Promotion / Relegation System and another Hacker Caught.

Date March 29, 2009

Promotion / Relegation System

Over on our public forums, there have been several posts concerning who will be promoted / relegated in Season 5, including newly (re)formed clans. We have created a small guide for the current season and there will be a more detailed post including this seasons Promotions / Relegations & Playoffs coming soon!

Forum Thread: [Link]

Promotion / Relegation System for Season 4: [Link]

Waffle Banned for 1 Year

Currently clanless player “Waffle” has been banned from the ETF2L and all of it’s competitions for 1 year after being caught using a Wallhack. May we thank every team that has sent us demos upon request.

Israel> Israel<span id= Waffles ETF2L Profile: [Link]


  1. m00n said:

    Now that was a surprise.. waffle.. dude.. what the…? :(

  2. waffle said:

    this is bull shit and i wont sit down and give up

  3. daniel: aHn said:


  4. waffle said:

    im not gonna give up cause couple of dumn admins think i wallack

  5. waffle said:

    if u say admins u have proff show it come on

  6. Mole: DCSB - Hey dats! said:


  7. baerbel: trick17 - trick17 said:

    dont play with hacks in pickup mate.

  8. GeneSIS^: [MIPC] said:

    hahhahahh rofl wp waffle :D

  9. m00n said:

    Don’t play with hacks ever?..

  10. ShitFly: Paracoccidioido said:

    ooned ;p

  11. daniel: aHn said:

    harush ahusharmuta ya manyak ya cheater masriahhhhhhhh

  12. daniel: aHn said:

    mjei = waffle

  13. Wlv: RaWr :: said:

    Keep the comments in english please daniel :)

  14. FireStorm: -9m- said:

    Baa here comes the where is the evidence police, just remember who is giving up there spare time to catch cheaters like you. I am sure its not just one admin who watches the demos and makes a decision.

    Playing in this league is a privilege not a right.

    Zero -> Hero -> Zero


  15. waffle said:

    u have no ffucking proff show me it come on no one said i have wallack people only thinked i got aimbot

  16. illii said:

    I almost fell off my chair *giggles*

  17. waffle said:

    u have to give proof its like the police cant just accuse some1 on murder

    they to show proof

  18. kuta: ELE said:

    wow guys its not true.

  19. Netsky: [HA] said:

  20. ruffeeh said:


  21. waffle said:



  22. ruffeeh said:

    UNLEASH THE FURY!!!!!!!!!

  23. illii said:

    Never gonna give you up
    Never gonna let you down
    Never gonna run around and desert you
    Never gonna make you cry
    Never gonna say goodbye
    Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you

    *siings* Sing along people!

  24. Predz: [DA] - [AD] said:

    still waiting for jh to get his 1 day ban :[

  25. pukz said:

    Ive played vs Waffle and he doesnt have an aimbot and if he does he should get a refund :p

    Wallhacks are easy to spot if u take the time to go through demo’s but proof should be provided i guess if it is requested otherwise admins could ban anyone they didnt like without trial!

    keep up the good work tho admins!


  26. Kira_Guy said:

    waffle, ETF2L isn’t a democracy, they can ban you without showing proofs.

  27. ruffeeh said:

    We’ve known each other for so long
    Your heart’s been aching, but
    You’re too shy to say it
    Inside we both know what’s been going on
    We know the game and we’re gonna play it

  28. waffle said:

    pukz u r right they are fucking not listing dose cunts

  29. Predz: [DA] - [AD] said:

    iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii just wanna tell you how im feeling

  30. aves said:

    flaming the admins is surely the right way to convince them of something waffle

  31. ruffeeh said:

    gotta make you

  32. Crink: -9w- said:

    gj admins

  33. AnAkIn said:


  34. pukz said:

    waffle that’s not the way to go about gettin proof if u really believe ur innocent :P

  35. Cheshire Cat said:

    and to think I was this close proposing you. that’s it, it’s over.

  36. Gniedler: T4F - FuDoo :> said:

    We’re no strangers to love

  37. Predz: [DA] - [AD] said:


  38. eoN^ said:

    Fs are people STILL asking for evidence? Are you having a giggle they havent posted any for anyone else why post some for waffle?

