Cheating Issue – ColorZ account sharing + A number of cheaters banned

Date March 22, 2009

Another sad day for our community. Cheating is becoming a more frequent sight in etf2l.
In the last week we have uncovered more cheating and rule evading then I thought this community could ever throw at us.

1 Year bans:

Major warning (1 point deduction):

  • 9th.forzew – for use of an illegal fastfire script

I’m afraid that’s not all. After looking into ColorZ due to what is mentioned above we
discovered that team ColorZ has been sharing their accounts with each other and with other people mercing for them.

Not knowing what to do with such a massive attempt to evade the rules of etf2l we decided that all accounts which were used in this account sharing scam will be banned until season 5 is over:

We hope no measures of this magnitude will ever have to be used again. please let this be a warning for everyone who still thinks you can get away with cheating.

674 Comments

  1. NOT-HIM: GC said:

    gj etf2l crew and whoever helped to get this info
    it’s sad but probably there will be more to come ;o

  2. Newbie said:

    It’s pretty sad, but at the same time… damn boy you owned those cheating scum!

  3. frooker said:

    well done

  4. ChOun: iCon said:

    My team is cheating ;DDDDDD

    I don’t understand the dicision, Flo is a amazing sniper.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn5TiP2yK6k&feature=channel_page

  5. Origo said:

    WTFFFFF ?!!!

  6. Flo: ColorZ said:

    im not a cheater :(

  7. skinnie: TCM said:

    gj admins

  8. ChOun: iCon said:

    and don’t understand other account :

    Typhon Origo Redomptor Epha ( ffa player :D ), Guardian ( team pbp, another fairplay team :p )

  9. numlocked: (king of all rollouts) - Epsilon said:

    pathetic :/

  10. Origo said:

    styfler , my friend with only half life 2 game :D

    336 jour no connect

  11. futari: fail said:

    gg etf2l~

  12. gLongas said:

    gj, Heliana France National Team Leader o.O

  13. howdeh: Perilous - WUL said:

    ROFL
    this is epic.
    these guys are a disgrace :DDD

  14. Klaria: ptt. said:

    “A disgrace” is exactly what I thought when I saw one of the best French team members getting banned for cheating.. Don’t let that become a stereotype toward all Frenchs players please..

  15. Bury said:

    french at it again

  16. Lucifu said:

    vive la france :D

  17. Origo said:

  18. GeneSIS^: [MIPC] said:

    :DD gg etf2l

  19. gEEk!: Mc\\\'s said:

    Nice, gg guys :)

  20. fof-ath said:

    pathetic.
    gj admin

  21. hentai-kun: ORKZORKZORKZORK said:

    tbh it’s hard to believe in this accusations :\

  22. ChOun: iCon said:

    I seek team, pm me plz, hate cheaters

  23. paixhaine: H! said:

    WOW NICE JOB ETF2L ADMINS

  24. Nept said:

    Lol Choun.

  25. Guardian said:

    i loled ! nice joke admins ! AGAIN please !!

  26. Contra: Be said:

    sad for Sensei tbh nice guy but no respect for cheaters though…

  27. NoBrain said:

    OMAGAD!!

    Shame

  28. funnY said:

    France représente 8-)

  29. AmZi: Inc. said:

    GG @ ETF2L for what you did, those french guys were allways flaming some others about skills and all arround …. Especially Heliana… Shame on them … May g0d forgive them their badness…

  30. REDEMPTOR: DAKKA said:

    OK OK, The joke end’s here.

    Flo cheating? where and how ? tell me plz because I never see him doing something suspect. NICE JOKE.

    Sion.be he have play 30 hours at the beginning of tf2 and more of it isn’t in our list of player. NICE AGAIN.

    Styfler haven’t play for more than 300 day and not have TF2 HAHAHAHAH NICE JOKE AGAIN???

    Who is smeagol haven’t tf2 NICE JOKE AGAIN :)

    Well That really nice for the most populare league to kick randomly people.

  31. Contra: Be said:

    LOOK OUt FRENCH PERSON RAGING!!!

  32. numlocked: (king of all rollouts) - Epsilon said:

    i dont understand what you just said lol

  33. Obi: DA! said:

    I’m ashamed to be french…

  34. numlocked: (king of all rollouts) - Epsilon said:

    putain?

  35. Peloch: PBP # said:

    Gj admin joke do u know Jean roukass ????

  36. gEEk!: Mc\\\'s said:

    I loled numlocked :)

  37. Flo: ColorZ said:

    srly i want proof for me.

  38. Wlv: RaWr :: said:

    Redemptor they were all linked via the account sharing, regardless if they havent played tf2 recently – they wont be for at least another year.

  39. Guardian said:

    OMG wlv, they DIDN’T have TF2 on their Accounts.. you understand ?

  40. holzkopp*: EC! said:

    ban them all!

  41. jess: oRigin` said:

    plz, proofs

  42. REDEMPTOR: DAKKA said:

    THEY DON’T HAVE THE GAME. THAT PROOF THAT YOU KICK RANDOMLY

    Do you know clanbase ? You should learn from them.

  43. Agron: Relic said:

    well what the hell are they playing tf2 then if they do not own the game :DDD

  44. PiPo: clickN` - -Hf- said:

    … Crazy !!!!

  45. SpaRR said:

    gg france , best cheater ever !

  46. Nept said:

    Funny, how could they cheat / multi account on TF2 if the account dont even got TF2?

    Why not just lets say you people just ban players you dont like ?

    Oh and by the way, stop your comments about french players, that sound like (just a bit) racist..:]

    FREE GUARD FREE §

  47. Guardian said:

    Is it forbidden to share an account to play tf2 mods ? i personnaly played with the styffler account when i start playing Zombie Master tf2 mod with Origo around 1 year ago ? IS IT forbidden to play in a league 1 year later with friends or another team and another account on tf2 ? and is it forbidden to play on another account when your personnal account were hack and during the time valve give you idents accounts again ? please, open your eyes guys…

  48. Contra: Be said:

    maybe ppl need to stop cheating and then they wouldnt get randomly banned yes or not… if they ban you thay would have good reason to it and not accepting that = GAY

  49. Peloch: PBP # said:

    Want proof for everyone if possible, u ban them in front of everybody, so show proof in front of everybody !!!!! So 2 possibility for admin -show us or -ghost proof, and excuse for all of them ^^

  50. Sidney: idk? - Saddam\'s Army said:

    Flo is too bad to have an aimbot :(

  51. Pomme said:

    can i understand why is it forbid to cheat on other account which aren’t even register to etf2l. My main account, the only one register here, is clean because i never cheat with it in any match. imagine my brother cheat on his account then u ban me ? just stupid.
    GJ to ban player who haven’t tf2

  52. Hansa: .idk? said:

    Allons enfant de la patrie
    Le jour de gloire est arrivé
    Contre nous de la tyrannie
    L’étandard sanglant est levé
    L’étandard sanglant est lévé…

    to be continued…

    :-(

  53. waebi: ‹Con› said:

    burn them with fire.

  54. julieN1: cQr said:

    well played, gg.

  55. Contra: Be said:

    @ Peloch: read the comment of Wlv on the previous news about cheaters. in there he explains why they wouldnt show it.

  56. anty: 2ne1 said:

    lully winz again. gg :D

  57. Xqntor said:

    Please don’t ban my WoW account !

  58. Hydro-Dharma said:

    WTFFFF. Guardian Cheater?? bad Joke. Guard is a medic. So what? He used seringues guided to target ?? plz stop this fake news.

    Why all cheaters in this list are French? where are the cheaters of other nations?

    Like said our friend Klaria:

    >>>>> Don’t let that become a stereotype toward all Frenchs players <<<<<

  59. Contra: Be said:

    Sensei isnt french…

  60. Pax: ColorZ - Rw. said:

    Noice job with bannin playars who dont have tf2 :d Or a player who dont play or / connecting from long time .

  61. anonymous said:

    ELLE EST BIEN BELLE LA FRANCE …

  62. Dave: Mafia - wMiC? said:

    Yes, there is a fucking problem if you start account sharing. The only means we have to verify who is playing in a team is through checking their Steam IDs, that’s why we have to take screenshots.

    As soon as you start handing fucking accounts out, you can’t tell who the hell is playing, which is unfair. You do it, you deserve to get royally screwed. Stop whinning you French twats and get a life.

  63. Typh0n: AUTOBOTS said:

    totalitarism thanks anakin;)

  64. REDEMPTOR: DAKKA said:

    sharing account? sry to play left for dead or warhammer on the account of a friend, sry to have not enough money to buy it SRY SRY SORRY PLEASE FORGIVE ME……………

    SO sharing is also a joke :)

  65. anonymous said:

    Ban every single french people !

  66. fabetroma said:

    is it an april fish ? ^^

  67. Nept said:

    Dave: nervous, your joking or your just a retarded newblet kid ?

    Account has been shared, but NOT ON TF2. not in FFA, either in league / friendly.

    So you should get a life.

  68. Contra: Be said:

    sharing a game = copying a game and Oh thats illegal :o so dot whine about it

  69. Pax: ColorZ - Rw. said:

    I GET A “GODWIN POINT” , just wiki it if u dont understand :d
    Need proofs : no, u dont, get a life. Yepee

  70. anonymous said:

    Everybody calm down and let’s all go party @@@@@@@@@@@

  71. PiPo: clickN` - -Hf- said:

    Ici Londres, je répète ici Londres, les français parlent aux français.
    Petit message personnel : jean a de longues moustache…

    Unbearable… Would you juste give proof. Some player in this list cannot be cheater (exept those who are using Aimbot). Reconsider !!
    !!!!!!!!!!Free ORIGO and GUARD !!!!!

  72. Tsu: RaWr :: said:

    Can’t wait next sunday’s news ;p

  73. paixhaine: H! said:

    Anakin for the win \o/

  74. ChOun: iCon said:

    Leave Flo Alone ! :(

  75. Stam said:

    i don’t understand about this news … Oh My God …

  76. paixhaine: H! said:

    “sharing a game = copying a game and Oh thats illegal :o so dot whine about it”

    Contra you are awesome at being retarded, hope you were just joking around :)

  77. frooker said:

    “can i understand why is it forbid to cheat on other account which aren’t even register to etf2l. My main account, the only one register here, is clean because i never cheat with it in any match. imagine my brother cheat on his account then u ban me ? just stupid.”

    What’s your point? I don’t want to play with any cheaters, it doesn’t matter if they do it on public only or not. If you cheat, you have to deal with the consequences.

  78. Origo said:

    next week : all french player ban for <3 Frogg legs :D

  79. Contra: Be said:

    actually i wasnt :p but i prob phrased myself wrong what i meant was that 1 game is actually for 1 player and not more…

  80. SfnX: T2P said:

    never thought ud need cheats to play low+ tf2…oh well they deserved it then

  81. Peloch: PBP # said:

    Anakin are u still sad because everybody don’t want to be in your new FOF team ??? Just try ricoré for ur breakfeast ^^

  82. paixhaine: H! said:

    Contra:
    Have you ever invited one of your friend at your house to show him your new game and let him play on your comp ? That’s exactly the same … not really illegal, only one player can play at a time

  83. cook: FB said:

    ANAKIN LOOK AT ME IM MAKING A FUNNY JOKE

  84. op: DiG said:

    die?

  85. Captainhax: AwS - DA! said:

    Putain ENFIN § :D

  86. Nept said:

    Peloch, dude, stfu please please please ! stop flame Anakin(g) ! Hes like a god here, i dont wanna be ban’d for no reason like he did for colorz :(

  87. Contra: Be said:

    Actually if you closely read the rules that is forbidden to… its even forbidden to show movies to great groups like a class (thats rlly retared to) but what my point is these ppl would prob played more then once on those account and like Valve!s rules subscribe its forbidden to share accounts.

  88. Maman said:

    Steam News :

    http://store.steampowered.com/about/

    Play your games on any PC
    Once you have a Steam account, you can sign in from any PC to access your games. Your games are associated with your account, not your computer.

    Ho ho ho ho

  89. daf: yoyotech - Hey dats! said:

    Good stuff admins, appreciate the work put in. Keep catching them!

  90. REDEMPTOR: DAKKA said:

    “can i understand why is it forbid to cheat on other account which aren’t even register to etf2l. My main account, the only one register here, is clean because i never cheat with it in any match. imagine my brother cheat on his account then u ban me ? just stupid.”

    What’s your point? I don’t want to play with any cheaters, it doesn’t matter if they do it on public only or not. If you cheat, you have to deal with the consequences.

    Hey, for ten years playing fps, I never have seen that league rules are applicated on public server.

  91. waebi: ‹Con› said:

    lawl stickies.

  92. kaidus: 7 - WiK? said:

    Cant he complaining croissants please provide some evidence (really how hard is it to take a screenshot) to support their claims that some accounts didn’t own TF2, or get the fuck back to monopoly where it’s easy to cheat and not get caught.

    Au revoir.

  93. Guardian said:

    The steam concept is to play on a game in ANY pc or connection… i’m a bad person, i played zombie master with a friend steam account ! OH PLEASE SLAP ME AGAIN ! HARDER, STRONGER ! I’M A BAD PERSON ! I HAVE TO BURN IN HELL FOR THIS

  94. Fragga: FRAGGA`s - RIP said:

    HAHAHAHAHAHAH and he had the cheek to say I was shit!

  95. op: DiG said:

    we played colours like the other day, sad news tbh. Get clean bitches!

  96. Bash said:

    Gg France.

  97. Oggy said:

    Don’t cheat newbs find it funny tho 2 french players from the same clan, I’m amazed the k1ck management haven’t had anything to say about it.

  98. Contra: Be said:

    Fragga you are… <3

  99. numlocked: (king of all rollouts) - Epsilon said:

    3 oggy ;)

    http://steamfriends.sourcebans.net/index.php?p=banlist&searchText=STEAM_0:0:16858056&Submit

  100. Origo said:

    Leave Flo Alone, he don’t cheat !

  101. op: DiG said:

    Also forzew clean your shit you twat

  102. Peloch: PBP # said:

    Anakin i search a player for my line up come and don’t ban me plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  103. m00n said:

    *Slaps Guardian*

  104. Contra: Be said:

    @ Guardian: no only banned.

  105. Peloch: PBP # said:

    “Leave Flo Alone, he don’t cheat !”

  106. Guardian said:

    Leave Flo Alone, he don’t cheat !

  107. fabetroma said:

    Flo don’t cheat, Leave Flo Alone Just leave him alooooonnneeeee…

  108. Nept said:

    No, he suck as demo. Really, baddest player ever.

  109. Maman said:

    Leave Flo Alone, he don’t cheat !

  110. op: DiG said:

    fo?

  111. Serialloser: Hys. - NoraJ. said:

    Leave Flo and Origo Alone, they don’t cheat !

    Anakin if you’re sad nobody wants you, buy a life and leave the people which didn’t want you in their lineup alone

  112. Pomme said:

    Leave Flo Alone, he don’t cheat !

  113. Hydro-Dharma said:

    (Blond hair voice: On) Just Leave Flo Alone, he don’t cheat ! (Blond hair voice: Off)

  114. REDEMPTOR: DAKKA said:

    Leave Flo Alone, he don’t cheat !

  115. Jiin: zOo said:

    Leave Payard alooooone plzzzzzzzzzzzz !!!!!!!!!! :'( :'( :'(

  116. Sidney: idk? - Saddam\'s Army said:

    “Leave Flo Alone, he doESn’t cheat !”

  117. ChOun: iCon said:

    Leave Flo Alone, he doESn’t cheat !

  118. Gobi: WSB? said:

    Free ORIGO he is not a cheater !! And he loves my deep and sensual voice…
    Well gg admins but don’t stop , there must be other cheaters to burn in public place… And not only french cheater^^
    Vive les kikoolol pgm qui suxxx sans aimbot…

  119. Maman said:

    On steam About : (store.steampowered.com)

    => Play your games on any PC:

    Once you have a Steam account, you can sign in from any PC to access your games. Your games are associated with your account, not your computer

    This Gift !

  120. andhraya: .:PBP:. said:

    Leave Flo Alone, he don’t cheat ! (got a blond hair voice ;)

  121. Origo said:

    i really don’t understand ….

    really i don’t beleive this news

  122. Flo: ColorZ said:

    totaty unfair… it’s pathetic

  123. Jiin: zOo said:

    Hey guyz big brother is watching you !

    http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/marmotte/video/x2bqqc_la-marmotte_animals

  124. Contra: Be said:

    YOUR games.. rlly go check the rules and not only the advertisment kthnxbb

  125. Peloch: PBP # said:

    ETF2L is gooooood (anakin ???) valve and steam r only his puppet ^^

  126. fabetroma said:

    (Flood ON)
    I can’t believe the news today

    Oh, I can’t close my eyes

    And make it go away

    How long…

    How long must we sing this song

    How long, how long…

    ’cause tonight…we can be as one (Flood OFF)

  127. Obi: DA! said:

    They flame other french players but they cheat … GJ Heliana, team France leader.

  128. Hydro-Dharma said:

    andhraya <3 your blond hair voice ^^

  129. Nept said:

    [Quote]# Obi: |TAF| said:

    March 22nd, 2009 at 10:49 pm

    I’m ashamed to be french…[/QUOTE]

    Im Ashamed to see you are french. :(

    Gaffe, ca te degouline du menton dude.

  130. Nim said:

    let’s origo alone it’s just an emo, that’s all!!!!!!!!!!!!

  131. Janman: k0 said:

    Play in a cheater account is a fail!

  132. fabetroma said:

    Hydro stop trying to pick up her, you are too old XD <3

  133. Jiin: zOo said:

    Jaloux

  134. Nim said:

    Oh Crap , I seek brain , help me………

  135. fabetroma said:

    Jiin i got mine :) and love ^^

  136. neO: L51 said:

    Sad how
    “One French team was spotted cheating/sharing accounts…”
    becomes for some
    “Get every French guy’s head”

    And even if I can imagine there must be at least some guilty ppl in the whole mess I still think it’s strange we’re not given a proof for even just one guy in this long list…

    (anyway don’t ban me, I’ll switch off my random lolcat spray generator I swear)

  137. Nim said:

    eyh Anakin prochaine team fr que tu ban jte donnerais un nutz!!!

