: Turbine_pro / Gullywash
    Week 6: Badlands / Gullywash
    Week 7: Granary / Gullywash
    Week 8: Turbine_pro / Badlands
    Week 9: Granary / Badlands


    – 4 Badlands
    – 4 Granary
    – 3 Gullywash
    – 3 Turbine_pro
    – 2 Gravelpit
    – 2 Warmfront

    If what admins want is to update the map pool with some new maps we can add Warmfront, Turbine_pro and Gullywash_pro. I know that Turbine_pro and Gullywash_pro are just updates from previous versions but I think that these are enough map pool changes for one season.

  311. Ripple said:

    Week 1: Badlands / Warmfront
    Week 2: Gravelpit / Warmfront
    Week 3: Gravelpit / Granary
    Week 4: Turbine_pro / Granary
    Week 5: Turbine_pro / Gullywash
    Week 6: Badlands / Gullywash
    Week 7: Granary / Gullywash
    Week 8: Turbine_pro / Badlands
    Week 9: Granary / Badlands


    – 4 Badlands
    – 4 Granary
    – 3 Gullywash
    – 3 Turbine_pro
    – 2 Gravelpit
    – 2 Warmfront

    THIS!!! And obscure > turbine :D

  312. Dorkan: FB said:

    I also vote for previous mappool, or something very similar to it. With decent unlocks rule everything would be fine.

  313. PEPSI said:

    Week 1: Badlands / Freight_final1
    Week 2: Gravelpit / Freight_final1
    Week 3: Gravelpit / Granary
    Week 4: Turbine_pro / Granary
    Week 5: Turbine_pro / Gullywash
    Week 6: Badlands / Gullywash
    Week 7: Snakewater / Gullywash
    Week 8: Turbine_pro / Badlands
    Week 9: Granary / Badlands

  314. Hildreth: MUUQ - bad said:

    Only map I am really surprised to see included is Bazillion. I wasn’t too big a fan on Snakewater but if it comes down between Snakewater and Bazillion it is Snakewater all the way.

    Really hope the admins re-evaluate their decision on that map.

    Okay people don’t like Obscure so much, personally I’d rather have Freight over Obscure but people seemed fed up with both maps in terms of slower gameplay so 1 had to go.

    Turbine Pro looks to have a future, especially with anti-turtle ruleset in.

    Warmfront I played and found it…meh alright. Just last point is a hard one to push, fairly slow but if we must have 8 maps in the pool then I’d choose it over Obscure and Bazillion.

    Viaduct is an under rated map, disappointed not to see it in.

  315. Buffalo Bill: TDR » - T⑨ said:

    Hildreth, Obscure is out as well. We’ve got 7 maps in the pool.

  316. PEPSI said:

    Hildreth, Bazillion is out as well. We’ve got 7 maps in the pool > better version

  317. cappz: \\/ier ° - -[MG-C]- said:

    no obscure? fuck this

  318. Natijs said:

    Bazillion is worse than Mondays.

  319. gibix: iH said:

    finaly some new maps, getting bored of badlands and granary, bazillion gets bazillion points WOOOHOOO