  39. Rake the Texas Ranger: Lutunen - [hePPa] said:

    You know the rules, and so do I. :>

  40. perry: [MIPC] said:


  41. waffle said:


  42. Rake the Texas Ranger: Lutunen - [hePPa] said:


  43. Predz: [DA] - [AD] said:

    never gonna give you up

  44. Beck said:

    i came in my pants.

  45. waffle said:

    im asking nicly from the admins to give me plz the proof and exaplin

    if u guys think im gonan give up cause im not if i would have cheated i would of gave it up 1 hour ago

  46. illii said:

    Never gonna leeet you doooown

  47. ruffeeh said:


  48. perry: [MIPC] said:

    never gonna let you down

  49. BvD: flowerpower/ said:

    Just, geez….. If you want the evidence just contact an admin and don’t rage in here. Saying this for your own sake since you’re just screwing up your own imago here. They all just laugh at you…

  50. Predz: [DA] - [AD] said:

    never gonna run around and desert you

  51. kEvNx: .#mtf said:

    i just tell you how i’m feeling

  52. ruffeeh said:


  53. Predz: [DA] - [AD] said:

    the correct response was

    never gonna make you cry

  54. Flo: ColorZ said:

    lol paranoia ftw

  55. ruffeeh said:



  56. kEvNx: .#mtf said:

    ololololololol never gonna give you up

  57. xncc.: flowerpower/ - wayne tag said:

    never gonna let you down

  58. cook: FB said:

    never gonna run around- and…

  59. SuperFly-: DANMARK said:

    No offence waffle. But as aves says, wrong approach and to be fair. If a board of admins is watching multiple demos of one person and find them suspecious. I think most people believe in their decision. Just proves they are doing their job.
    But yeah id like seeing the evidence myself aswell :P But thats just not how it works is it.

  60. ruffeeh said:


  61. Predz: [DA] - [AD] said:

    go with the funk, it is said that if you cant groove to this
    then you probably are ….

  62. ruffeeh said:


  63. Flo: ColorZ said:

    gogo admin let’s ban the community !!!

  64. zar said:


  65. ruffeeh said:


  66. Dr.LeoN said:

    WANTED: Somebody to go back in time with me to get proof that i am cheating. This is not a joke. P.O. Box 322 Jerusalem, Israel 91210. You’ll get paid after we get back. Must bring your own anti-cheat weapons. Safety not guaranteed. I have only done this once before.

  67. zar said:


  68. Cheshire Cat said:

    Lets twist again, like we did last summer

  69. Redman350: [FB] said:

    Openly acting like a dick WITH YOUR MASSIVE LETTERS is not the way to get proof.

    waffle: said: …dumn admins…
    waffle: said: …dose cunts
    waffle: said: im asking nicly…

    Hmm, maybe you’re being TOO nice?

  70. waffle said:

    srry dor my cunt word admins srry

  71. BvD: flowerpower/ said:

    kk lifetime ban =D bb

  72. ruffeeh said:


  73. Nivz: ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ - 2strong said:


  74. Predz: [DA] - [AD] said:


  75. Crink: -9w- said:


    If there’s something strange
    On cp_granary
    Well who ya gonna call?
    Cheat busters!

    If there’s something weird
    And it don’t look good
    Well man who can ya call
    Cheat busters!

    Who, I ain’t afraid of no hax
    Who, I ain’t afraid of no hax

    If you’re seeing things
    Running through the walls
    Well who ya gonna call
    Cheat busters!

    An invisible man
    is under your cap
    Now who can you call
    Cheat busters!

    Who, I ain’t afraid of no hax
    NO Who, I ain’t afraid of no hax
    Who ya gonna call…
    Cheat busters!

    If you’re getting owned
    Pick up the phone
    And call…
    Cheat busters!

    You fat dopes and freaky hax
    Now, who ya gonna call…
    Cheat busters!


    Who ya gonna call…
    Cheat busters! (x4)


  76. Beck said:


  77. Heliana said:

    Kill the Lights

  78. jonni the juicy jew: [FB] said:

    omg crink that’s epic!