  138. Captainhax: AwS - DA! said:

    MAIS OUER GO BAN LES FR PUTAIN QUE DES CHEATERS :=D

  139. Nept said:

    Si on part du principe que tout ceux qui jouent mieux que Anakin cheat, alors oé, toute la communauté FR va finir bannie, y compris DKT. :/

  140. Hydro-Dharma said:

    +1

  141. Nept said:

    D’ailleurs, on me dis a l’oreille que Anakin lui meme aurai creer Cp_orange_x pour pouvoir avoir une map a son niveau de brain.

    Des infos a ce sujet ?

  142. fabetroma said:

    LAUL,Anakin just get raped I mean …

  143. Nim said:

    +2

  144. Pomme said:

    anakin le mec qu’a tous les cheat du monde installé sur son pc, CHANGEMENT DE NIVEAU Brutal (dans le mauvais sens certes mais bon)

    BANNEZ LE

  145. Plapla: DA! said:

    WAH TROP LOUL SA TAUNT SUR TOUT LMONDE ICI

  146. Maman said:

    la on peut dire c’est … CADEAUUU !!!

  147. Nim said:

    Anakin etant francais , tu devras bien te ban aussi un jour………

  148. Grem: rEJ - TG said:

    Whoa

  149. Nept said:

    Il tue jamais personne.. Qu’es tu veux qu’il soit soupsonné ? oO

  150. Shintaz: TEZC - MONSTERFRAGGEN said:

    so like
    what
    like
    lols cheats
    etf2l is one clean beast!!

  151. Nim said:

    meme avec ces cheat il toucherait pas un éléphant dans un couloir….

  152. Peloch: PBP # said:

    (_o_)

    Anakinnnnnnnnnnnn met la nous profons ho ouiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

  153. b_noit said:

    que ce soit Anakin ou un autre , les cheats reste tj interdit , je vois meme pas pourquoi vous vous permettez de flammé :-/

  154. Gobi: WSB? said:

    Anakin méfie toi du coté obscure^^
    Et parle nous de tes exploits sur CSS…

  155. Captainhax: AwS - DA! said:

    ANAKIN PRESIDENT QUOI :D

  156. Hydro-Dharma said:

    ANAKIN, you are french too so you’re the weakest link

  157. Contra: Be said:

    ETF2L french site all of a sudden?? if you got something interesting to say, say it in english if not STFU plz and creat a private french steam group called “french whine(ers)” that would be funny…

  158. Plapla: DA! said:

    B_noit > sarko

  159. Gobi: WSB? said:

    We’re just saying that anakin is a no-life who is searching for people to ban just because he’s got no friends…
    That’s all folks

  160. Nept said:

    Ok Contra, ill translate for you, cuz im in a good mood tonight.

    You are retarded as Anakin is.

    Sound like clean nd better for you now?

  161. Nim said:

    power Ranger jealous, u want too?!?

  162. Jiin: zOo said:

    ETF2L started a genocide French, RUN MY FRIENDS RUN FFS!§!!!!§!!

  163. op: DiG said:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtSdJeDpjkk

  164. Stimpack: pck.` said:

    AnAkIn is not an admin and have nothing to do with this, if they are ban thats they cheat that all, stop to whine. Shame on us.

  165. Typh0n: AUTOBOTS said:

    So what btw i invite the whole community to check something, try to find at least one match played with

    * smeagol
    * socrat_tfc
    * Sion.be
    * Styfler
    * Epha
    * michelleklint
    * InPeX^2

    On etf2l. Thx

  166. Nim said:

    go buy brains stimpack, and stop sucks admins!!!!

  167. Winneh: [s7] said:

    Some of you guys should seriously read a bit more carefully, specially the part who gets banned or banished for what reason.

    ESL has been just one of many sources where we aquired informations.

    As everyone should know by now, we dont ban without evidence.

  168. Jiin: zOo said:

    Like people who dont have the game ?

  169. Peloch: PBP # said:

    give url

  170. Typh0n: AUTOBOTS said:

    We never played on esl colorz just doesn’t exist on esl;) and why do you say he’s banned for cheating in pcw ? whats the link with esl?

  171. Gniedler: T4F - FuDoo :> said:

    and I thought Germans couldn’t speak english

  172. Nim said:

    show us the proof…

  173. Contra: Be said:

    @ Nept and all the rest of the french community

    this thing is going off-topic to whine further => http://etf2l.org/forum/off-topic/?recent=32778
    They’ve been cought cheating and they’ve been using those other accounts they got banned kthnxbbgl end of story you arent got them unbanned by spamming french on this and sec of all jealous of what no being french?? im happy enough not being from Wallonie while living in Belgium.

    and we got a person banned aswell you dont hear any ranger/UK whine about that…

  174. Captainhax: AwS - DA! said:

    On me dit dans mon oreillette que ca rage pas mal du coté des colorz :o(

  175. Typh0n: AUTOBOTS said:

    ben à mort et c’est justifié en fait!

  176. fabetroma said:

    I think keep going to ban every french players would be the right way to follow :)

  177. Nept said:

    Ok guys lets stop kidding a little..

    If admins tell you your mum find you in a dump, you woulda trust em? I mean, just accusing people without showin’ any proof, thats a real joke. Today, i lost one of my player because he played on his account from a cyber or at a friend’s house. Today two of the top french team are down cause admins ban without show us anything. And you ask us believe it ? Get serious and stop kidding us.

  178. Hydro-Dharma said:

    Just need the proof to be sure. No proof: no reason to follow the movement.
    Give us some link, url or other way to see theses proofs. We want to know the truth.

  179. Guardian said:

    I love admin answers. You ban players who didn’t have tf2 and say again ” we don’t ban without evidence ” .

    And another question, why am i ban please ? I never played with colorz in etf2l, just in pcw days ago. Is it forbidden ?

    Finally, Anakin spoke to me a week ago to know who is Rain, and who played on this account. He didn’t want to tell me why he needs those informations… if you can know when i played on the styfler account, maybe you can know what i said and whith other people i have spoken ?

  180. Captainhax: AwS - DA! said:

    # Typh0n: ColorZ said:

    March 23rd, 2009 at 12:03 am

    ben à mort et c’est justifié en fait!

    Le ban est justifié ? ;DDDDDDDDDD

  181. Nim said:

    “check the french flag” …. is the next week news!!!!!!!!

  182. Typh0n: AUTOBOTS said:

    c’est ça c’est ça!

  183. Ortho: frost grandpapa - bula. said:

    POLACY DO BOJU!!!

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

  184. Nim said:

    koko o sawatte anakin !!!!

  185. cook: FB said:

    If someone uses shared accounts with TF2 for cheating, breaking the rules or aimbots, then it goes to say that once they are banned, the shared accounts that aren’t being used for TF2, will be used for TF2 to get back on etf2l.

    Hence, asking why the accounts are banned even though TF2 hasn’t been played on them is silly.

  186. ouch said:

    So you don’t have TF2? And you got banned on ETF2L? And you start whining about it?
    Seriously: wtf?

    btw. i really would like to see some more guys get banned after reading some comments. stop cheating, stop insulting, stop whining. let there be peace :P

  187. Rynex: FAB - nubs said:

    Carnage. I don’t see how banning the names is all that bad, TF2 is a pretty cheap game so I suppose all those effected can just make a new account and play on that. Besides, after Season 5, they could just go back to account sharing with those nicks… can’t you just ban those accounts forever and ban those who used them until Season 5 is over?

  188. Typh0n: AUTOBOTS said:

    lol cook nobody ever cheated on these accounts i quoted=>

  189. Typh0n: AUTOBOTS said:

    they don’t even have tf2 LOL

  190. Hansa: .idk? said:

    Flo has been abusively banned. He never cheated or tried to use a cheat.

    I dont care about the rest.

  191. andhraya: .:PBP:. said:

    Don’t u understand guys?!! Allooooooooo

  192. cook: FB said:

    I said shared accounts not being used for TF2. Any form of shared account, cheating or not, could be used if it was not banned.

    By the way, I know Flo doesn’t cheat because he told me so.

  193. Nim said:

    flo is too worse to cheat ………

  194. Guardian said:

    “Hence, asking why the accounts are banned even though TF2 hasn’t been played on them is silly. ”

    cook, you are as intelligent as a door.

    TF2 could never been played on 2 accounts, because the game was never bought on those accounts.

    But please speak again you are a funny guy !!

  195. cook: FB said:

    OH, right, I remember. Once you have an account you can’t buy new games for it. Yes, that’s right, I’m silly.

    Forgive me.

  196. Hydro-Dharma said:




    >>>>> Don’t let that become a stereotype toward all Frenchs players <<<<<


  197. ChOun: iCon said:

    Next time we will not hesitate to introduce a record to the local police department of clermont ferrant

  198. Nim said:

    je plussoie!!!

  199. Typh0n: AUTOBOTS said:

    fact is that there’s still no tf2 on these accounts…

  200. ruffeeh said:

    MMMMMORARRDAMDRAMA!!!!1111

  201. Pomme said:

    Leave Flo Alone, he doesn’t cheat !

  202. BvD: flowerpower/ said:

    Thanks admins, did a great job. Let’s hope other cheaters are warned that all cheaters get caught!

  203. Stimpack: pck.` said:

    Anyway, flo is the only who i’m sure he is clean.
    Maybe can u give the demo to him.

  204. Peloch: PBP # said:

    Ouai grave choun j’en profite en meme tps pour deposer une plainte contre les mechant lama ki font rien ke membeter

  205. Obi: DA! said:

    Aequitas in ETF2L ? =D

  206. REDEMPTOR: DAKKA said:

    I love people here

    Admin say that guys cheat

    So people say good job admin, I don’t know this guys, never see his face never see him play but YES HE CHEAT YES YES THAT SURE ADMIN SAY IT stop suck plz.

  207. Nept said:

    200!

  208. Hydro-Dharma said:

    ROFL nept ^^

  209. fabetroma said:

    Nept Biatch !!!! XD

  210. ouch said:

    you got banned on etf2l even you don’t possess tf2?
    using an aimbot on minesweeper is a crime aswell! you got banned for good reasons.

  211. cook: FB said:

    Fact is that it COULD be used for it in the future, it is a shared account, and all of the shared accounts mentioned before were used for this rule breaking, why not these new ones if they haven’t been banned?

    Besides, why do you even care if 2 accounts without TF2 are banned in ETF2L. You’re trying to get attention away from the fact you’re a cheater imo. :O

  212. BvD: flowerpower/ said:

    Recently I have had a long conversation with one of the admins that focuses on cheating, he told alot about how they find cheaters, and how long they have been doing that. They make no mistakes.

    You’re just showing me you’ve been smacked in THA FACE cheaturr ^^

  213. Misurugi said:

    I would just like to say to some people (bash, from wotr, for example) not to generalize please..

    Please people, stop saying “gg FRANCE”, if one french is cheating, it doesn’t mean they all do, and according to some of you, we all do -.-

    Yeah there has been some account sharing but.. as someone already said, TF2 is not the only game on steam, you can share your account in order to let a friend test L4D, or something else.

    By the way, some people have been caught, some are cheating, some others are not, would be nice to ban if you have proof, and only in that case. Unfortunately, even if you did a good job with catching some cheaters, some are remaining =X

  214. Nim said:

    next target eXs ^^

  215. Jiin: zOo said:

    You are retard, right ?

    Admins ban steam accounts which dont have the game. Don’t you think there’s a problem ?

  216. Typh0n: AUTOBOTS said:

    lol make a rule DO NOT LEND YOUR ACCOUNT unless you get banned just in case…

  217. Misurugi said:

    For example (sorry for the double post), banning Guard (and I’m not saying this because he’s on my team) because of aimbot whereas he’s playing medic is.. funny.

    So please, would be nice admin, to take another look on the people you’ve banned, because i’m sure a lot of them are not cheating :)

  218. Flo: ColorZ said:

    Plz send me to cops and jail without any judgement

  219. fabetroma said:

    or .:PBP:. one

  220. Stimpack: pck.` said:

    Guard is ban for sharring ;)
    And no, we are not the next target, cause our player are clean.

  221. cook: FB said:

    Admins can go ban my other account with Peggle on it and I won’t give a fuck. Why? Because it has Peggle on it, not TF2.

    It’s just moaning for the sake of it, to distract attention away from the cheating aspect of this post.

    Also, if you’re truly on the journey of french enlightenment then read (READ, YES, READ, NOT JUMP OFF ON WILD CONCLUSIONS BECAUSE YOU THINK THE ADMINS ARE EVIL) my previous posts. This is the reason why they are banned.

  222. Xzar: puppeli said:

    “never thought ud need cheats to play low+ tf2…oh well they deserved it then”

    aahahaahha burn =DDDD

    but neways gj admins, get rid of the cheating scum

  223. Typh0n: AUTOBOTS said:

    so are we, so are we

  224. Guardian said:

    ” Fact is that it COULD be used for it in the future, it is a shared account, and all of the shared accounts mentioned before were used for this rule breaking, why not these new ones if they haven’t been banned?

    Besides, why do you even care if 2 accounts without TF2 are banned in ETF2L. You’re trying to get attention away from the fact you’re a cheater imo. :O ”

    edit : you are more retarded than a door. Oh yes, i was connected on another account, so it means that i can one day play on tf2 on this account, so i have to be ban for the next season. Why don’t ban me permanently ? Because maybe in 23 years, i could connect on this account or another (maybe yours ?) …

  225. Newbie said:

    I think if you banned every French player, those cheaters might actually own up and stop protesting innocence.

  226. Nim said:

    the doubt is here !!!!!!!

  227. Typh0n: AUTOBOTS said:

    ColorZ.Flo – using an aimbot in pcw\’s plz answer me whats the link between a pcw and esl (i don’t change the subject i’m just showing you’re incoherent)

  228. Misurugi said:

    BvD, how can you be so sure of this? How could you explain that a medic is using an aimbot? It makes no sense, really.

    “Not knowing what to do with such a massive attempt to evade the rules of etf2l we decided that all accounts which were used in this account sharing scam”

    See? They can’t be sure in that case, but they still ban them..

  229. Hansa: .idk? said:

    FREE TIBET

  230. gEEk!: Mc\\\'s said:

    LOOK I’M AN ATTENTION WHORE!

  231. Peloch: PBP # said:

    Stimpack les poils pubien ne s’achete pas, ça pousse avec le tps ^^ cache un peu mieu ta joi de pouvoir etre la meilleur team fr sans te forcer ^^ koi ke meme en te forçant ^^ ……

  232. Flo: ColorZ said:

    stop protesting innonence ?

    nice joke…

  233. cook: FB said:

    Okay, I’ll lay it out in simple steps for you.

    1). Putain le Baguette
    2). Gets banned from etf2l for cheating
    3). Switches to another steam account to evade ban
    4). Plays on without any consequences for cheating

    This is why multiple accounts are banned if they are all shared.

    Also, why do you care so much about these other accounts, you aren’t even trying to defend the banning of your normal accounts. They don’t even have TF2 on them. Unless you were intent on re-using them for etf2l(which would be evading your ban), then why would you care so much?

  234. gEEk!: Mc\\\'s said:

    @Newbie : considering that one of your players has been caught cheating, you’d better stfu ’bout french ppl, ty :)

  235. Jiin: zOo said:

    Admins can go ban my other account with Peggle on it and I won’t give a fuck. Why? Because it has Peggle on it, not TF2.

    And you don’t find any problem about that ?

  236. ouch said:

    you can’t headshot people with peggle.

  237. BvD: flowerpower/ said:

    Misurugi,

    ETF2L has evidence those accounts were linked and shared. To prevent those guys coming back with their other accounts, they ban them to add them to their database and watch ’em.

  238. obe: KnS | said:

    Guard and Origo FREE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  239. cook: FB said:

    I just face palmed so hard it caved my face in.

    I can’t believe you said that. Seriously… I’m done here. No need to argue anymore, you’ve just killed your arguments with an overdose of stupidity.

  240. wer: tfortress.no said:

    WHY THE FUCK DO U CARE IF U GOT BANNED IN A TF2 LEAGUE WHEN U DONT OWN TF2?
    must be a reason why u are raging about those accounts ^^

    gj admins

  241. Misurugi said:

    Sorry bout this, i’ll make a little post in french.

    Je suis deçu de voir à quel point certains d’autres team ne sont pas solidaire quoi. C’est l’effet quoi, rage? Dire “nos joueurs sont clean” alors que tu n’as aucune preuve comme quoi telle ou telle personne cheat, c’est petit mais bon..

    Btw, I misunderstood something, thought Guard was banned for cheating, nvm :)

    But I still don’t understand why they’re banned for this? Account sharing in order to get a merc? That looks like “You’re account sharing, so.. we THINK that you MIGHT be using account sharing for using merc” There are no proof of this.. well..

  242. Typh0n: AUTOBOTS said:

    very clever you re admin right? cause well in justification of a ban from a european league you can’t really say 1) PUTAIN LE BAGUETTE really that’s childish…

    Switches to another steam account to evade ban? who did that show me proofs? Have you any record of a player cheating either in pcw or even etf2l match?

    I care cause you banned accounts without any proofs which shows you are also able to ban people for cheating without it too.

  243. Flo: ColorZ said:

    i dont go on another account i never use cheat and i want public apologize of etf2l

    srly stop racism with french

  244. Nim said:

    Anakin on t’aimeeeeee “ou pas”!

  245. BvD: flowerpower/ said:

    Misurugi, READ before you puke shit out of your mouth into the comment!!

  246. Swifty: ξ(゜ヮ゜)ξ said:

    I can’t say i know for a fact that person x is cheating or not cheating, but i think that those like Flo, Origo and guardian (the ones alot of people are saying didn’t cheat) should be allowed to find out exactly what they did wrong where, when etc. Maybe only show them the demos where you saw them using the cheat or how you know that they are acc sharing etc. It should end the drama…

  247. Gobi: WSB? said:

    +1 swifty

  248. Jiin: zOo said:

    Thx swifty.

  249. Peloch: PBP # said:

    +1

  250. Hydro-Dharma said:

    +1 Swifty

  251. Misurugi said:

    And BvD, THINK before posting too :) Banning “in case of” is just …

  252. Nept said:

    Agree with Swifty.

  253. Nim said:

    <3 Swifty

  254. fabetroma said:

    OUCH near 240 posts to get a right one … Swifty Rulz

  255. slip: -Hf- said:

    LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!

  256. Nim said:

    Anakin tu viens a notre lan qu’on rigole ^^

  257. Guardian said:

    ” Okay, I’ll lay it out in simple steps for you.

    1). Putain le Baguette
    2). Gets banned from etf2l for cheating
    3). Switches to another steam account to evade ban
    4). Plays on without any consequences for cheating

    This is why multiple accounts are banned if they are all shared.

    Also, why do you care so much about these other accounts, you aren’t even trying to defend the banning of your normal accounts. They don’t even have TF2 on them. Unless you were intent on re-using them for etf2l(which would be evading your ban), then why would you care so much? ”

    1) Don’t rage because you are retarded
    2) I’m not ban from etf2l for cheating
    3) I switch account to play at Zombie Master LOLOLOL
    4) Yes i used speedhack on many zombie.. blame me for that

    So, i am ban on my normal account, because of playing in another account. First, i want to know which rules are saying that : if you suscribe on etf2l, you don’t have to play on another account for another games, because if this accounts cheat 23 years later, you will be ban for an entire season. I never shared my personnal account to play on tf2, and i’m ban ? admins, i can’t accept that.

  258. BvD: flowerpower/ said:

    Misurugi, one more time… ETF2L has proof of those accounts banned until s5 is over being linked/shared with the actual hackers. They’re not going to give away the evidence cause people find out their way of doing this. To prevent these hackers switching over to the linked accounts to prevent getting caught, and cheating again, they banned them. Sounds very reasonable.

  259. Maman said:

    +1 NIM ^^ :)

  260. Winneh: [s7] said:

    Ofc everyone involved can pm an admin and will get his explanation.

    And again, could ppl PLEASE start reading the full news text – which account got banned/banished for what reason, thanks !

  261. wer: tfortress.no said:

    Guardian u just adminted u had cheats on ur computer

    get out of etf2l

  262. Nim said:

    wer go out! pathetic

  263. BvD: flowerpower/ said:

    +100 Winneh

  264. Nept said:

    Why guard / origo are ban for multi account ?

    Why Anakin isnt ban cuz he got more than one account ? Why anakin isnt banned cause he used to get banned on CS?

    I cant show you proof, but i got the proof.

  265. Typh0n: AUTOBOTS said:

    i can up my chat with [FB] Jonny and i can tell you he gave me no explanation at all

    http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OPBWPQI4 <= if you wanna check

  266. Origo said:

    Wer -> seek brain please ;)

  267. ouch said:

    guard just admit using cheats in zombiemasters. make it a 2 year ban!

  268. fabetroma said:

    OMAGAD can’t see that was ironical saying he cheated …?get brain next

  269. cook: FB said:

    I’m banned on all my accounts for breaking the rules via a account sharing scam that uses several accounts. What a fucking surprise.

    Is that what you’re saying?

    I ignored the bit where you’re a time traveler. :(

  270. Guardian said:

    ” Guardian u just adminted u had cheats on ur computer
    get out of etf2l ”

    Oh yes, wer you just proof that you are retarded as hell. Ironish. Maybe with this you can understand. I like people like you !

  271. Serialloser: Hys. - NoraJ. said:

    sarcasm doesn’t work on internet, sad but true.

    And banning someone for sharing an account is just retarted, they can just buy another one dumbfuck

  272. Hydro-Dharma said:

    @ Admin:

    You want to stop flames on this news?? give us Url or link of vids and proofs, and we will stop when we check it.

  273. Nim said:

    just one thing cook “go die”!

  274. codcrille: Fresh. said:

    L M F A O :D

  275. kerberos: XC² said:

    Free Origo and Guardian !!

    Sharing is not a cheat ! That have no sense ! Okay for those whose use aimbot, forbidden scritps.. if it’s true..

    And next, stop generalise “French are cheaters !” because some one use cheats.. other bad players in other country cheat too..

  276. vosen: rda - Paracoccidioido said:

    Aren’t we little inconsistent etf2l?
    http://etf2l.org/forum/general/topic-906/page-1/

  277. Rex: vR| said:

    Well done admins, appreciate the intensive work!!

    PS: demoman with fast shoot script = stupid…

  278. wer: tfortress.no said:

    lol cry

  279. cook: FB said:

    VIVA LA RESISTANCE, FREE ORIGO AND GUARDIAN.

    Whoops.

  280. andhraya: .:PBP:. said:

    what a masquerade…

  281. BvD: flowerpower/ said:

    Welsh > French

  282. Wlv: RaWr :: said:

    What winneh said and read the payard thread for reasons on not giving out the evidence

  283. andhraya: .:PBP:. said:

    that’s not exactly the same war….

  284. kerberos: XC² said:

    I am sorry Origo… i have to stop play with you.. i am afraid to be banned..

    :p

  285. ouch said:

    to all cheaters:
    give us proof. we want to judge. show us your demos.

  286. Nim said:

    no proof = gay!

  287. RaDiKaL said:

    gg Flo hahahahaha

  288. Hydro-Dharma said:

    Anakin, come to my house and give to my dog the day of is life.

  289. Flo: ColorZ said:

    i take this like a compliment i’m not cheater and i’m ban for this

    best joke ever

    Admin plz send me proof…

  290. ^Mariano said:

    vary good job admins :D gz :)

  291. tenshox said:

    I predict that there will be flying croissants soon.
    Good job admins.

  292. pz: Rw. said:

    NIXAMER AnAkIn

  293. Gaarulf: UP| said:

    OMG So fucking much drama.
    1. If the accounts banned didn’t have TF2, why all the fucking whine??

  294. BvD: flowerpower/ said:

    soon? soon? Whole site is overloaded with croissants and baquettes already xD

  295. fabetroma said:

    Can you bring someones tomorrow for breakfast? can’t start a day without a baguette and croissants

  296. BvD: flowerpower/ said:

    4 slices of bread, glass of milk and 50 pushups start a day like no other for me

  297. PiPo: clickN` - -Hf- said:

    This News Is the biggest joke since the arrival of the SANDWISH (or Sandman I’m not sure).

  298. Foxtreme said:

    Stop winning ffs.

    ETF2L doesn’t ban people at random, nor because they are french. They ban people because these people CHEAT, and the admins have proofs of it, if not why they would ban them?
    And of course, if you share accounts, how do we know whether you are the one who’s playing in an official match?

    Good joob admins. Thanks for keeping this league fair.

  299. kerberos: XC² said:

    I prefer one coffee, a glass of orange juice, 10 min TF2 .. but only 35 pushups for me :)

  300. Serialloser: Hys. - NoraJ. said:

    No ETF2L is banning some players because Anakin is on a crusade against some people he has a grudge against.

    That’s all

  301. Mole: DCSB - Hey dats! said:

    French players doing the french community proud in these comments I see! Im particularly amused at:

    Punish their account for cheating = no disagreement
    Punish them for account sharing = no disagreement
    Punish an account that doesnt own TF2 from playing ETF2L League games = OH SHIT NO YOU STEPPED OVER THE LINE NOW ANAKIN YOU MADE THE WRONG ADMIN DECISION THERE!

    Knowing the work that went into this and the information checked and double checked I’d have to say, great job to those real admins that did all the leg work for this!

    The French – proving stereotypes right one assumption at a time! ^_^

  302. BvD: flowerpower/ said:

    +1 foxtreme thnx for reminding me what I’ve been trying to tell them guys for the past hour =DD

  303. Mole: DCSB - Hey dats! said:

    Oh also, the irony of the source of some of the information in comparison to alot of the comments here is hilarious!

  304. Gobi: WSB? said:

    Mole…. c’est l’adjectif qualifiant ta bite ?

  305. Obi: DA! said:

    Pwned

  306. wer: tfortress.no said:

    innocent people usualy try to cooperate

  307. Gobi: WSB? said:

    Are you saying that admins are not innocent ?

  308. Nept said:

    Who Knows!

  309. Nept said:

    300!

  310. wer: tfortress.no said:

    i think u just made a funny

  311. neO: L51 said:

    “Mole: .:DCSB:. said:
    The French – proving stereotypes right one assumption at a time! ^_^”

    Stupid people – proving racism isn’t dead in 2009 ^_^

  312. r3qu13m: L51 said:

    The ones who claim to be innocent have the right to defend themselves and not being judged directly because of the decision of few people without some public evidence.
    I think there are people who cheat (and not only in france!!!) but some of this accusations seem ridiculous and if someone wants to contest, let them do it, it is their right. The proof may be communicated to them in private and if it seems wrong they can always publish it on the forums.

  313. fabetroma said:

    anakin : je vais donner un grand coup de balai dans l’etf2l :)

  314. Peloch: PBP # said:

    Ca vient d’ou cette phrase fab ?????

    moi je dit: http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/gi+joe+generique/video/x36cm_gi-joe-generique-fr_family

  315. Pax: ColorZ - Rw. said:

    “Die Welle”

  316. Agron: Relic said:

    I’m being funny, +frag me!

  317. Orb: is Addicted said:

    ale le bleu !

  318. JamesBong: Lapinou Team said:

    Ok, obviously there seems to be a story going on involving Anakin and PBP.. Someone mind explaining ?
    Also recruiting a team to cover my ass for when I start using cheats. Preferably french.
    (p.s. : If the robbers that just stole my PC and my 42″ TV read this please return ASAP)

  319. Misurugi said:

    From what I know James:

    Many PBP are talking/wondering about this because they’re usually playing (we’re doing many mix per day) with Flo, Origo, Typhon and Guardian (who’s PBP now), that’s all ^^.

  320. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    If someone has cheated in a competitive match, they should be banned.

    If someone has merced for another team using a different account during a ‘League’ match, they should be banned.

    If someone has cheated on a public server / different game / many many years ago, and can provide proof that they have not cheated in recent competitive TF2 games (and future games on request) then they should not be banned as it doesn’t effect in any way, shape or form the competitive nature of ETF2L tournaments.

    The rules are in place to provide a fair and competitive nature for all those wishing to participate in the tournements. If people are not disrupting that, then there is no reason to ban them. If you suspect someone of cheating, or if they have been caught cheating in a non competitive environment, then request that they proove their innocence in previous league or other competitive matches, and request that they are able to provide proof of future matches. This could be done with a 1/2/3 strike system where if a player is unable to provide proof for a randomly requested game, they will be banned for X amount of time.

    There are many reasons for people to download and install cheats (movies, curiosity, fun??), but unless they are effecting the play of the competitive matches we are all here to play in, then it shouldn’t concern us one bit…

  321. nubrevolution said:

    Unfortunately guys, the admins are working for the good of the community, and for the good of THEIR competition. I personally welcome their attempts to keep their league clean.

    As for the flaming, what’s the point? Will it make them change their minds? No. In fact it would further strengthen their desire to rid their leagues of such attitudes/egos.

    And do us a favour, leave off with the racism remarks? They’re banning you due to evidence of you cheating/using multiple accounts, NOT because you’re French. I’d like to point out now, I’m half German, half British: does this make me eligible to be banned? No, I think not. It’s irrelevant. The only thing that IS relevant is that the admins work in our best interests. So get off their backs, and just accept that no matter what you say, things won’t change.

  322. Typh0n: AUTOBOTS said:

    +1

  323. Flo: ColorZ said:

    some people injure french people in this news.

    personally i know i’m not cheater. Etf2l are just unfair in this case.

    So what ? i can just close my mouth and undergo this situation thanks etf2l and thanks community to judge me like that

  324. andhraya: .:PBP:. said:

    That’s just unfair for some of them… It’s sad

  325. Origo said:

    it’s just shame …

  326. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    The reason why i’m putting these points across is because our team (k1ck) always try to compete fairly in our competitive matches. We play for the competition. Competing is fun!

    As soon as it was found out that payard was cheating in competitive matches, he was removed from the team. We don’t accept players cheating when we are trying to have a fair and even game against other teams in this community.

    Yes it does happen, sometimes a member of your team turns out to be a cheater, and it shouldn’t reflect on the rest of the team, it’s not like we knew about it, but as soon as we found out, he was removed, just as any other clan would do.

    So then we continued to play fair matches against teams, moving on from that incident, only to find that someone has dug up a hole about one of our members, or more specifically, our leader, messing around with a cheat on a public server. He won’t be removed from the team… why? Because this has NO/0/None/Nada effect on how we play PCWs/League matches/Competitive matches. We still play fair, we play with no cheats and if this is found out to be any different, then that member would be removed (or in Helliana’s case, at least I would leave the team, and probably the rest of the members).

    Of course I’m not saying using any form of cheat is a good thing, and sure it sucks to have found out 1 of my clan members has even used one… mainly because if he gets VAC banned in a few months time because of it, we are left without a leader or player. But this doesn’t mean we still won’t be playing as a team just like we are now. We don’t play against teams with cheats, and I’m sure any of us are more than willing to demonstrate that in any way we can (FP/STV demos, Anticheat etc…) whereever possible.

    The problem with this is, ETF2L seems to have taken the role as TF2 community police on matters that don’t effect how things are acted out in what they are actually running. It’s a bit like someone getting sent off in a game of football and then being suspended for 2 matches in their Tennis league. It’s rediculous.

    This isn’t a flame, more of an opinion and justification. We all appreciate the work that goes into running a league, especially a league of this size and quality, and we all understand the amount of shit admins get for doing their voluntary work in order to help the competitive community, especially on decisions reguarding rules. Someone has to do it, or we wouldn’t be able to be here bitching about it today.

    I just don’t agree with some of the decisions being made here.

  327. Mick- said:

    Lol , nan mais de toute facon , je vois pas l’interet d’aller utiliser un aimbot en serv Public , le ban est merité , sincerement et je vais ban ces comptes de l ukESA + ED aussi , quand aux sharing de compte , ca merite ptetre pas un ban d’un an mais bon tout le monde sait que chaque compte est relié a une steam_id et qu on doit pas en changer..

  328. Typh0n: AUTOBOTS said:

    Le truc c’est que ces comptes n’ont pas joué un seul match en fait mick

  329. JohnnyJackal: .:ne:. - tfortress.no said:

    If anything ColorZ should be banned based on the immature comments made in this thread.

    Think hard! Do you think this is just an “Anakin-crusade” The Etf2l is not run by one admin. Clearly this is not a decision made by one guy holding a grudge against you!

    I know your English has proven to be lousy, but look up the word community please….

  330. Typh0n: AUTOBOTS said:

    comon anakin was already asking about rain’s account one week ago, and how would you react if your team got banned first because your sniper is told to be cheater while he ends up last of his team as sniper in a match, then because you have lent your accounts to some friends to play ffa or whatever but you never used one of these account in one official match…

    How would you react guy?;) i think we did not really flame here we just asked for answers and evidences which we never got.

    Concerning Anakin’s crusade the whole french community knows he’s behind it and when you say his name in a conversation with an admin he pretends not to even know who he is. lol

  331. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    Mick, UKESA rules state that if a player is suspected of cheating in a UKESA match, and evidence is provided, they will be banned. Publics are not related to ukesa.

    I’ll be having a word with them about it in the next few days.

  332. andhraya: .:PBP:. said:

    Let me think, I’m not allowed to play with another computer where steam is already install?

  333. ChOun: iCon said:

    There is the same comportement as the government would face the hackers ( peer to peer ) . It takes someone at random and they impose a heavy penalty to set an example to all.

    Here it is the same, it took the team is put in question over to cheat, it was demonstrated that there was an exchange account (even if it was not on the league) and is heavily penalized ( when we have more we impose several penalties) to set an example to all.

    As on pirate all very well know that the team colorz is not alone in using this kind of practice, but hey, it was an example!

    I’m not sure this is the best way to prevent the community.

    it’s your choice! : s

    As for Flo, it’s just stupid: (

  334. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    If you ask most people if they think any of the current k1ck cheat in any of our matches, most people would say no. Even if they are unsure, they can ask for proof of previous matches or future ones.

    All this ban is doing is eliminating some of the legit competition from the league based on a mess around on a public. It’s dumb.

  335. Typh0n: AUTOBOTS said:

    same here ArX same here

  336. Misurugi said:

    AcidReniX, you said everything I wanted to say :)

    Public serv =/= ETF2L / ED / WirePlay / Whateveryouwant, that’s all.

  337. Apom: BEC said:

    Acid, I think your Tennis/Football comparison is inadequate. That would be more like reporting cheat bans from CS to TF2, and we know that it doesn’t happen. The good comparison in this case is: as a cyclist, you get caught using steroids on the (Italian) Giro, then you also get banned from the (French) Tour de France. You get caught cheating on a public server and/or another league, then you also get banned from ETF2L. I find it extremely disturbing that you would argue the opposite without realizing you’re playing devil’s advocate here.

    ColorZ and PBP are another story: while using a an aimbot is cheating no matter the circumstances, account sharing does not constitute cheating in itself (only sharing your account during a league match is actual cheating). For this reason, I disagree with the massive [i]a priori[/i] ban on a dozen of players, and would tend to agree with an opinion expressed before that it’s all about making some noise and publicity to show how badass the ETF2L admins are. However, it can’t be denied that the complete immaturity shown in this very forum by a large part of the banned players is reason enough to ban them…

  338. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    Also. How does anyone know that demo is actually of Helliana? There is no supporting screenshot, you can’t find out the steam ID from demos (afaik) and there is no server listed.

    An admin of the website has looked at the demo, seen a hacker and said ‘Okay! Banned!’ but I mean… it could just be someone who has renamed themselves to Helliana and started cheating.

    Please tell me i’m mistaken and the admins haven’t gone and banned a player based off a demo with no supporting ID screenshot or serverinfo / logs. Please tell me they haven’t been that dumb. Arx needs correction please!