  79. waebi: ‹Con› said:

    mmm. helped a tiny bit. Sadly there are diff. versions of it, so my mind ceased to work on it.

  80. SuperFly-: DANMARK said:

    Hahahahaha Heard waebi and crink singing abit on mumble but didnt think too much about it ;P

  81. Crink: -9w- said:

    (c) Crink + Waebi Productions.

  82. ruffeeh said:


  83. illii said:

    Super, record the singing for me, i needs entertainment

  84. Madness. said:

    Never gonna give you up ……………………

    < join’s in trying to be cool :(

  85. Zap said:

    mah boi this peace is what all true warriors strive for

  86. ruffeeh said:


  87. Wlv: RaWr :: said:

    Thinks that’s enough spam now ruffeh?

  88. numlocked: (king of all rollouts) - Epsilon said:

    hey hey you you i dont like your girlfriend

  89. Mirelin: XYUCAC said:

    Maybe admin’s can give us link to demos? To accuse without proofs isn’t correctly. My own opinion.

  90. ruffeeh said:


  91. illii said:

    Ruffeh just gets a bit excited when there is singing involved. Don’t mind him. Come on now Ruffeh, time to go to the vet. *puts leash on ruffeh and whistles*

  92. xtala said:

    I wonder when people will give up this giev evidence pl0x shit.

    On a more serious note: Crink, Waebi: when will your cd be released.

  93. MastahBlastah: keso said:

    Why show evidence when the cheater himself knows that he did it? Lying is worse than cheating IMO

  94. Azured: eureka said:

    on a completely unrelated side note, I like the explanation of the relegation/promotion system. It would have solved a problem or two if it had been posted earlier in the season.

    Oh, and ehh,… Never gonna let you down?

  95. waebi: ‹Con› said:

    xtala, could take some time. Maybe @i36 when we have oggy as well :)

  96. Aye Doc: d2f~ said:

    waffle spent like half of a pickup that he wasn’t even in teling me and fisshu about his clothes and kosher food once… to believe he could ever hack… :'(

  97. Wlv: RaWr :: said:

    Azured I’m quite sure it was posted right at the start of the season as well, just not linked in the rules

  98. Puppets said:

    hey hey you you i think you need a new one

  99. The Postman said:

    Seriously, someone should disable comments after someones been banned. It just turns into a spamfest

  100. lassizci: on a horse said:

    Hell no! Days at work would be boring without these comments!

  101. GibbZ: WOOOOO! said:

    “u have no ffucking proff show me it come on no one said i have wallack u have no ffucking proff show me it come on no one said i have wallack people only thinked i got aimbotpeople only thinked i got aimbot”


  102. GibbZ: WOOOOO! said:

    +1 to pukz.

  103. ulv: h. - Liero said:

    @The Postman: but you dont have to read them, do you? :)

  104. d0llar said:

    Everybody was kung fu fighting!

  105. OVERTIME » ארכיון הבלוג » Waffle נתפס על צ’יטים said:

    […] FLAME בין Waffle לבין שאר העולם התרבותי, אותה נתן לראות בעמוד ההודעה. אנו מאחלים לWaffle הצלחה בהמשך ומקווים שבשנה הבאה, כאשר […]

  106. numlocked: (king of all rollouts) - Epsilon said:

    lol at comment above me

  107. tapley: TEZC - TEZC said:

    lol apperntly he was showing someone a cheat in a pickup as a “joke” thats almost as bad an excuse as “LOL MY BROTHER WALLHACKZ IN CS?!?! IT WASNT ME”

  108. U-die said:

    Enjoyed this ban, lol Waffle =)


  109. Digiwill: =[IDK]= said:

    What’s up with hackers and their English skills? It’s a joke really.