  339. wolfyer: XC² said:

    salut a tous

    je ne comprend pas pourquoi certains triches ,cela est débiles et c’est un manque de maturité de votre part…..soyez loyal et honnête fassent a vos adversaire!
    donc pour ceux qui cheate (aimbot et les autres truc pour la triche)en ffa mais pas en ligue! ban a vie !car il ne respect pas leur adversaire et cela est mérité et honte sur ce type de joueur
    idem pour ceux qui le font qu’en ligue!
    pour ceux qui ont prete leur compte a un amis et que,celui-ci a utilisé un cheat;il est normal que ce compte soit ban!parce qu’il en va de la responsabilité de son propriétaire!(je ne prête pas ma voiture a quelqu’un qui n’a pas le permis(même si je ne la prête seulement qu’a deux personne,ils ont le permis!lol))
    pour les utilisations des autres comptes!les règles son clair et je ne vois pas pourquoi sa rechigne…n’importe quel PC qui a TF2 d’installé ,peut accéder a son compte et il est quelque peu louche d’utiliser un autre compte,sauf bien sur si vous avez la preuve par le biais de steam ou valve que celui-ci a était hack
    maintenant,je dois l’avouer!il manque un investissement sérieux des admins de ligues ….vous ne voulez pas des script OK mais contacter valve pour qu’il participe a faire évoluer les perso(ex:le script de roquette jump validé est autorise par les ligues,n’est toujours pas dans la base du jeu!pourquoi?)….les divisions c pareille!a chaque saison les teams change mais ne recommence pas en division de fin de classement!why? faites privilégié les teams qui ont choisi la régularité et non les résultats(et cela dit en passant,cela ne leur serviras a rien de cheaté puisqu’il auront en face d’eux de jeune team qui n’ont trouvé leur teamplay ou qui ont un faible rendement)….vous toléré les merc mais la encore il y a un risque!les teams devrait avoir leurs joueurs et tan pis si ils ne sont que cinq ou moins….bref,je peux comprendre que vous ne dévoilez pas,au grand jour,comment vous l’ai avez attrapé….mais qui peut confirmé votre travail recherche contre les cheaters…(ex:la lutte contre le dopage!les test en applications ont étaient approuvé!donc viable contre toute assignations en justice)

    Maintenant pour tous ceux qui parle des FRANÇAIS ,je suis un et je ne triche pas ,derrière mon passé de 11 ans en line et de teamplay et du haut de mes 37 ans,je n’approuve pas vos commentaire racial et juvénile ….et lieux de vous cacher derrière un pseudo,faites vos propos en y mettant votre véritable identité que l’on puisse vous poursuivre pour diffamations…et prenez vos responsabilité(comme des adultes et non comme certains gamins en sevrage)…n’oubliais pas que votre liberté de parole s’arrete ou commence celle des autres, donc ne leur porté pas atteinte!car nous somme tous differents…

    En ce qui concerne Flo,je suis d’accord!si il cheat alors moi aussi parce qu’il en mange de mes roquettes! Origo!je ne le pense pas n’ont plus! ET GUARDIAN si ont parle du meme GUARD des ex-mirage ,c’est impossible!ou alors son cheat c’est d’en prendre plein la gueule!
    pour le reste je n’ai pas joué avec eux donc je m’abstiendrais de toute affirmation ou allégations a leur en-contre !

    Merci de votre écoute pour mes propos et votre diligence pour ne pas prendre tous au premier degré,mais seulement pour mon avis personnelle!

  340. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    Apom, I know my example wasn’t perfect, but neither is yours. Taking steroids would have effects on a competitive race even if you took them for recreational purposes. Cheating in a tf2 public would have no effect on a competitive match at all. People should understand what I meant though.

    I’ve explained why I am arguing the case several times. We play fair competitive matches and nothing has changed. This is a league for competitive matches, not fair public play. That’s the server owners territory. The admins of this league should be there to ensure fairplay throughout the league matches being played and while a cheater on a public (once, twice or all the time) is a threat to fair competitive play, the opportunity should be given to proove they are abiding by the rules of the league (demos of matches, stv, anticheats). Not an outright ban as you don’t know that they are unlevelling the playing field.

  341. Newbie said:

    The English TL;DR from my limited French is.

    Congrats Admins. Why let these players merc in such a high team anyway?

    If I’m reading correctly, Flow and Guardian he believes to not be cheating.

    Oh and he said not all French cheat too, as he’s 37 and French and hasn’t ever used a chet in 11 years.

    Hopefully that’s accurate, helps the non-french speakers and isn’t so bloody long.

  342. ChOun: iCon said:

    Stop confusion plz,

    Flo is suspecting for cheat but i don’t, it’s an great and fairplay player with some skill on sniper.

    Guardian account isn’t used for an official match because Guardian isn’t in all line up of all ligue !

    Guardian is just à friend, he have play with us only 2 pcw’s. ( recently after pomme is kick of the team for another reasons )

    Lot of accounts are a joke ( tf2 not in account, account dead 2 years ago, account of ffa player ( friend of me ) ).

    I repeat, I really feel that we serve as an example for the community ! ( for account sharing ).

    But unfortunately that is not me who makes the decisions.

    STOP BLAME FLO !,
    there is nothing worse than being ban for cheat as it isn’t true.

    And speak english wolfyer !

  343. Apom: BEC said:

    ArX: agreed on the seroids, let’s say blood transfusions then (they only work for a few hours/days). Cyclists who get caught doing these even in one single race still get banned from all competitions. It’s not about the “fair playing field”, but rather the fact that a serious sports (or e-sports) league can not be made aware of a person cheating in another league (or public server, there’s no difference really) and just pretend that nothing happened.

    Also, you can rest assured that the ban was made based on a SteamID checked through server logs (or through status, are there is a strong admin presence on the server where he was caught). Actually, you can’t ban people based on their name, you need their SteamID for that, so there’s a 0% chance that it’s a mistake.

    I’m fairly certain that K1ck’s backing of Heliana in this case is going to give your team a really bad image, and more or less definitely associate you with cheating. I’m not in your place, but I really think you shouldn’t take that direction, especially one week afer Payard.

  344. TeoK: dSp\' said:

    Anakins secret agenda is to get all french players banned to secure his spot in the national team.
    15 gone, 75 to go !
    Anyway, well played heliana, what a great idea to cheat on a public server.

  345. wolfyer: XC² said:

    sorry i don’t speak english but …j’arrive a le comprendre un peu,cela n’a never be a problem !the cultural difference is a European law, if this is a problem then do the leagues in different languages
    I do not like idiots, I am not racist … there are French, which allowed us represents a etlf2 … is for those who do not understand the French! install fox lingo or traduku. .. it is still a shame to see that there are people who do not attempt to be autonomous while there are tools disposition.certes them if I do not speak English may be considered gap, it goes without saying that this applies in the other direction…
    thank you

  346. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    I think we dissagree on relating cheating on publics to cheating in a competitive match. But then again, that’s what the whole debate has been about anyway.

    The ban was added to the website via the website, it wasn’t an automated ban when banned from console. Since a demo has been submitted as proof, it would mean it was probably submitted after the event, meaning an admin wouldn’t have been present during the actual cheating (otherwise he would have just added the ban).

    There appears to be nothing to stop a person from hacking on a public with a changed name, getting someone else to record a demo and then submitting it through the web application.

    Unless it is one of their servers or a screenshot of steam ID’s is present (it’s not in the .rar file) then there is insufficient evidence to support the claim.

  347. wolfyer: XC² said:

    salvation to all

    I do not understand why some cheats, this is stupid and it is a lack of maturity from you … .. be honest and be loyal to your opponent!
    So for those who cheat (Aimbot and other stuff for cheating) in ffa but not in league! ban a life because it does not respect their opponent and this is deserved, and shame on this type of player
    ditto for those who are in league!
    for those who have prepared their accounts and that a friend, he used a cheat and it is normal that the account be ban! because it is the responsibility of its owner! (I do not take my car someone who is not allowed (even if I had only prepared the two people, they are allowed! lol))
    for uses of other accounts! rules clear and I do not see why his reluctant … any PC that has TF2 installed, can access his account and it is somewhat suspicious to use another account, except of course if you have proof through steam or valve that it was a hack
    Now, I must admit! it lacks a serious investment Admins leagues …. you do not want script OK but contact valve to attend a personal change (eg the rocket jump script is validated permits by the league, is still not in the database of the game! why) …. c such divisions, with each season the teams change, but will not begin dividing end ranking! why? made privileged the teams who chose the regularity and not the results (and incidentally, it does serve a cheat because nothing will be in front of them a young team who have found their teamplay or have low performance) …. you tolerated the merc, but still there is a risk! teams should have their players and tan worse if they are only five or less …. in short, I can understand that you do not tell the general days, how have you’ve caught …. but who can confirm your job search against the cheaters … (eg the fight against doping! the test applications were approved! therefore viable against any subpoenas in court)

    Now for those who speak French, I am one and I do not cheat behind my past 11 years in line and teamplay and the top of my 37 years, I do not comment your race and juvenile …. And places to hide behind a nickname, make your words by putting your true identity that we can sue for defamation … and take your responsibility (as an adult and not some kids in withdrawal) … did not forget that your Freedom of speech stops or starts the other, so do not infringe! because we are all different …

    Regarding Flo, I agree! Cheat if it then too because he is eating my rocket! Origo! I do not think so no longer! AND GUARDIAN if were talking about the same ex-GUARD mirage, it’s impossible! His or cheat is to take the full mouth!
    for the rest I have not played with them so I would abstain from any statement or allegations against them-!

    Thank you for listening to my words and your diligence in not taking all the first degree, but only for my personal opinion!

  348. Puppets the Phantom Ranger said:

    i cant read the thousands of lines so i broke up at the half and gonna tell you this anyway:
    1. the power rangers are not jealous but were not fucking retardet and we trust the admins
    2. Sensei is English and not french
    3. Fragga your still a noob ;) (did you record the double air on me yet? :P )
    4. Id like to apologize and i think its in the name of all power rangers (well except sensei but i believe hes kicked now anyway) that cheating is not the way to play this game
    5. if you cheat on a public you show that you still have the possibility to cheat in a pcw

  349. Contra: Be said:

    +1 Puppets

  350. Madness. said:

    in a years time etf2l will have 10 players and they will be the admin’s im sure that not all of these people were cheating?

  351. babour0 said:

    This is french art !
    by Anakin

  352. Payard: mLm said:

    mouhahaha so funny xD . You only think there are cheaters only in France because anakin is spending his time watching french people.
    But if all admins watch all countries, there we’ll be so much people banned.

    Anakin , btw ban yourself as well ;)

  353. REDEMPTOR: DAKKA said:

    Flo isn’t cheating.

    How many admin have judge Flo ? how ?

    And the community? They can judge us ?

    Or maybe your evidence is fake and you fear to be blame if you say false ?

    I want that flo have a judgment by another guys. Just to see if they say the same. That sound fair no ?

  354. Xqntor said:

    Why not talking with targeted people and explain them what they have done BEFORE posting a public news @ 22.30 in front of all the european community ?

  355. REDEMPTOR: DAKKA said:

    +1

  356. Hydro-Dharma said:

    Cos,like princess bride, at midnight all proofs turn to pumpkins…

    Seriously, i’m in accordance with Xqntor. The first thing U must done was to inform the targeted people , and only after that post a news if theses persons confirm they are cheating, (and if not, continuing investigations before posting).

  357. nophin: :id: said:

    almost all cheaters are french now theres a surprise…

  358. b_noit said:

    there are so many cheaters in Israel too ;) Keep an eye on them Admin , thx :)

  359. toasty.: PHX said:

    Wow thats quite a lot of people! :0

    What’s a trigger bot btw? You aim and it decides when to fire or some thing?

  360. Neaera: EC! said:

    Great Job admins!
    Even if its sad to read that there are so many players who are cheating :/
    And its even more sad to read all the flaming. That gives my the feeling there are many people afraid to get known as cheaters too. I just remeber all the flaming about the decision to ban payard. After 100 Comments Payard said he was a cheater.

    I trust the admins and i believe they havent made this decision in some minutes. This was well proved and ETF2L dont ban without a reason.

    And i think that cheating on an public server is the most lolling thing ever! What a great sign to all the other players who are interested to start competitive playing maybe. you play in an official league and need cheats to own on an public?

    Greetz Nea

  361. eoN^ said:

    In every game I have seen from 1.6 to CoD4 cheating has not been tolerated and a one year ban is actually VERY, VERY lenient, most servers / leagues will insta-perma ban anyone using any cheats.

    We trust the admins to do their job so let them, if its a wrong decision prove it yourself, they shouldn’t have to prove it to you. In my opinion the admins should post a little bit of evidence but I understand why they don’t and i agree.

    Its a sad day for TF2 as a whole and hopefully all these people who are cheating will be banned quickly.

    What grabbed my attention most was the fact someone was punished for using a fast-fire script, all i can say is about time.

  362. Norris said:

    @toasty: idk what his triggerbot did. but we had trigger bots in ‘tfc’ before. used to be quite handy for demomans. *cough* autodet *cough*

  363. frooker said:

    “Also recruiting a team to cover my ass for when I start using cheats. Preferably french.”
    gg ;D

  364. REDEMPTOR: DAKKA said:

    neaera eon, and when your kicking and not cheating/sharing account HOW DO YOU FEEL IT MOFO???

    I accepte totally to be banned if I/we were cheating, but there it’s the other case.
    Colorz are just victime, you judge like american, the good must die because someone have make truth/fake thing on us.

  365. Flo: ColorZ said:

    “After 100 Comments Payard said he was a cheater.”

    lol you can wait longtime i think.

    For you i repeat again, im not cheater. i will never use cheat and my conscience is totaly clean with that

  366. Nept said:

    I understand, now, how dictator has been chosen by a nation. With so much racist without any sort of brain.

    -Flo never used to hack, nothing prove he used to, just some crybabies cuz he rapped a full team as sniper.

    -Guard and Origo used to share account (right) on zombie master (or something like that ) MORE THAN ONE YEAR AGO.

    Now, guys, ill ask you something simple ( i bet you will be able to, dont worry ) just without flo/origo/guard name and add your and ur’s friends name in that.

    So please people, less ‘blowing admins” and more “think about it”.

  367. Nept said:

    without-> withdraw sry.

  368. Hydro-Dharma said:

    Imagine, you looking quietly the news on the television and suddenly U see that you’ve become the public ennemy n°1… but you never doing bad things in your entire life.
    How do you feel that? How your neighbors and friends will watching you after that? You can try to justify yourself to them, but most of them never will watching you again like before.
    Now imagine that suffered some of these players who have never cheat.

    @ anakin: Les coups de putes finissent toujours par se payer un jour ou l’autre et les sales coups ont toujours un prix.
    (Treachery is always punished at one time or another and the dirty tricks to get some things still have a cost).

  369. Iller: tGa said:

    Good job admins !

    But I can only agree with some other people here : Stop blaming the entire France for this.
    They are of course not all cheaters just because a few of them are.

    I hope the admins continue their good work. Im afraid the there are a lot of cheaters out there just waiting to be discovered..

  370. sul.: FsA said:

    I’m a litte curios about this triggerbot – sensei’s aiming as a scout was very sick, but I thought of him as a ‘clean’ player. The ‘triggerbot’ would be an explanation for his aiming (if it really works this way), if it has nothing to do with it, I wonder why such a good player would use cheats (for sticky bombs or whatever).

    Account-Sharing although is a quite difficult topic to handle for the admins. Imo for the most affected players/acc’s the punishment “banned until season 5” is ok, and for the other ones I think the admins have good reasons for banning ’em for a year.

  371. Braska said:

    Hihi, je vois venir les insultes/provoc’/… faciles à chaque match contre une équipe étrangère maintenant.

    GG FRANCE.

  372. Payard: mLm said:

    “After 100 Comments Payard said he was a cheater.” lololol, after 100 comments cause i couldn’t post before ;)

    Then, admins u should only ban me, now that’s just a fucking joke

  373. Wlv: RaWr :: said:

    We have significant evidence that flo is cheating, we wouldn’t have banned him otherwise. To make out we ban for the lols is just ridiculas and I can assure you that you won’t get any decent response from an admin when using those accusations.

    Someone mentioned sensei – again the evidence was 100% clear cut, even his teamates pm’d us.

    I’ll say it one last time – we do not, under any circumstance, ban players without evidence that it’s. A) their account and B) several instances of them using the cheat in question.

    Arx – thanks for the constructive comments, I’ll respond when I Finnish work

  374. tapley: TEZC - TEZC said:

    Anyone whos stupid enough to use an Aimbot on a public server is stupid enough to get banned tbh, End of story. Test it on a passworded server you’re still running the risk.
    I dont know about this account sharing buisness but ill trust the admins judgement as they all clever guys.
    As for the the other “cheaters” see the payard incident everyone was like “LOL HE DOSNT HACK ADMIN SHOW ME PROOF LOLZ U IS RETARDED HITLER NO PROOF GAYZ”
    And the admins were prooved correct there so i’d trust them in this instance as well.
    But inded the account sharing thing make need to be reviewed unless they’ve got time stamps of when which guy logged in as the other etc.

  375. Flo: ColorZ said:

    “significant evidence”… sorry but i cant believe you.

    I’m sure im not cheater.

    You have anything on me or admin are dreamed.

  376. Flo: ColorZ said:

    have*

  377. paixhaine: H! said:

    Shouldn’t you english work Wlv ? :>

  378. Norris said:

    @Wolvy, need to have a word with you regarding account sharing. Any chance on a short irc talk tonight?

  379. Payard: mLm said:

    Heliana: payard the fucking cheater =(

    Guardian: I remember when payard said to me that he wants to become a tf2 star.
    Well done mate, you make the first etf2l page ! Wooot ! Champagne, tac tac bim bim !

    Champagne again!! ;p

  380. paixhaine: H! said:

    Stop surfing Payard, go back to work :p

  381. REDEMPTOR: DAKKA said:

    So Flo have just to be banned and can defend his self, what a good democracy.

    Wlv did you really think we will cry like that if flo have really cheat ?

    There is more than 350 comment, you don’t think that you should re-open the file and verify your source ?

    Guys you can’t believe how many noobs have make hazardous frag on public server.
    Then you think omg cheat? but no it’s only a small (and lucky) very good time where the player are in “trance”. I think you got a vidz like that (cause I know as he don’t cheat you can’t have a cheat video)

    You are based on how many minute/hour ? how many frags ? more than 100 hundred frag ? and more that 1 hour of video ?

    Second point why if we are trying to prove you that flo didn’t cheat, why don’t defend pomme too ?

    Did you inderstand know ? that we are trying to tell you the truth?

  382. Flo: ColorZ said:

    +1

    i am the one and only victim :(

  383. Payard: mLm said:

    Stop surfing Payard, go back to work :p

    héhéhé, i know but that’s so funny.

    @Admins: i tried several cheats, maybe u can send me the evidence, and i ‘ll confirm or not.

  384. Pomme said:

    “We have significant evidence that flo is cheating, we wouldn’t have banned him otherwise”

    LOL u banned me TO PREVENT because my account is ban from one ffa serv with reason aimbot. do u still call that “significant evidence” ?

  385. Wlv: RaWr :: said:

    No we had plenty for you pomme as well :>. Norris I’ll be on @ 19cet #etf2l

  386. Gobi: WSB? said:

    La prochaine fois Redemptor envoie moi ton texte que je corrige les fautes.
    Ca doit etre violent a lire pour les anglophones… xD
    Translation:
    Redemptor, next time give me your reply so that I can try to correct it before you post.

    To the admins:
    I don’t know the so-called “proof” about Flo but if there is some demos, you can post them on youtube so that everybody can see him with his aimbot .
    And if it’s a mistake, just say it admins, you know : “errare humanum est”.
    And please tell us that anakin has nothing to do with all this mess…
    No that’s a joke, we know he’s involved.
    Have a good day you all :D

  387. Pomme said:

    ofc u have a lot of evidence for flo then why not for me XD, it’s totaly impossible u have demo where flo or me are cheating, u just invent them

  388. Gobi: WSB? said:

    And why not promoting Payard:” Cheat admin” ?
    After all he is a MASTER !!!

  389. Mole: DCSB - Hey dats! said:

    AnAkin didnt actually have as much to do with this as you all seem to think.

  390. Serialloser: Hys. - NoraJ. said:

    I just had a look at how sourcebans works and i must say it must be a fucking joke to ban someone for being in this kind of database. You have absolutely no control over those bans, there’s nothing to review.
    Tomorrow anybody can set up a server, install sourceban on it and ban half the div1 player for aimbotting and you will ban them from the etf2l too ?

    About banning the account on which they COULD buy another copy of TF2, it’s just plain stupid they can still buy another copy of the game with a newly created account (tf2 is not so expensive).

    Most of the decision taken there doesn’t make any sense

  391. Bash said:

    ^I don’t think Heliana has denied that he hacked on publics. Now it seems to me that you’re just defending people on the account that they are French instead of real reasons.

  392. Am: jizzed in his p said:

    While I agree with the admins desicion and I think they are doing the best they can, I think showing some the demos where they are cheating to their teams etc would be the right course of action.

    I don’t think they’d ruin other peoples fun just for the sake of banning random people ’cause they feel like it, people in this community put alot of time and effort in to make it what it is.

  393. Mole: DCSB - Hey dats! said:

    Urgh. Can’t edit comments. Anakin didnt have as much to do with this as you guys all seem to think. Sure he may have supplied some info, but if you L2Read you would also see that admins have also found info from ESL, SourceBans website/admins, ofc the etf2l admins will have done their own research as well and you can’t count out information possibly coming from other sources as well.

    The one thing you can be sure of is that AnAkin, at best, supplied some info but had no input on the final decision. The admins of ETF2L will make up their own mind based on their own study of the evidence and not based on “anakin says this person cheats so we should ban him”.

    Its a shame some people in this long line of comments haven’t put more time into trying to maturely resolve the situation in private the way it should be done and less time into being whiny bitches crying about how lifes not fair. The irony being that if it wasnt for your own actions in these comments you might have made some progess and been able to understand the reasons. Admins would have taken the time to explain to you. But now, I couldn’t blame them for putting various people from these comments on ignore.

  394. fabetroma said:

    Je crois que Mole l’a de nouveau dure tout d’un coup …

    I think most of players in the etf2l should be banned for sharing… Many of them shared an account once, for a friend etc, to test a game before buying it for exemple (I Did) .

    Can’t we do that?

  395. Weirdz said:

    I’m french, clean and not proud to be French right now in tf2.
    Plz guys don’t lame about french player, just on cheatorz plz !

  396. Apom: BEC said:

    I’ve stopped reading most of the French-originated comments, they hurt my head. As Gobi says, please have better writers correct your messages before you post, some of them just don’t make any sense (and you obviously have people who are good enough speakers on your teams).

    Serialloser, you claim that “there’s nothing to review”, but actually a demo has been posted related to this specific ban (admittedly this doesn’t always happen, but in this case it did). So there’s plenty enough to review.

    ArX, “There appears to be nothing to stop a person from hacking on a public with a changed name, getting someone else to record a demo and then submitting it through the web application.” That’s true, but it wouldn’t have the impersonated person banned. Actually, it would have the impersonating person banned. Upon review of the demo, the server admin will not ban “a name”: he will check his server logs to find what SteamID was using the incriminated name at the time of events, and then proceed to ban that SteamID. Even if the complaint submitter specified a SteamID along (I don’t know if that’s even possible), no decent server admin would use it without double-checking in a situation when he’s enforcing a permanent ban.

  397. beta: RaWr :: said:

    Apom: I am neither agreeing or dis-agreeing with Arx but you have made an assumption, the assumption server admin checked the steam Id.

    We have an English saying, assumptions are the mother of all f**kups

    :)

  398. AnAkIn said:

    It’s possible to get SteamIDs from demos, to answer Arx, and it was the right SteamID.

  399. andhraya: .:PBP:. said:

    after 388 comments he’s here \o/

    luv u so much <3

  400. AnAkIn said:

    It’s funny to see PBP people flaming that I don’t even know, that probably just came here because colorz people told them “let’s all flame anakin in the news comment!” and that got no idea of what they are talking about. lol.

  401. andhraya: .:PBP:. said:

    no, just luv u. gimme a kiss sweet heart

  402. Weirdz said:

    too bad for sensei, nice guy.
    btw what is a triggerbot ?

  403. RaCio: GoT² said:

    “too bad for sensei, nice guy.
    btw what is a triggerbot ?”

    A triggerbot is a hack that fires for you when your crosshair is on an enemy.

  404. Payard: mLm said:

    TriggerBot = payard’s aimbot ©

  405. Puppets the Phantom Ranger said:

    afaik a trigger bot is a programm that shoots automaticly when you (depends on how its configured) reach the hitbox, so you can put it as a sniper for the head and then just go somewhere to his head an it will shoot when its really on the head hitbox, though for scout it will be not aimed at the head (would be stupid and even easier to spot)
    oh and i just wanted to let you know that sensei actually joined us as a medic :P

  406. Puppets the Phantom Ranger said:

    lol just reading it and 2 responses in the time :P

  407. Xzar: puppeli said:

    I’m wondering if half the frenchies in here are using babelfish, some of the comments are really lunar

  408. Xzar: puppeli said:

    also I’d like to vote for banning all the frenchies from etf2l for the lulz. (except for extensia, they’re fluffy <3)

    cheers!

  409. Bee: xoxo said:

    This game is shit, theres no need to hack in it. Dissapointing :(

  410. Mole: DCSB - Hey dats! said:

    I think its best if this idea of being able to fakenick a player and get them banned is killed quickly. Trust me when I say that the Heliana thing wasn’t made based on an assumption of it being the right person. That wouldn’t have gotten through when I was an admin and its still the same guys doing anti-cheat now. There is more than likely enough tieing it in to being heliana himself.

    The other thing that comes up in debate here: If a player is known to have cheats, has admitted to having cheats, has proven he is willing to attempt to be deceitful against his fellow players and attempt to get away with cheating the outcome of a map by using cheats against other human players, and is willing to use cheats on a public VAC ‘secure’ server where he has bypassed anti-cheat methods. Should he be allowed to get away with being a cheater based on it being on a public server instead of a passworded one?

  411. Puppets the Phantom Ranger said:

    400 !

  412. Gobi: WSB? said:

    Question to people who can answer (Payard ?) :
    Is it possible to use cheats with aequitas running ?
    If not, it may be a good solution to use this software.

  413. paixhaine: H! said:

    Looks like you missed Puppets :p

  414. Xzar: puppeli said:

    no to crapquitas, if there’s some potent programmers in the scene who would be able to code a good anticheat-software it might be viable, but most of the current ones xac/aequitas/sglac etc are fkin hideous -_-

  415. REDEMPTOR: DAKKA said:

    Well source = ESL, sourceban and other…tell me where you have see Flo.

    We don’t have play in ESL for one years (so, one site out)
    I don’t have see him in sourceban (two out, or maybe I’m blind check for me)
    which site does it stay ?

  416. Gheedz said:

    I’m just saying one thing : Can you be sure that 2 accounts with the same IP or 2 IP with the same account is to share an account ?

    Steam wanted to do this system to play anywhere with our friendlist, our games… On any computer.
    If two of them played in a “cybercoffee” (don’t know if that’s it in english, just a place where we pay for using computer and games, with a lot of computers.), on the same computer
    => Same IP, 2accounts
    If one of them have a problem and played at a friend’s house
    => Same IP, 2 accounts AND 2 Ip for the same account.

    If two of them are brothers
    => Same IP, 2 accounts

    Sharing account is forbidden to play league wars. Okay, but if I wanted to play at Peggle Extreme or Audiosurf on my brother’s account (who is in the same team than me.), what can I do ? :'(

  417. Randdalf: (0v0) said:

    Hehehehe. This is quite amusing; skimming through all these posts.

  418. La ETF2L prohíbe a varios jugadores. | TF2Portal.es said:

    […] Enlace […]

  419. Apom: BEC said:

    @beta: I know this particular server admin, so I was not assuming much :] But Anakin answered your concerns anyways.

    @ETF2L admins: the whole “we don’t want to help cheaters avoid us” thing is a load of crap. At least the person being accused should have access to the incriminating evidence you hold against him, as per any justice system in the civilized world (and the rest of his team too, if you are going to enforce penalties on them such as defaulting past matches).

    Your stance is particularly untenable as in the Payard case, someone eventually posted a demo which was evidence enough (I can’t remember who did, but it was a k1ck vs Dignitas record). It wouldn’t have cost you anything to post it yourselves and would have given the community much better assurances in your fair judgement than essentially saying “we have proof so STFU”.

  420. Winneh: [s7] said:

    We will not give out files marked as evidence for public viewing pleasure.
    k1ck vs dignitas has been played _after_ the payard case was closed – so we didnt even watch that demos.

  421. slip: -Hf- said:

    ETF2L = HADOPI

  422. andhraya: .:PBP:. said:

    Please, admin, free Guard, Flo & Origo… They haven’t done anything wrong

  423. Flo: ColorZ said:

    ip adress is not a proof european law ? :D

  424. AnimaL said:

    hi guys, where can i download that bot? plzplz link me!

  425. soo: [j]\\\' - [j]' said:

    I think this is a good example of showing the public what can happend if you cheat. GJ admins regardless if these players accually did all the things that they were accused for it will make othter ppl, (read cheaters) afraid of trying to use their shit in official games.

    To be able to prevent cheating the best way is to make people understand the risk is too high and the outcome of getting cought will be too damaging to their “tf2 career” that they won’t even think about cheating, even in public.

    I feel sorry if these players accually not did cheat but i think this is good for the rest of the league. Hopefully we wont se anymore of these busts.

  426. Xzar: puppeli said:

    law? this ain’t the court sonny boy. It’s the internets

  427. Flo: ColorZ said:

    it’s a joke xzar….

    +1 soo

  428. andhraya: .:PBP:. said:

    bootlicker

  429. The Insane Exfane: EPA - TWIN said:

    @Gheedz: It’s 18 steam accounts that have all been used on 8 different ip’s (french ip’s are static), i.e. 8 different people used 18 different accounts.

    @Apom: Stop beeing so pathetic and epicly useless by posting stuff here that you actually want the admins to take a look at.

    “At least the person being accused should have access to the incriminating evidence you hold against him” Yeah so he can say his mouse slipt there…………….ow and that was just a random twitch shot around a corner, yeah thats no cheat :/

  430. Flo: ColorZ said:

    exfane french ip’s are not all static (me for exemple)

  431. Payard: mLm said:

    leave me alone i’m already banned :p

    “Is it possible to use cheats with aequitas running ?” i don’t really know, aequitas take screenshot and check your cfg but some cheat are programmed to not appear when u take a screenshot, and it doesn’t appear on your cfg if the cheat’s programm is only a .exe.

  432. Xzar: puppeli said:

    atleast Payard had the balls to confess, after getting caught though. But props for him anyway, the others should just suck it up too and admit they’ve been dodgy and are now getting punished for it.

  433. atreides said:

    I don’t want that competitive players cheat on publics neither on officials. Why are they cheating on publics? To get experience with cheats and learning how to cheat without getting banned? There’s absolutely no reason why any player plays with cheats on public.

  434. Heliana said:

    im ban cause i have test a cheat 10 min in my life in PUBLIC server , i dont understand the link beetween public and etf2l league , i just need to be ban from the serv but not from the etf2l and other league , its not like im cheating all the time in ffa and war etc lol , etf2l admin are just fucking stupid to not understand it

  435. REDEMPTOR: DAKKA said:

    “Another sad day for our community.”

    Well ban an innocent that sure it’s sad :)

  436. Weirdz said:

    like hackers works for the FBI. Payard’ll work for ETF2L cheats police.

    haha

  437. Heliana said:

    @ atreides , i think 50 % of player have test a cheat in their life , just for curiosity , fun etc , i have like 1000 hours of tf2 , its not for train my aimbot .

    i dunno why the vac ban player are not ban from etf2l , like anakin , glusfe etc , they have test a cheat too , like me , so just ban them

  438. Wlv: RaWr :: said:

    Sailoser – how many times do I have to say that we check the site matches the player?! If you’re going to flame us read our comments, youre making yourself look stupid.

    Helainas id on the site match the ones in the demo from the same site, and it’s the same id he uses in etf2l, there is no dispute at all. The only other way is if helaina gave out his username and password in steam, to someone else – meaning he is responsible for his own account.

    Take the France vs anakin fight elsewhere, you’ve been warned.

  439. The Insane Exfane: EPA - TWIN said:

    +100 artreides.

    All fukin farts using cheats on pubs should be insta banned on etf2l gogogo

  440. Xzar: puppeli said:

    well if ur fkn stupid enough a retard to just “test” a cheat, you’re stupid enough to get punished for it. The league is filled of players who are clean and smart enough not to even try em out. Heliana didn’t belong in this group and got punished? Fairly justified IMFHO.

  441. Heliana said:

    ok wlv , what is your pov , i need to be ban from league cause i have test a cheat in public one time ? 10 min in my life ? what is the problem for testing cheat , maybe vac ban , but not etf2l ban

  442. Heliana said:

    OMG Xzar , 50 % of player have test a cheat FFS , ban Winneh and GLUSFE , anakin ETC , they are vac ban so they have cheat too NO ? ban them

  443. Guardian said:

    Oh god admins, i’m sooooo stupid ! I didn’t Guess when i played on another account to try tf2 before bought it on my personnal account, that this account around 1 year later will be use by 2 players who cheated on their personnal account or another. Damn ! Slap me again please !

    +1 heliana, i don’t care if he used a cheat on a ffa server, he was ban from the server so he still had his sanction. I consider that if he never cheat on a pcw or an official war, he don’t have to be ban. Even if heliana is retarded i don’t think he has to be ban.

  444. eoN^ said:

    Yes, Heliana you should be banned from etf2l and you should be VAC banned… Your an embarrassment to TF2, all “testing” cheats on pubs does is embarrass your clan and as seen as you play for the French national team, you embarrass your country.

    Pathetic.

  445. Payard: mLm said:

    i think cheat admins have to test cheats if they really wanna know what or who they are hunting, maybe some players do the same i guess

  446. caliban: fail said:

    “”””””””””As for the the other “cheaters” see the payard incident everyone was like “LOL HE DOSNT HACK ADMIN SHOW ME PROOF LOLZ U IS RETARDED HITLER NO PROOF GAYZ””””””

    haha i love u tapley ^_^* chichi

  447. Xzar: puppeli said:

    so he was just doing it for the greater good? To better recognize the cheaters in matches? Oh that fixes it ^^

  448. Heliana said:

    IM A LEGEND

  449. caliban: fail said:

    hmmm after reading tapleys post again…i came to conclusion that he is a gayhater!!!! i smells bans yeeers

    why do u blame zeeh gheey anyway when smth goes wrong …tapley=bad

    rofl0rz

  450. Payard: mLm said:

    i didn’t say that. there are real cheaters and others who just tried it one time to see how it works. i think admins shouldn’t ban just for this. If they ban a guy like me with a lot of evidences, no one will protest against it.

  451. d!ce said:

    thread needs more outrage

  452. Moose: [MIPC] - #10 said:

    Time to introduce an anti-cheat client to ETF2L?

  453. Weirdz said:

    iDrama [2.0]

  454. Heliana said:

    Time to introduce an anti-cheat client to ETF2L?

    Yeah , and deban me , and reban me if the anti cheat spot me :)

  455. Tsu: RaWr :: said:

    No need, etf2l admins made such a gj, banning accounts who didn’t ever did it (or on etf2l matches), by prevention.

    But seriously, I still 100% agree with AcidRenix, and I’m waiting for the upcoming answers ’bout it.

  456. Flo: ColorZ said:

    deban me first im innocent :)

  457. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    well tbh, if you did want to test out a wallhack, you could do it on lan. If you wanted to test out an aimbot, the quickest and easiest way would be to join a public, shoot some people for a little while then leave.

    The reason why the payard case was argued is because a player was banned without proof being released. If the admins suddenly decided to ban say… TCM Evil (random name), don’t you think the TCM guys would ask for proof before accepting the decision? Otherwise they would have to trust the opinion of the admins (which is easy to do when you aren’t directly involved in the dispute), but when it’s one of your team members, you are always going to want to confirm it yourself.

    Once some evidence became available, people accepted the admins decision, well done admins, we appreciated all the work you did and putting up with all the shit people gave you for it.

    The colourz guys are in the same situation, if proof is provided, there is nothing to argue about. It’s an open and shut case, but instead they have to trust the admin’s decision and just… accept it. They will never do that until proof is provided.

    As for Helliana. I’m not really arguing that he hasn’t cheated (i’ve only really argued about how the admins came to the conclusion that he cheated based off of that website ban). With him admitting he has tested an aimbot on a public before that is no longer the issue. The issue would be if hacking on a public (not on regular occasions) warrents a ban from competitive play. I beleive this should be concluded on an individual basis based on intent to cheat in competitive matches and availability of proof during those games to provide evidence that this is not the case.

    A lot of people are simply jumping on the back of this because it’s amusing to flame a high level player and watch them get banned. I think Helliana and the rest of k1ck have allready got quite a significant punishment for this in the fact that we are going to be branded a team of cheaters for the rest of our ‘e-career’. All a ban effectively does is destroys one of TF2’s competitive teams over something trivial.

  458. bm.: said:

    I cheat in GTA 8[

  459. isotop: FLB said:

    free origo & guard !!