    Who’s next =)

  110. JamesBong: Lapinou Team said:

    You weren’t trying to defend other hackers that didnt get proof before If you want proof … go and study to be a lawyer and stop ruining our games with hacks

  111. Norris said:

    numlocked, no wai no wai =)

  112. Xzar: puppeli said:

    they see me hackin, they hatin

  113. lassizci: on a horse said:

    these bans will never heal

  114. hänsen: Team Popo! said:

    lets tell you a story:

    i played cs 1.6 on a public server where i was admin on and always got aimbotwarnings on my own via adminpm’s on de_westwood without any reason (no i wasnt cheating).

    none other map, just de_westwood :p

    it’s in no relation to this topic but i was just bored and wanted to mention that :D

  115. fallen seraph: rEJ said:


  116. Gniedler: T4F - FuDoo :> said:

    I whistled for a cab and when it came near
    The license plate said fresh and it had dice in the mirror
    If anything I can say this cab is rare
    But I thought ‘Now forget it’ – ‘Yo homes to Bel Air’

    I pulled up to the house about 7 or 8
    And I yelled to the cabbie ‘Yo homes smell ya later’
    I looked at my kingdom
    I was finally there
    To sit on my throne as the Prince of Bel Air

  117. The Insane Exfane: EPA - TWIN said:


  118. fabetroma said:

    “# Kira_Guy: said:

    March 29th, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    waffle, ETF2L isn’t a democracy, they can ban you without showing proofs.”

    They did the same a few weeks ago? have you forgotten?
    I’m sad, i Thought the next one hacker would be a french player…maybe in a few days? please admin Find Him and ban Him!
    No other Sharing account bans? But there are so many people still sharing in the league…


  119. codcrille: Fresh. said:

    I see a little silhouetto of a man
    Scaramouche, Scaramouche
    Will you do the Fandango?

  120. GibbZ: WOOOOO! said:

    Hey waffle, I heard you’re mom had a one night stand with a french man. True story dude.

  121. mnsu1vrh said:

    To be honest, this comments thread lost all interest after Crink and Waebi stopped singing. God, sometimes I love you TF2 guys.

  122. Newbie said:

    I <3 Gibbz.

    Soon you will have to be cheat screened when your team enters!

  123. GibbZ: WOOOOO! said:

    I’ve got an admin already on my side ;)

    gogo bribery

  124. Masther: Actimel said:

    hungry eyes

  125. gEEk!: Mc\\\'s said:



  126. Oggy said:

    I KNEW IT die hackers!

  127. SatlanNumberOne: Doj. said:

    lol, for that i have to respond!

  128. esmii said:

    I can’t say I’m surprised ;s

  129. waffle said:

    stfu Gibbz

  130. Black-Dawn: Fatal. said:

    While waffle should be banned for the crime of being waffle :).
    I still think the proof should be posted.

    name one international league of any sport where a person can be
    disqualified for cheating without proof?


  131. waffle said:

    תודה בלאק דאון

    black-down is right. people allways called my cheating (aimbot) not wallhack

    and epartnely i dont do any of these stuff but only i know that

    im asking for demos so the cummnity gets them

  132. waffle said:

    u can just randomll ban some1 for hacking

    cause u dont have to give any1 proof and thats purely bull shit.

  133. cook: FB said:

    waffle, have you even been paying attention to the previous cheater arguments?

    There is proof and there are reasons for not showing it, so stfu and take it like a man, shorty.

  134. waffle said:

    i wont take it like a man cause i didnt use wallhack

    if i would use it FFS i would of hade addimited

  135. cook: FB said:

    Of course waffle, of course you would have.

  136. Flo: ColorZ said:

    Don’t worry waffle you’re not the first :)

  137. waffle said:

    im not the first what Flo?

  138. Oggy said:

    Give us a H give us a A give us a C give us a K give us a E give us a R wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo HACKER!

  139. Abra said:

    Admins maby you should upload demos? Need some guy with WH to watch them with it and say for sure..I wont to see them too…

  140. Abra said:

    I mean that maby that was not cheats but skill.YoU know i make so crazy killz sometimes on pickups when play solly/demo that I scaried be banned.But its skill ffs/ It’s posible to count respown time,feel when someone will appear,make trap and blow it even without wathcing in those direction…. So make demos(proofs) Public.Please.

    Sorry for English)))

  141. Flo: ColorZ said:


    for that

    “u can just randomll ban some1 for hacking

    cause u dont have to give any1 proof and thats purely bull shit.”