  460. atreides said:

    Where to draw the line then ArX?

    Oh wait, it was just a prac, prac’s are just for fun etc.
    This was a official without pricepot, not really counting, …

    You see, the only way of doing a consequent way is to condemn cheating in any situation.

    Another one: I highly doubt that it was only 10 minutes, and the fact that you tried this cheat before this Payard news inspires the suspicion in me, that you even knew about it.

  461. Apom: BEC said:

    @Winneh: I don’t really see why not, your evidence will not lose any integrity if it’s downloaded 2500 times over RapidShare. It’s not like there were going to be 2500 different fingerprints on a physical piece of evidence.

    And please don’t tell me that the reason is that you don’t want to help cheaters make their bots more powerful, it’s a sad excuse. The only thing that was needed to spot the aimbot in Payard’s not-evidence-but-still demo was an eye and a brain, something that cheat makers will not be able to take away from you, no matter how many demos you make public. If you have other fancy techniques (as you probably have) I can understand why you’d protect them, but publishing a couple of .dem doesn’t give cheaters the slightest insight into these techniques.

    @Exfane: sorry for being pathetic and useless, please don’t hate me :(

  462. Mr_Plus: #RofL said:

    “i need to be ban from league cause i have test a cheat in public one time ? 10 min in my life ? what is the problem for testing cheat , maybe vac ban , but not etf2l ban”

    So you admit that you’ve cheated on TF2, that’s pathetic for French Team Leader, a FUCKING shame…

    Now, you tryed cheat on FFA, who knows if you wont try on match ? It’s called prevention.

    Next time, remember that you’re playing on TF2 Top level and bullshits like cheats are not allowed, for anyone.

    :)

  463. d0llar said:

    Allow me to explain the situation with forzew.
    forzew has been detected using a fastfire script 4 months ago (exact date 19.11.08) in an ESL match against overGame, while he was playing for 9th Gaming. DrG, while looking at forzew’s Aequitas file, found the fastfire script clearly set and ready for use. They had a little spam fight in the ESL match page, Link to the match page:
    http://www.esl.eu/eu/tf2/6on6/league/season2/match/11245645/

    Two weeks later, forzew played another game for 9th, this time against TFPortal (exact date 3.12.08). If you check the Aequitas file from that match, the script is gone. Link to the match page:
    http://www.esl.eu/eu/tf2/6on6/league/season2/match/11245655/
    So how come 4 months later, when forzew had clearly deleted the script right away after getting warned, leaving the fact that it doesn’t even help him as a Demoman (which is the class he plays), GLC is getting points taken off?

    To be fair, the 1 point deduction doesn’t matter that much to our team, as we’ll finish in 2nd place in our division both ways… But as ETF2L now ‘tagged’ forzew, without even stating this story is 4 months old, it’s clear that people will throw some comments towards him in every match he plays.

    I think ETF2L is blaming forzew for nothing. Not only is this script useless for Demoman, which is the only class he ever played on an ETF2L game, but he had also deleted the script right away after realizing its forbidden, which was a long time before Season 4 had even started, as you can see in the match links above.

    d0llar

  464. sQVeh?: h. said:

    I dont think you should seperate cheating on a public server, pcw or officials. Might just be me but I think we as a community and the leagues should have zero tolerance when it comes to cheating. If you start to cheat on a public server you might be tempted to try it out even more. If you are curious and what to check out how cheats work you could easily do this safely vs BOTS @ LAN or whatever.

    IMO this might be just what is needed to hold the cheating low in TF2. So this game wont become a cheating fest like CS1.6 or CS:S.

  465. Mumm.lu said:

    As i have been arguing before I think that actually there is a urgent need for the ETF2L to get a decent Anti-Cheating tool beside the excellent work done by the admins

    I remember the first months in Tf2 : We played the game and weren’t even thinking that the opponent was using cheats….. just because there weren’t any cheats developped yet.

    Now the situation has changed. We know that there are cheats, we know that they are being used, also in competitive (3 cheat topics during the last monthes). As the cheats get more publicity as in this topic, the demand will increase…. a vicious circle begins.

    We have to stop the problem now, before the harm is too big because I personnally don’t want our game to end like CS:S, that means suspecting every stronger opponent of cheating.

    /me signs for ETF2L Anti-Cheating Tool

  466. miikka: [MIPC] - [MIPC] said:

    I once played with sv_cheats 1. Plz don’t ban me :(

  467. J-ake² said:

    Heliana is so bad, he can’t cheat :/

    FREE COLORZ

  468. Payard: mLm said:

    “IMO this might be just what is needed to hold the cheating low in TF2. So this game wont become a cheating fest like CS1.6 or CS:S.”

    TF2 is already like CS, u just don’t know it yet

  469. Flo: ColorZ said:

    zero tolerance ok

    But mistake in judgement is possible too. Althouhg etf2l admin show me proof i will never admit it

  470. isotop: FLB said:

    FREE origo & guard !!!

  471. Heliana said:

    ““i need to be ban from league cause i have test a cheat in public one time ? 10 min in my life ? what is the problem for testing cheat , maybe vac ban , but not etf2l ban”

    So you admit that you’ve cheated on TF2, that’s pathetic for French Team Leader, a FUCKING shame…

    Now, you tryed cheat on FFA, who knows if you wont try on match ? It’s called prevention.

    Next time, remember that you’re playing on TF2 Top level and bullshits like cheats are not allowed, for anyone.

    :)”

    Ok so , for the prevention , why not ban player who test cheat in other game ?? , it’s called prevention .

    the player vac banned need to be ban too , it’s called prevention

    now i can play on public , where i need to be ban , and i cant play in league , nice joke

  472. angra: [j]\\\' - [j]' said:

    gj admins.

    Dosen’t matter if you guys didin’t cheat in etf2l they set the rules. If they don’t want cheaters from pcws/public it’s up to them.

  473. BaNaNa said:

    # atreides: [eLD] said:

    March 23rd, 2009 at 3:29 pm

    Where to draw the line then ArX?

    Oh wait, it was just a prac, prac’s are just for fun etc.
    This was a official without pricepot, not really counting, …

    You see, the only way of doing a consequent way is to condemn cheating in any situation.

    Another one: I highly doubt that it was only 10 minutes, and the fact that you tried this cheat before this Payard news inspires the suspicion in me, that you even knew about it.

    I was there when he cheated on a french pub server. It didn’t shocked me as i know this player and i’m sure he did not cheated before and won’t cheat anymore. And just for your information … He played 13 minutes on the pub server …

    Have a nice day, GJ admins but just reconsider Flo, guard and origo’s case.

  474. fabetroma said:

    Xzar: vTroopers said:
    March 23rd, 2009 at 1:33 pm
    also I’d like to vote for banning all the frenchies from etf2l for the lulz. (except for extensia, they’re fluffy <3)
    cheers!

    Are you sure that Exs clan is clean ???Maybe not …

  475. Fragga: FRAGGA`s - RIP said:

    It’s obvious that before you play a cheat in an official, you’ll first test it out in a public server, then a pcw, before ultimately using it in an official game. Just researching the cheat? BULLSHIT – you use these cheats as a means to gain an edge, to be able to compete with better players at a level you simple cannot attain to by regular means.

  476. ChOun: iCon said:

    I think if there was an anti cheat admin for each country, the league shut down. ;D

  477. frooker said:

    I think not. ‘;D’

  478. Gniedler: T4F - FuDoo :> said:

    I accidentally noclip, is this dangerous?

  479. Heliana said:

    ok fragga , i test the cheat One month ago , since no problem with me in pcw or public so why not just Warning me ? and ban me if there is a problem in future

  480. Fuskchock : Onlinegamer - Team Fortress 2 på svenska said:

    […] Den som känner sig vital nog att läsa igenom alla hundratals kommentarer med käbbel kan göra det på ETF2L.org. […]

  481. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    Don’t get me wrong, I don’t support cheating in any way, shape or form, including on publics.

    A league banning a player is a form of prevention from allowing that player to use cheats in matches in that league and maintain the integrity of a level playing field for teams and players who want to enjoy the game competitively.

    But this player hasn’t used cheats in any official/pcw (at least afaik) and would be willing to provide evidence to show this. The integrity of the competition hasn’t been put at risk by his actions on a public as they are unrelated.

    If you are arguing that he has cheated on a public which means he could have intent to go and cheat in an official, then the same argument could be brought up for all of those VAC banned players a while ago. If someone has downloaded and installed cheats for a different game, that means they are ‘cheaters’. It means they have intended on cheating at some point and the same rule should apply because afterall… they could just as easily download cheats and play in an official for this game… If you are trying to prevent something before it actually happens then they should all be just as guilty.

    Fact is if you are taking a zero tollerance policy on cheating under any circumstances, then cheating in different games should carry the same penalty as the ‘intent’ is there to cheat and that is what you are banning Helliana for, because he hasn’t actually cheated in any competitive match (for this game) and neither have those VAC banned players, they have only cheated in a different scene to the one you are trying to protect.

    Instead of doing that, which I see as being rediculous, a player who has evidence of cheating for anything non-related to a competitive match, should be a ‘suspect’. They should be regularly asked to proove their innocence with demo recordings, screenshots, stv etc… Falior to do so would result in a penalty system or even a ban (There are many ways this can work, I don’t need to go through it).

    What player in their right mind is going to cheat in a match if they have to provide proof? No one of course… So what would ETF2L have done by implementing this? Oh my… it’s prevention and deterent!! The same damn thing many of your are arguing for.

    And Mumm, anti cheat tools are great at preventing very few cheats. Most of these cheats can be detected without a form of anticheat. For example, anti cheats are great at spotting wallhacks (via screenshots), config scripts (via config logs) and external programs. There are ways around most, if not all of these, but people are lead into a false sense of security as they asume people can’t cheat around the anticheat.

    If someone can code a good one that doesn’t lag up low end machines, then i’d be pushing for it to be released too as it does act as a deterent for anyone thinking about hacking.

  482. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    And Fragga, that is all speculation. One could argue that first you download a cheat to use as an effect for a frag movie, then you try it on pubs, then PCWs, then officials. Fact is people can download cheats for reasons only they know. I myself have been curious about how aimbots and other cheats have evolved since I last saw/used them (oh noes). The only reason why I haven’t acted on my curiosity is because I’m lazy, not because I think the community would ban me because of it.

    Some people have never downloaded a cheat for any game ever ever ever and cool for them.
    I’ve had some great fun playing CS back in the day at an Internet cafe with some friends with the machines running aimbots, wallhacks, you name it, it was AWESOME!

    Does this change my ability or willingness to play a fair and competitive game of TF2? Of course it doesn’t unless I decided otherwise.

  483. Mr_Plus: #RofL said:

    # ChOun: ColorZ said:

    March 23rd, 2009 at 4:18 pm

    I think if there was an anti cheat admin for each country, the league shut down. ;D
    ———————————-

    You’re wrong, only few teams here are bullshit.

    ———————————-
    # Heliana: k1ck – -f- said:

    March 23rd, 2009 at 4:25 pm

    ok fragga , i test the cheat One month ago , since no problem with me in pcw or public so why not just Warning me ? and ban me if there is a problem in future
    ———————————-

    Damn… you know that cheats are not allowed in TF2 (global, not only League).
    Only 13 min on FFA is still cheat.

    Use ur brain first !

  484. cook: FB said:

    FREE WILLY

    AND FRENCH NELSON MANDELAS

  485. Heliana said:

    we are all making a mistake , this is mine , just let me a chance for me and my team to continue the league

  486. ruffeeh said:

    tl;dr

  487. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    tbh his punishment is going to be called a hacker 24/7 for every dodgey shot he ever makes lol

  488. b_noit said:

    “TF2 is already like CS, u just don’t know it yet” ,
    Payard the player who had played one and only fps in his life ? ( tf2 )
    Okay , plz we need more of yours brillant comments.

  489. cook: FB said:

    Take it to VAC, FINISH HIM.

  490. Winneh: [s7] said:

    You still have your chance Heliana, 2010.
    Every other league bans for at least 5 years or lifetime.

  491. The Insane Exfane: EPA - TWIN said:

    # Heliana: k1ck – -f- said:

    March 23rd, 2009 at 4:39 pm

    we are all making a mistake , this is mine , just let me a chance for me and my team to continue the league

    Fuck that, your team will have to wait a year

  492. F2 :]: Vintage said:

    “If you are arguing that he has cheated on a public which means he could have intent to go and cheat in an official, then the same argument could be brought up for all of those VAC banned players a while ago.”

    No you can’t argue that way. If they were banned 1 year from the time they cheated, they wouldn’t be banned any longer. Heliana on the other hand cheated one month ago.

    So saying that “if Heliana is banned for cheating on a public, then everyone who cheated in CS should be banned from ETF2L as well” is wrong. I guess if ETF2L made permanent bans for cheats you could argue that way, but they don’t.

    That’s also why Heliana’s own “but 50% have tried cheats sometime” doesn’t work.

    The rules are clear. “Any kinds of cheats are not allowed. Player using cheats will be punished.”
    It doesn’t say “unless you use cheats on a public, then it’s totally allowed!”

  493. Payard: mLm said:

    b_noit i got a brilliant comms for you : ta mère, elle est comme Mario, elle saute pour avoir des pièces.

    <3 ;)

  494. fabetroma said:

    The next line up of Team France : Anakin , empty slot, empty slot, empty slot, empty slot,empty slot ….

  495. cook: FB said:

    It’s all a conspiracy. You’re right fabe. No one who is french could ever be a cheater. It’s that dastardly Anakin and his plotting.

    Brb getting tin foil hat and microwave.

  496. Gobi: WSB? said:

    You’re wrong fabetroma you you’ve forgotten : b_noit and Chipolatas^^

  497. Heliana said:

    “The rules are clear. “Any kinds of cheats are not allowed. Player using cheats will be punished.”
    It doesn’t say “unless you use cheats on a public, then it’s totally allowed!””

    F2 why not just warning me for my mistake ?

  498. Heliana said:

    im ban one years for testing a cheat in public , payard is ban one years for Using cheat in pcw , that is just stupid

  499. Sabinrenex said:

    i think that anakin bash needs to stop. because even if was the mastermind behind this,even if etf2l admins came to HIM and said “anakin,its YOUR call…should we ban players x and z?”. he still didnt do anything bad. he helped reduce the cheaters numbers. you may hate him as a person or label him as the one who “stabbed the entire french nation in the back. but thats bullshit. gj anakin

  500. Fragga: FRAGGA`s - RIP said:

    I should also add here, because some of you might not know, at least one of those persons with a one-year ban had previously used an aimbot and was banned from multiplayer servers (this was over 6-months ago)

  501. Heliana said:

    who ? , yeah so its stupid to ban me anyway

  502. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    “Any kinds of cheats are not allowed. Player using cheats will be punished.”

    Ok, so let’s take that rule.

    ANY KIND, do I need to write out a definition for you?

    The league rules are rules of THE LEAGUE, not just rules. If a player has cheated in the league, they should be banned. Otherwise…

    “Any kinds of cheats are not allowed. Player using cheats will be punished.”

    This means that those vac players should be punished (they weren’t).
    This means that if you’ve cheated in Sonic the hedgehog, you should be punished.
    This means if you have cheated on your wife, you should be punished.

    It’s obvious the case needs to be relevant to the ETF2L in order to be punishable. Playing in a CS match isn’t really relevant, except for it being a competitive game, so a player shouldn’t be banned. Playing in a TF2 Public isn’t relevant as it’s not a competitive game (the environment you are trying to protect).

    Hell, should teams be docked points if they use more than 1 medic on a public loooool? That’s what the rules say! You are only allowed 1 medic! Doesn’t matter if it’s on a public or in a match!

    Get my point?

  503. Payard: mLm said:

    yep stop talking about Anakin , you give him more importance that he deserves.

  504. h.ulv: h. - Liero said:

    The rules, as far as i can read them do not state that you can be banned for using cheats in a non-ETF2L game, so it seems the admins have employed some free interpretation here. I suggest that the rules-page be patched with these new directives. I also think it would be appropriate that players who for some reason or another used cheats in the past, or is linked to an account which has been used for cheats, can notify the admins with some sort of “my cheatings days are over, i swear it”-oath. It would be silly to just ban people for things theyve done in the past if they just join the league now. Perhaps related to the signup form for new users?

  505. Rynex: FAB - nubs said:

    im ban one years for testing a cheat in public , payard is ban one years for Using cheat in pcw , that is just stupid

    You did it on a server with sourceban though. Why even test a cheat out in the first place. You should know in your own mind how it would work, all you’re doing is griefing that server.

  506. Fragga: FRAGGA`s - RIP said:

    Do you seriously think its ok to use aimbots and wallhacks and radars and health meters in publics, and still be allowed to play in the competitive scene with prize money and stuff? Are you out of your god damned mind? Does anyone really believe such a person would have the necessary strength of character to turn that cheat off for matches?

    Leagues should run zero-tolerance for cheating whether that be in actual league games or anywhere outside in the world of TF2.

  507. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    and yes H, that was one of my points. The rules don’t say anything about it. The admins shouldn’t only rely on the league rules to make decisions. But you can’t backup your decision using the rules when they say nothing about it.

  508. Misurugi said:

    Soyez plus ouvert certains.. C’est pas parce qu’un mec décide de tester un cheat (la curiosité ça existe) sur un random serv FFA, qu’il les utilisera en match.. Je vois pas l’interêt de sortir “LOL TU CHIT NOOB” alors qu’il ne l’a peut-être jamais fait en Pcw/mix/matchs officiels..

    Alors oui, faut pas cheat sur TF2, on le sait tous, mais soyez honnête avec vous même, n’avez vous jamais fait un truc qui n’est pas autorisé?

    “Tiens, on m’a dit que tu avais grillé un feu rouge une fois, donc au cas ou tu te déciderais à recommencer, on va te retirer ton permis maintenant, même si tu ne comptes pas le refaire ^_^”

    Je verrai plus un système de “on te garde à l’oeil, on sait que tu as déjà cheat, si tu cheat en match, on te ban pour x ans” que “on te ban même si tu as jamais cheat dans notre ligue, on te ban “au cas ou””

    Enfin bon =X

  509. cook: FB said:

    If you’re going to argue in French so no one understands it use fucking PM, god.

    Less wild comparisons too please.