  142. xtala said:

    Did you even read cook’s reply?
    The reasons have been mentioned tons of times.
    And besides, this isn’t a democracy.

  143. robben: Kot=Brot said:

    fkkkkkin cheaters. BAN THEM ALL and they all dont deserve 2nd chance.

    btw Flo. i remember an pcw against colorz.
    Flo was the scout with the shittiest movement ive ever seen that instanly startet aimbotting after loosing. LOL that was so funny AND obvious.

    i mean you could se he is a bad scout with no movement, but suddenly hitted every shot ;O

  144. Flo: ColorZ said:

    LOL just rage let me lol

  145. Kop: [CiC] - CiC said:

    Guys we WILL NOT show demo’s, this has been said numerous times.
    We spend alot of time checking demo;s and working hard to make this a clean and fair league.

    No one admin can ban a player, it has to go through the team and talked out properly so that we don’t go banning innocent players.

    Luckily lots of you understand this and make our job easier but surely by now the rest of you should realise that we won’t release demo’s or proof and never will!!!!

    Like someone said “Playing in this league is a privilege not a right.” and we spend hours of our own personal time making sure it really is a privilege.

  146. CommanderX: (ETF2L Donator) - TEZC said:

    Are we taking bets on the nationality of the next person to get banned?

  147. AntiRox said:

    We called him a cheater all the time but we realy didnt know its real 0_0

  148. vlad_drac: xoxo said:

    To the guy who said “Name 1 international sport where you can get banned without proof. They always show proof.”

    Do you mean you actually get a sample of a sportsman’s piss sent to you and you test it for anabolic steroid usage? Or do you read the verdict of an expert who says “This guy uses anabolic steroids.”

    I know some admins and i know they actually spend time finding out about the latest cheats to know what to look for, they go out of their way for this stuff just so we can play in a potentially cheat free league. These guys are the experts and i trust them. Imagine the amount of work that would have to go into “showing proof”. They’d have to demonstrate how the cheats work, then let alone watching hours of footage to see the cheat-like actions of a player, they’d have to spend time formatting the footage so you can see it too. Then debate for 3 hours with you over whether it looks accurate or not. Then where does it end?

    If, like you say, the community DEMANDS proof and MUST HAVE proof and all these other phrases of compulsion, then the community will just vote with their feet and leave the league. Let’s face it, i feel quite safe in this league because i know i don’t fucking cheat and i never fucking have, so i’m not going to get banned. So there’s no point in cheaters trying to make everyone feel outraged that they can “ban people with impugnity”. It doesn’t happen. If you sign up to this privately run league, if you cheat, then you will be kicked by this privately run league. They don’t owe you shit.

  149. waffle said:

    vlad_drac u mnow i respect u man so respect me to when i say i dont cheat and i didnt

  150. Bjuo said:

    mjei –> banned from mpuk invite for swearing –> waffle –> banned from etf2l for hacking –> whats shall be his next account then?

  151. Traxantic: TLR said:


  152. Black-Dawn: Fatal. said:

    vlad_drac Please do not put words in my mouth or misquote me.

    I did not say : “Name 1 international sport where you can get banned without proof. They always show proof.”

    My problem is that the admins are human beings and as such they can make mistakes.
    Yes they are aware of this and take steps to reduce the problem, but an innocent player
    may still be banned and be left without any course of action to dispute the verdict.

    Right now the admins are determining guilt using mostly circumstantial evidence
    because this is pretty much the extent of the tools they have available to them.
    I’m sure that the admins are right regarding the vast majority of the cases
    but is it worth banning one innocent just to get 49 hackers? that is the moral question.

    regarding international competitions : afaik these require HARD proof.
    testing positive for anabolics is analog to getting VAC banned (or by another anticheat )program, which is different than circumstantial proof.

    Yes this is a private league and as such the admins can ban whomever they please
    and for whatever reason. BUT if like myself you would like online gaming to be treated as
    an international sport you have to hold yourself to an higher standard.


  153. cook: FB said:


  154. Bjuo said:

    lol cook
    understanding your joke, I have to disagree with that
    90% of Israel were sure hes hacking for the last 2 months and are happy that he’s caught.

  155. ^dazed said:

    I didn’t know Waffle was French!

    Sorry bad joke :S

    Seriously though Waffle was seen aimbotting in a pickup 2 days ago and when asked why his crosshair was shaking he said “because i’m cold”…..I mean LOL ….. how cold could it have been in Israel? 30c ? 40c ?


  156. notger: dp. - dp. said:

    Good work, admins. Thanks a lot for your time and effort.

    Cheaters are lousy s.o.b.s and I am glad for every cheater removed. In fact, you should sentence life-long bans if the cheater stands up and denies his cheating.
    You should repent and say your are sorry, but it seems there is no feeling of guilt at all. Kids these days …. tststs.

    Anyway, sure, sometimes someone gets caught who is innocent, but hey, that is how it is. And I think that the admins are pretty hesitant on banning (there is more banning in the ESL), so I do not think that there are too many innocent people found guilty out there.

  157. holzkopp*: EC! said:

    omfg got I read the whole comments above me .. i must be really stupid D:

  158. holzkopp*: EC! said:


  159. Typh0n: AUTOBOTS said:

    “In fact, you should sentence life-long bans if the cheater stands up and denies his cheating.
    You should repent and say your are sorry, but it seems there is no feeling of guilt at all.”
    Wow luckily you’re not an admin:x

    “Anyway, sure, sometimes someone gets caught who is innocent, but hey, that is how it is.”
    let’s hope it won’t happen to you cause i’ll be here to say hey thats how it is =>

  160. vlad_drac: xoxo said:

    Do you even know what circumstantial evidence means? Like if i accused viqun of cheating and showed a demo of him hitting me across a map with a rocket just as i came around a corner 300 miles away. You can’t link the proposed ‘proof’ to the accusation of ‘cheat’, but you can link the accusation to the circumstance and use it to hint at a theory – and so it’s circumstantial.

    This isn’t an international sport in the way that you’re saying. Nor is it trying to be nor can it ever be. Even CS1.6 nor CSS isn’t. We’re like the 12 y/o football club that plays on my local field. If a kid in that team used performance enhancing drugs, he wouldn’t get a FIFA appointed drug team sent to my field demanding a piss test. The kid would play on to higher levels until he reached a point where the sport was prestigious enough to warrant thorough testing on all players.

    That’s like us. We’re playing for fun and there’s little/no money involved. We’re closer to an international (or even non-international) sport at LAN events when people are under scrutiny and there IS larger sums of money involved. They’ll either be seen as a cheater or they’ll play utter shit and people will begin to suspect.

    To imagine league play would be like a large scale sport is ludicrous right now. Do you think ETF2L could ever fund an international crack anti-cheat squad who went to people’s houses and watched them for a week to see if they cheated/sucked suddenly? Would the parents of the 16 y/o be ok with admins stood around perving on their kid? There is not enough prestige in this game for that to be anywhere near a reality right now. So that makes us like the 12 y/o football team, we’re all playing at an amateur/beginner level. There’s no other level to be at.

    But these guys still try their best to provide SOME level of policing which is more than most other sports provide to people playing at this level of competition.

    Aimbots are still bots – a combination of algorithms and patterns – and so they work to identifiable patterns if you know what to look for – if you’ve wasted the hours of your life learning how cheats work/the game works like the admins do. This team of admin scours through hour after hour after hour of proof wasting their own time to try and better the community they made for us. They talk to each other and do serious research on cheats to know down to the smallest movement of a mouse aim what to look for. And they discuss it between a large team of people who know about the game and they get a consensus.

    At the end of the day there’s only 1 person i trust 100% to NOT be cheating and that’s me, it’s all i can trust. Till the day i get banned (and i’m 100% sure i won’t because i don’t cheat), i’ll defend the admins for doing what they do for us.

  161. vlad_drac: xoxo said:

    lol walloftext again, idiots make me ragetype

  162. CHewY said:

    opened my browser and i loaded this thread and i JIZZED IN MY PANTS