  510. fabetroma said:

    @h.ulv
    If they cheated in the past what can make an admin sure that he’ll never do the same thing in the past, that’s the prevention as used for the cases quotes…
    imagine a men saying “Ok I cheated a few months ago to see what it looks like and to determine or spot better a cheater…”
    Do you think the admin should answer “ok come in the league it does’nt matter”…if he does that it means that the league will have the same “quality of players” as now …

  511. andhraya: .:PBP:. said:

    500!

  512. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    We aren’t talking about an excessive myg0t member here Fragga. We have said proof can be provided to show that previous and future competitive matches do not involve cheating of any kind.

    You don’t ban someone based on your opinion of their strength of character. Otherwise you should probably be banned as I, along with a number of people think you are a douche.

    A tournement match is a test of 2 teams on a level playing field to see who is the better team. Cheating in a public has no effect on a tournement match. If the player cheats in a tournement match, he should be outright banned.

  513. xncc.: flowerpower/ - wayne tag said:

    someone counting comments plx? :D

  514. jaakkoo said:

    In my opinion cheaters should be banned for life from steam.

    It’s the same in real sports: if you use doping during the training season and get caught from it, you’re not allowed to compete at all. I think the tolerance for cheating is way too high at the moment. If the punishments aren’t hard enough, cheaters would continue using cheats..

  515. Sabinrenex said:

    if you used cheats anywhere and got caught your a CHEATER, as such you shouldnt be allowed to play anywhere.

    you film frag movie?, you want to see just what this “x cheat” does?…you want to have a little fun tweaking the game mechanics?…fine go open your private server and invite your friends who wouldnt mind that. you cannot justify thier use anywhere else. [even if you say “fuck public” you ruin other people’s fun,how nice is that?|

  516. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    And no I don’t think it is ok to cheat on a public server, I think it is lame and ruins the fun of people around you. Just as if I was playing a game of headers and volleys and picked the ball up and threw it in the net. Does that mean if I was playing for a professional football team I should be banned based on that one incident?

  517. kolox: obs. said:

    Once a cheater, always a cheater?

    Pretty sure this phrase was bandied about in several discussions before by many people, including the Ezizll (sp?) case on GotFrag and other cases here.

    So that “rule” applies to those, but not for this?

  518. fabetroma said:

    +1 misurugi
    translation for players :
    Be aware .. This is not because one guy decided to test a cheat (the curiosity exists) on a random serv FFA, that he will use the match .. I see no interest to get out “LOL YOU NOOB CHIT” when it has perhaps never been in PCW / mix / match official ..

    So yes, do not cheat on TF2, as we all know, but be honest with yourself, have you ever done something which is not allowed?

    “Oh, I was told that you had blown a red light once, so in case you decide to do it again, we’ll remove your license now, even if you do not do it again ^ _ ^”

    I see more a “we’ll keep an eye on, we know that you already cheat, if you cheat in a match, you will be ban for x years” that “we’ll ban even if you never cheat in our league , you will ban “in case” ”

    Anyway = X

  519. h.ulv: h. - Liero said:

    @AcidReniX: you wrote while i wrote :)

    @fabetroma: people can change, people can have malicious brothers, anyone can have skeletons in their closets. But it would be important to notify newcomers that if you cheat, even on a pub, you can get banned from the league. I also think it would be unfair to judge people who are currently not under the legal binds of the ETF2L rules (since they are not signed up yet) to ban them as soon as they do sign up.

    @xncc.: An!mal | 506 Comments »

  520. v1ko said:

    heliana kill yourself

  521. Sabinrenex said:

    your football example isnt the currect one to use . think more if illigal baseball bats that are made from banned matirieals. sure if you used it on a game with your friends you wont be banned from your new york yankees team. same as you cheated in vollyes. but problem is you CAN keep playing useing this illigal bat until they catch you in the professional baseball. but you cant just go and cheat like that in middle of a football game

  522. Heliana said:

    Lot of player in etf2l are vac ban so just ban them too for prevention now , i just ask for a warning and if there is ONE other problem with hax about me just ban me at life , for my team and for the national team plz :<

  523. paixhaine: H! said:

    Haven’t read everything but
    @Infane Exfane:
    “It’s 18 steam accounts that have all been used on 8 different ip’s (french ip’s are static), i.e. 8 different people used 18 different accounts.”

    French IP are not all static. And I can tell you at least Typh0n’s one is not.

  524. cook: FB said:

    Don’t think Typh0n’s login details are static either tbh.

  525. Rynex: FAB - nubs said:

    A bit of a poor analogy AcidReniX, but lets see if I can respond effectively.

    Picking up the ball and throwing it in the net in a game of Headers and Volleys would be a pretty annoying thing to do. Should you be banned from a professional football team for doing that? No, but I’d assume that you’ll not be playing any time soon with such an attitude. You’re disrespecting what your team stands for, in a way.

    Everyone on this website who takes part in a competitive league is meant to be an honest, friendly and professional player. By signing up, you agree to the values of the brand “ETF2L”. If your caught using hacks on a public server, it reflects badly on ETF2L.

    Take my case for example, where I got banned for certain commentary. Though certain individuals disagreed with the ban, I believed it was fair because ETF2L is meant to represent those values stated above. It’s their right to deliver bans to particular people for being the kind of guy who “picks up the ball and throws it in the net during a football game”. Some people may disagree with what I’m saying here and think “LOL WHY SO SERIOUS”, but I think that it’s a sound reaction. It’s not like it’s forever anyway. A year isn’t exactly forever… maybe he can do something equally constructive for his team like manage clan wars and things?

  526. F2 :]: Vintage said:

    This means that those vac players should be punished (they weren’t).
    This means that if you’ve cheated in Sonic the hedgehog, you should be punished.

    You missed my whole point about the timeline then.
    If you cheated 8 years ago in CS, a 1 year ban would be expired by now.
    If you cheated 12 years ago in Sonic, a 1 year ban would be expired by now.
    If you cheated 1 month ago in TF2 however, a 1 year ban (or 11 months) should be applied.

    You cannot in any way compare someone cheating in TF2 1 month ago to someone cheating in CS or Sonic several years ago. Stop doing it.

  527. cook: FB said:

    Killing blow.

  528. Sabinrenex said:

    i like your post f2 but your wrong in the case of sonic ,you cheat in that its a ban for LIFE. we true sonicholics never forgive and never forget

  529. cook: FB said:

    Big ups to Eggman, holdin’ it down.

  530. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    So all of those vac banned players are banned for 1 year correct?
    Of course most of them _probably_ would have expired by now.

    Do you know the exact time of every one of those vac banned players?
    Can I have the list please. What if some of those players cheated 1 day before the mass vac ban came into place? They would still be banned now. I want those timing if they are banned.

    What if Glufse cheated in CS 3 months ago. He’s still playing in the league…
    Fact is you don’t know the exact date of when they cheated, so a year ban should be applied from the moment they are found out. Yet this is not the case…

    Sounds like double standards here, and ETF2L is striving to be proffesional about it?

    It would also mean that if I was cheating now, but got found out in 1 years time. I wouldn’t get banned for it, despite having played in 1 year’s worth of matches. No punishment for being caught late! RAHH!

  531. F2 :]: Vintage said:

    Exactly, we don’t know so we don’t ban. No need to ban if something is inconclusive.
    In Heliana’s case, however, we know the time.

  532. CHewY said:

    Pretty funnily bad that they’ve banned people off etf2l – a site for a game they don’t even own – professional more please, glad my name wasn’t picked out of the hat this time!

  533. h.ulv: h. - Liero said:

    indeed they dont own the game! omg! etf2l, BUY IT NOW!!

  534. cook: FB said:

    Each topic posted on news needs a template for people who can’t be arsed to read the topic before posting.

    I think the “THEY DON’T EVEN OWN TF2” is a pretty strong candidate for this one, if a bit late on arrival.

  535. Flo: ColorZ said:

    http://www.megaupload.com/?d=N3ORAIFX

    watch this demo and judge me omfg

  536. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    So what you are saying F2, is you KNOW that people have cheated before, but they are receiving no punishment for it.

    I actually totally agree! But for completely different reasons. The only reason why I agree that those players should not be banned is because what they have done has absolutely no effect on how they play in competitive matches.

    What if you knew a player cheated in a TF2 public, but didn’t know the exact time? They would receive no punishment? Because it’s inconclusive? Ohhhh so the bans are based purely on WHEN they cheated, not on what they actually did…. I get it now…. very proffesional…………….

    Don’t you see what is wrong with that?

  537. eoN^ said:

    Lol at idiots who cant read :)

    Makes my day where there are over 500 comments on a league site and about 50% of them are posted by idiots who either condone cheating or slag french people or just say “no didnt cheat!” even though there MUST be evidence of it if a panel of admins all agree?

  538. cook: FB said:

    “I’ll say it one last time – we do not, under any circumstance, ban players without evidence that it’s. A) their account and B) several instances of them using the cheat in question.”

    Just re-iterating it, hopefully people will realize there is more evidence than that on the main page and stop arguing about it.

  539. Misurugi said:

    Thanks fabetroma for the translation.

    And no cook, I was not gonna pm 15 french guys to say 15 times the same thing, sorry. Humans have the wonderful hability to ignore what they want to.

  540. F2 :]: Vintage said:

    It would also mean that if I was cheating now, but got found out in 1 years time. I wouldn’t get banned for it, despite having played in 1 year’s worth of matches. No punishment for being caught late! RAHH!

    Well, I think it’s only fair that the time between having used a cheat and being punished for it expires at some point. Whether it should be one year, two years or more, I don’t know.

    You like analogies, so let’s try one. The winner of Tour de France 1996, Bjarne Riis, used doping but was never tested positive for it. In 2007 he admitted to having used EPO, however he didn’t get any punishment for it and he is still considered the winner of TdF1996 by UCI (International Cycling Union). He still participates in Tour de France, now as a manager for a team.

    Ohhhh so the bans are based purely on WHEN they cheated, not on what they actually did

    No, it’s based on both, instead of purely the latter. Read above.

    What if Glufse cheated in CS 3 months ago.

    If I was running a league I would at least keep a very close eye on him. Maybe even ban him… again with the analogies, do you think if someone was banned from playing pro football for using illegal drugs to play better, that he would be allowed to play any other (similar) sport professionally?

    Anyway, ETF2L should revise their rules. They should be more clear regarding cheats.
    They should add something like this: “You are not allowed to have cheated in any multiplayer game within the last 2 years, regardless of it being on public or private servers.”
    – if that’s what their opinion is.

  541. DeNeusbeer: (Legend) - HoT<3 said:

    DeNeusbeer is back from the commercial break (mandatory staring at the google ads for 10 mins) and grabs some popcorn to watch the rest of the show.

  542. Gheedz said:

    “@Gheedz: It’s 18 steam accounts that have all been used on 8 different ip’s (french ip’s are static), i.e. 8 different people used 18 different accounts.”

    Not all french ip’s are statics.
    And, in “cybercoffee” we can see more than 10 steamaccount on the SAME ip, if player want to play with his steamaccount.
    Cybercoffee are opened from 8:00 to midnight generally. A lot of player there, so…
    Your argument is a big fail.

  543. vlad_drac: xoxo said:

    AcidRenix, you’re way off here. From what i’ve read of your comments, you’re of the opinion that the ONLY time you should be punished for cheating is in competitive matches.

    So players should be allowed to cheat every day on every server they like, blatantly if they like, as long as they turn them off during the competitive match later on? Can you imagine the consequences of such a concept on the community of tf2?

    There’s new people who would start playing and immediately stop because Multiplay’s dustbowl 24/7 server has 23 cheaters on it and him. Imagine if that would have been accepted from the start – you wouldn’t be able to be in k1ck earning a nice little bit of money whilst getting a nice little LAN holiday in amsterdam (random example) because people wouldn’t still be playing the game.

    God just imagine if you played my clan tonight and we all had an aimbot and wallhacks on. We stuff you 18-0 on granary and you’re telling me you’d say “well fair enough it wasn’t competitive.”

    There’s a fair argument to say that there’d be no competitive system of tf2 in place if it was fine to cheat in ALL situations except official matches. And how could you be absolutely certain that a guy wasn’t just cheating on dustbowl 24/7 then joined your server for an official without cheats? Imagine the logistics of working something like that out.

    If someone’s cheated in an FPS in the recent past, ban em. Hell if they’ve cheated in an FPS years ago, ban em. I don’t give a toss. I’ve never done it and there’s no excuse to do it, you deserve to be banned NOW for the grief you caused years ago imo.

    (Except if it was on one of those “cheats only” cs servers :P)

  544. vlad_drac: xoxo said:

    Jesus walloftext, sorry about that.

  545. flix: n2o said:

    gj admins

    if someone cheated..he / she should be baned forever!

  546. Heliana said:

    maybe i can be an exeption , and just warning me and keep a very close eye on me . i have just try one time a cheat one month ago , im not a several cheater …

  547. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    a PCW is a competitive environment. It is the same style of play as a clan match. And for the record no, I don’t think that people should be allowed to cheat in publics day in day out. But I do beleive a 1 off test of a hack in a public should receive the same penalty as a player who has been hacking in official matches. I beleive the penalty should be more on the lines of a 1 out of 2 strike with required proof in recently matches and any match in the future on request for a certain amount of time, whether it be pcw or official. brb pickup!

  548. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    Should = Shouldn’t in line 3

  549. cook: FB said:

    Humans also have the wonderful ability to copy and paste, and not be repeat themselves when no one cares. Ah well, tis a shame, guess everyone didn’t inherit these traits. You shouldn’t have posted it in the first place. We’ve already heard it like 40 times from the same 5 people, hence why it’s not even making a point anymore, it’s just annoying and making you look stupid.

    You can’t compare driving and etf2l rules, it’s completely irrelevant. Do you see any shit in your rules regarding driving about there being a 30 minute time limit and medic limit 1. Fuck no, why?

    That’s real life. This is TF2. There are different rules for each. ETF2L have their own set of rules. I could bring up a stupid comparison about how guy A murders guy B, and guy C sees, reports him to the police, and they convict and arrest him through clear evidence. Guy D, E, and F come along and cry their hearts out because he’s their friend, and he didn’t do it in the public eye, so he doesn’t deserve to go to jail. Now wouldn’t that sound fucking stupid?

    I’m not even going to get into this silly comparison shit, it’s going to end in a 100 comment argument about whether cheating is a red light or running over someone. Talk in normal terms, stay on topic.

    Cheating is wrong in all forms, even when not in a official. Don’t do it and you won’t get banned, which goes for Steam(VAC) as well as ETF2L.

    TL;DR ETF2L and the French road laws have the same ruleset apparently, therefore making a direct comparison between running a red light and cheating is okay. Cheating is also okay so long as it’s not in a official.

  550. seppo: Gentleman - -[S2L] said:

    Dont worry vlad_drac, jesus forgives you :)

    lul @ the amount of replys though.. im suspecting a mass ban soon for all the negative people with mean negative comments in this free open minded forum, even if theyre joking! (poor rynex, you will always be in my memories) :(

  551. SuperFly-: DANMARK said:

    Cheating just to try it is one thing but if thats tolerated then more and more will try it and eventually someone will keep using it. Cheating should remain strictly forbidden no matter what the circumstance i think

  552. nifty!: -HH²- - Gm| said:

    ..all vac-banned peeps should be banned in etf2l too!
    All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy!!

  553. AnAkIn said:

    AcidReniX, if you ever want to test a hack, thing that you should not ever do anyway, why would you test it in public servers, and not in a private one with a password?

    Too bad K1ck.Mitsy wouldn’t give the other demo he made of Heliana speedhacking in some other pub servers, but wouldn’t have had changed the admins decision anyway, just would have been more obvious :) Thanks to him for the info of heliana cheating.

  554. cook: FB said:

    Thanks Mitsy.

  555. Shintaz: TEZC - MONSTERFRAGGEN said:

    STFU about cheats everyone. This is the bacon explosion.

  556. cook: FB said:

    Holy fucking shit. That IS the bacon explosion. Speaking of explosions…

  557. Kirby said:

    Its rly amazing to see that it is an old cheater who denounce recent cheaters.

  558. frooker said:

    Wow, I want that. Right now. :>

  559. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    cook, where does it say in the rules that cheating in a public server is forbidden and will result in a 1 year ban. And where does it say in the rules that cheating in a different game will result in no ban. And where does it say in the rules cheating 1+ year ago will result in no ban. Where in the rules does it say any of that?

    You obviously didn’t get the sarcasm used in the medic limit 1 explanation. Nevermind!

    Taken directly from the rules page:
    —————————————–
    1.4.2 Cheats are not allowed

    Any kinds of cheats are not allowed. Player using cheats will be punished.
    —————————————–

    What it neglects to mention, is where players are cheating, when players are cheating, what game players are cheating, what format of a game players are cheating.

    It’s safe to asume that players cheating in ETF2L games will be punished. This is because these are the rules of the league. This rules page is taken from the league website.

    Nowhere does it say that if you cheat outside of the league, you will be added to the ban list.

    However, nobody wants players to use cheats in a game against them… but… I personally couldn’t care less if someone has cheated at some point in the past, as long as they aren’t cheating against me in the match i’m currently playing against them.

    People take all this shit WAYYYYYYYYY too seriously. It’s a computer game, people occasionally have fun / test stuff / etc. on publics, but the element of competition still remains the same. You play a fair game, the better team comes out on top. As long as this isn’t put in jepady, then I don’t see the problem.

  560. Typh0n: AUTOBOTS said:

    So who said Anakin was not behind that?:D

  561. appz: wMiC? said:

    see them at lan, kill them with fire

  562. cook: FB said:

    Medic limit 1 wasn’t referring to you, Acid, I got the sarcasm.

    The rules should be expanded on that section to be more specific, this is fine.

  563. nubrevolution said:

    AcidReniX, I can see where you’re coming from with this, but if you take the rule you’ve quoted to the letter then it follows that these players should be banned.

    “Player using cheats will be punished”

    It’s irrelevant where they’ve cheated because it’s not given a scenario where it’s acceptable. Therefore it’s totalitarian: if you use cheats, you’ll be punished. Ergo guys, you’re actually just getting what the league deems fair punishment. I, for one, stand on the side of the admins on this.

  564. uvio said:

    Oh my …
    All this talk wants me to become ETF2L admin.

    If you are so stupid to use cheats, even if its only for evalutation, on your “main” account, you deserve a ban. It’s called education.

    ETF2L isn’t the only league. If you aren’t ok with how they handle their competition, just play somewhere else.

  565. nifty!: -HH²- - Gm| said:

    ..all vac-banned peeps should be banned in etf2l too!

  566. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    nubrevolution, see if that was the case, i’d accept it and be fine with it. But a tonne of ETF2L players were vac banned which can only mean one thing. They have cheated. None of them got punished for it which means punishment for cheating is situational. The situation I am arguing in this case is that it has no effect on the competitive play they are meant to be policing, so therefore it doesn’t warrent a ban, only monitoring. That argument can be used exactly the same for the VAC banned players that were found out not so long ago which would result in them too getting no penalty.

    Uvio, if a player is banned from ETF2L, all of the other leagues will copy the ban. Leagues should work together to stamp out cheating in competitive TF2, if they didn’t, it would be an epic fail.

  567. F2 :]: Vintage said:

    “Allow occasional public server cheating.” That’s what you’re saying.
    So basically it’s okay to have a cheat installed, as long as you have it disabled for competional matches.
    Interesting point of view.

  568. Mole: DCSB - Hey dats! said:

    Playing devils advocate here and going to ‘magically read between the lines’ as most of the comments have been!

    Arx:

    If you want to test an aimbot, or wallhack, multihack or w/e you can do that by hosting an unsecured LAN server with bots. However Heliana decided to ‘test’ the hack on a VAC’ed public. So what can we say about intent?

    -Heliana was testing whether the hacks work on a VAC secure server? So he must have used this hack in the knowledge he could get VAC banned and was willing to take the risk of a perma ban by going on such a server.
    -Heliana could have tested it online with team mates in a private server. Im assuming by your surprise that you didnt know Arx? So he has intentionally deceived his team in using cheats and didnt want others to know. There is intent to use cheats secretly.

    He kept it a secret, tried to avoid being caught and wanted to play on servers with human opponents. If he hadnt been caught on a public, what was stopping him trying in a league game? How can you say he wouldnt have if he hadnt been caught on the sourcebans list? Surely there is more to prove intent to cheat in a competitive game than there is to prove he wouldn’t have?

    The arguements over the rules and the points your trying to put across, while I agree with you Arx that they are badly worded and do need changing, your trying to argue technicalities. Trying to get a ban removed based on a minor wording technicality? Are you in law by any chance because you should be! :)

  569. Mole: DCSB - Hey dats! said:

    well I fucked that one up.

  570. Grem: rEJ - TG said:

    BACON EXPLOSION NAO!

  571. nubrevolution said:

    Unfortunately, this isn’t the case. Leagues won’t necessarily ban teams/players from their competitions if another organisation does so. This is proven by the fact that so far, ED has failed to act on these allegations against the Colorz players.

    ED do, however, ban any players that are linked to VAC banned accounts.

  572. AnAkIn said:

    It has been said somewhere in the comments that they’ll be ED banned too.

  573. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    ““Allow occasional public server cheating.” That’s what you’re saying.
    So basically it’s okay to have a cheat installed, as long as you have it disabled for competional matches.
    Interesting point of view.”

    It’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying give a warning about cheating in a public server. A second offence would result in a ban as it would mean consistent cheating.

    “Cheat as much as you want but make sure you don’t get caught within 1 year.” That’s what you’re saying.
    Interesting point ofview.

  574. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    If you are going to ban players for cheating in any situation, you ban them from when you found out, not when they started cheating. This would mean the vac banned players should have been banned when they were found out. If you don’t adopt that approach, then the statement above is true.

  575. waebi: ‹Con› said:

    fuck bacon.

  576. AnAkIn said:

    The VAC banned players are banned on different games, or they wouldn’t be able to play TF2. What has it to do with TF2 if they cheated in an other game, and why should they be banned?

    It’s nothing comparable, because here, he cheated in TF2, and not in an other game.

  577. F2 :]: Vintage said:

    No, Arx. If you’re 50 years old and cheated 40 years ago and it’s found out now, you shouldn’t be banned for 1 year. But you think that? If not, where do we draw the line?

  578. Traxantic: TLR said:

    too bad for sensei played a bit with him just yesterday.

    haven’t learned from the old days?

  579. aeqvist said:

    If someone so badly want to test a fucking cheat, do it on a empty server with bots! how hard can it be, I still don’t see the point in trying a cheat….maybe to se how they work to know how to spot a cheater, not else..

    Still don’t understand why the stv demos can be release to the public?

  580. cook: FB said:

    Fuck bacon… ?

    Fuck you!

  581. Chopin said:

    Cheat hunt!!! I will start the bonfire!! Bring the cheaters ;)

  582. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    Anakin

    “The VAC banned players are banned on different games, or they wouldn’t be able to play TF2. What has it to do with TF2 if they cheated in an other game, and why should they be banned?”

    What has it got to do with ETF2L if someone cheats on a public TF2 game? It’s not like it’s an ETF2L public game.

  583. Newbie said:

    VAC bans are universal. All secured VAC servers ban you regardless of the game.

    Keep cheaters out. If you cheat in one game you CAN NOT be trusted not to cheat in another.

  584. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    I’ve said before, I do understand the reasoning for the ban, and the reasoning behind action being taken, but I don’t feel the level of ‘punishment’ is appropriate considering it was a public server and not a competitive match.

    You should be looking to protect the integrity of league play by not allowing players to cheat in the matches. A player who is caught cheating on a public server _could_ cheat in a competitive match, but isn’t nessesarily doing so. For this reason, a warning followed by a monitoring solution would be far more beneficial than a punishment. If the monitoring solution fails, and they continue to hack (on publics, pcws or officials) they should be permanent banned. If they fail to provide evidence when requested, they can be permanently banned, if they don’t agree to this, they can be 1 year banned. Something like, up to 10 requests in 3 months whether they be pcws or officials.

    This solution wouldn’t punish legit league players, only add a sense of security for other league players, and act as a warning to clean up the public hacking for the benefit of the community.

  585. Bury said:

    “VAC bans are universal. All secured VAC servers ban you regardless of the game.”

    no, you cheat in cs1.6 your banned across all hl1 platform games including condition zero, not source games.

  586. frooker said:

    But it would also punish the admins by providing even more work for them, wasting time which could be used more effectively in running the league / finding further cheaters. If you are cheating, you have to reckon that you’ll be banned sooner or later. No need to soften that up from my point of view.

  587. Glufse: ?! said:

    ArX wrote: “What if Glufse cheated in CS 3 months ago.”

    F2 wrote: “If I was running a league I would at least keep a very close eye on him. Maybe even ban him…”

    F2 wrote: “You cannot in any way compare someone cheating in TF2 1 month ago to someone cheating in CS or Sonic several years ago. Stop doing it.”

    Ok F2 ;) lol

    As far as im concerned they can play as long as VAC(2?) let them, its when VAC(2?) bans them from TF2 it is becoming a problem.

  588. Heliana said:

    you just tested a cheat like me glufse , so why im ban from etf2l ? :<

  589. Glufse: ?! said:

    ArX wrote: “What if Glufse cheated in CS 3 months ago. He’s still playing in the league…
    Fact is you don’t know the exact date of when they cheated, so a year ban should be applied from the moment they are found out. Yet this is not the case…”

    “VAC was first released with Counter-Strike 1.4 in 2002,[1] following Valve’s decision to forego PunkBuster in preference of a proprietary system. The initial version, VAC1, saw success for a period, but in March or April 2004 updates ran dry as the Valve engineers maintaining it moved on to the production of its successor, VAC2.

    VAC1 swiftly became virtually useless during this period of development, but since its June 20, 2005, launch VAC2 has successfully overseen a decline in the number of cheating players across games protected by it.”

    That means my VAC-ban happend before the release of VAC2, which was in June 2005.

    So dont even go there.

  590. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    Don’t worry Glufse, I don’t think you cheat or anything, it’s just an example of a name I could remember from the list.

    All I was saying in the example is that the reason I can see why none of those players got banned was because the bans are irrelevant to how they play the game competitively, just as Helliana’s should be. It shouldn’t be about how long ago someone cheated. If someone comits murder 20 years ago, they still get the same punishment (not from the time they comitted the murder, but from the time they got caught).

    I don’t think any of these players should be banned (the vac list and helliana) however someone who has cheated in the past should have a close eye on them as they have betrayed the trust of the community. But the reasons everyone is stating, a lot of them would apply to the vac list of players too.. the whole.. once a cheat, always a cheat stuff, is bull.

    It’s a shame several of the community jumped on the whole ‘BAN THEM ALLLL’ wagon, just like what happened with that vac list. Unsuprisingly, most of the loud voices are the same ones who wanted everyone on that vac list banned. Some people appear to just be trying to eliminate the competition so they can climb the ranks in an undeserved way.

  591. gryzor said:

    Most of us are just happy the big banhammer is out. Ban them all, ban the quickly, ignore their squeals and for the love of god, stop this “let them back in” nonsense. BAN THEM FOREVER!

    … And don’t waste time “monitoring” people, use the time to BAN MORE CHEATERS!

    More STV-demos, more closely watching all divisions for autofire-script, triggerbots, autoaim, wireframing all the demos to watch for wallhacks and what not.

    Ps.
    if you ever meet any of these guys in real life, bashing them around a bit would be a good thing. Don’t feel bad for using tools or in other ways “cheating”, they did it, you can do it do them to make sure they get spanked really hard!
    Ds.

    HOORAY FOR ETF2L AND ALL THE OTHER WORKING AGAINST THESE IDIOTS DESTROYING OUR HOBBY!

  592. Gobi: WSB? said:

    Gryzor you should’nt lick the balls of dead dogs, it gives you brain dommage^^

  593. gryzor said:

    Does it feel nice and comfy making all that sense?

  594. Nept said:

    What gobi wanted to say is : If you wanna get out of the div5, you should stop licking balls ( especially when you dont know the real story ) and work on your poor skill.

    At least that what he wanted to say.

  595. Rez: BEC - B-pin said:

    Playing div5 or under is not a shame. Cheating is.

  596. gryzor said:

    I was one of two people who started the ETFL league in QWTF some 10 years ago, that means I have a career and a life now — as well as SOME time to spend on a hobby. Since I don’t have as much time as you wellfare and/or schoolkids, I’m quite happy in division 5. And since I clearly have no reason to lick any balls whatsoever, it means you borked that insult too! Congratulations!

    For reference, Gudylf (who made the qwf-mod skills4kills, later worked on q3f and now splash damage) made a “special” anti-cheat version of TF2.6 for ETFL where we did the exact same damn thing (catching cheaters), so I presume I know more about cheating and cheaters in general than you do. THANKS FOR PLAYING THOUGH!

    Does it feel nice and comfy making all shit up from nothing (especially when you don’t know the real story and are such an idiot that nobody will ever touch)? Good luck, bozo.

    As I wrote in the post above, this thread sure catches a lot of idiots — It’s a pleasure to get some trolling in here at the end, I need my dose of slapping up lamers.

  597. cook: FB said:

    gryzor bringing the pain.

  598. Nept said:

    Oh nice, wanna talk about my rl? Woot. I bet i get more money on one month than you got in one year, try again before talk about rl LOSAH.

    No reason? So you make it for free? Good to know.

    I dont even care about your reference. You know more about cheating and cheater than i do? OF COURSE you do if you are anakin’s friend, ( who used himself to hack on CS and maybe on TF2 too ) are you a cheater too? Should we spy your account and stv ?

    My bad, Guardian used to explain the fact about his “shared account” and what admins did? delete his thread, if he cant defend against accusation? How do we call that ? I think i know the story a bit more than you, but thats not the question “bozo”.

    You need your dose of slapping up lamers? But if you just open your eyes you’ll see you are the raped lamer.

    Try again.

  599. Gobi: WSB? said:

    ET alors t’as commencé l’etf2l ya 10 ans, je m’en branle espèce de perchon^^
    Tu veux du pain ?!!!
    Maybe I’m just 25 years old but I’m not a schoolkid, and I enjoy you’re happy in d5, it’s cool, I play in d5 too^^
    “I was one of two people who started the ETFL league in QWTF some 10 years ago” -> don’t care
    “t’s a pleasure to get some trolling in here at the end, I need my dose of slapping up lamers.”
    -> So time to masturbate hu ?

  600. Nept said:

    600!

  601. fabetroma said:

    I’m waiting for the next sunday, give us a pitch for the next episode :)

  602. gryzor said:

    I see my work here is done! :D

  603. eoN^ said:

    Lol you wap out that e-peen Nept ;)

  604. Nept said:

    I’ve to admit there is a funny thing here.

    When we try to explain something seriously, we are ignored, people scream insult about french ( sound like similar with something happen in 45~)

    And when you trash talk / flame / insult, people see you and play the flaming game with you.

    Any theory on that seriously? Lets be serious a little. People of many team are accused ( one of mine is for shared account ) let them a chance to defend themselves like any fair court in each country. That would be normal and fair.. dont you think?

    Im talkin to you all. If you was accused, wouldnt you want to have a chance to defend you on front of the entire communauty? Wouldnt you want to try to proof you are legit like most of players here ?

    Think about it.

    Now we have two choice. Think about that and have a serious adult talk about all those accusations or continue to flame us and bring more insults for nothing constructive.

    Seriously think about that please all.

  605. F2 :]: Vintage said:

    Yes Glufse, I was referring to time, not game.
    ie. if someone cheated in CS yesterday it would be relevant but not if he did it 8 years ago.

  606. JamesBong: Lapinou Team said:

    “also I’d like to vote for banning all the frenchies from etf2l for the lulz. (except for extensia, they’re fluffy <3)”

    I’m too fluffy for my shirt, too fluffy for my shirt, too fluffy for….

  607. Garion: [GM'E] - GM said:

    ok, i have read all that, took me 2 hours of my sleep and i have read 50 useful post, the other ones were just rubbish/crap/spam/flame etc, srsly guys, if you have something relevant to say or want to run some kind of discussion (like arx), feel free to post, but not if you just want to spam your first time impressions of the news, thats useless

    now i demand cookie

  608. Haunter: DiG said:

    “testing cheats” :D

    seriously, there isnt any valid excuse to try/use cheats, i totaly agree on banning a player for 1month or 1 year, for me, should be forever, and doesnt matter if its a public or a pcw

    grats etf2l for ur decisions

  609. Kritz - My critrocket in ur face » Blog Archive » le putain! said:

    […] vairāki pazīstami spēlētāji, to skaitā Heliana un Pomme. Pilnu sarakstu varat apskatīt šeit. Ziņas sasniegušas rekordlielu 600 komentāru slieksni, taču tā arī nekas noskaidrots nav […]

  610. BvD: flowerpower/ said:

    +1 to the one that read all posts

  611. eviLhuNteR said:

    made my day… AGAIN =D

    hahahhaa

  612. Digiwill: =[IDK]= said:

    I have only 1 thing to say to the haxorz:

    http://www.english4dummies.com/

    oh yes, I remember you guys (CoLorz aka clan Incoming) who flamed about every friggin’ clan in the former season.

  613. Iller: tGa said:

    I have read all the posts, except the ones in French since I don’t understand that language.
    +1 to me !!!

  614. Gheedz said:

    “^I don’t think Heliana has denied that he hacked on publics. Now it seems to me that you’re just defending people on the account that they are French instead of real reasons.”

    FATAL ERROR !
    I think he’s just wondering why trust sourceban. Heliana didn’t deny his cheat, no problem with that, and i havn’t see the other guy talking on sourceban defending him. Just telling that trust this kind of system is totally stupid. And on this point, i totally agree with him.

  615. Winneh: [s7] said:

    Thats why we only banned the ones, where we were able to aquire demos (which we could review with our ac team).

  616. Xzar: puppeli said:

    when will it be OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAND

  617. deny said:

    push!

    gogo 700 ;)

  618. fabetroma said:

    @God; in this locked thread (http://etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-2551/page-6/) you said taht french players are cheaters…thx for generalise
    If we follow your mind, you mean that Italian are still linked to fascism and germans to racism?cause some are still for exemple…I don’t know why you are flaming at french players which were left alone and quiet before these bans… Reading your post makes them as usual cheaters… it makes me laughing so much… I am waiting for the next bans if you keep going on hunt cheaters (and not only french players) …
    Germans player are still great cheaters in every games and everybody knows that…that’s a fact, more players (nolife) more chance to have some cheaters…OH it is so easy to generalise you see?

    The staff took a decision, many people disapprouve but this seems to not chock them…ok Well
    If the aim is to eject french players from this competition, it’s simple to say…

    gl hf for next

  619. Redah said:

    I’m really ashamed to be french now…

    And I’m also ashamed for them, especially knowing that they were almost constantly claiming in the TF2 french community that they were the best and flaming all the other french players (spéciale dédicace à Heliana, gg mec !).

    Good thing they left LFTF2 (the small french TF2 league) finally (too low for them) !

    Gj admins

  620. deny said:

    plz seriously!

    germans are the best cheaters in the world.

    see aves and johnny, only cheats bring them to TmG.

    P.S. is not a joke Kai;)

  621. daf: yoyotech - Hey dats! said:

    Arx, you’re really hurting your own reputation and stance in the community by persisting with thisargument. There should be a no tolerance policy on all cheaters. You know this as well as I do. And now it seems that just because the guy is in your clan, you are defending him. I’ve been gaming for a long time and I’ve seen many many cases of cheating. They all end up getting defended the same way i.e. by their fellow clan members and countrymen. You’re just being stereotypical and the simple fact is the only reason you’re arguing is because he is in your clan. It’s so painfully obvious to everyone. It’s so typical of a cheating case and defence that it is boring now.

    Cheating should be punished 100% of the time, regardless of circumstance. If one of my clan members was caught using an aimbot in a public TF2 server, regardless of how many times or for how long or if his dog was using his account at the time, I would fully support the ban. Heliana was caught once on a public server aimbotting… How are we supposed to believe that he hasnt done it hundreds of times but not been caught? Take the word of someone who got caught cheating? Yeah, ok.

    It may be the case that he used it once for 13 mins, got caught and deleted it from his computer. But who cares? As far as im concerned that’s cheating and he has now shown his intent to cheat. Why would he test it anyway? To see if he could get away with it, if it would be detectible?(of course) So he could see it first hand making it easier to tell if others are using it?(hardly) As far as comparing it to cheating in CS etc, that’s bullshit and you know it. If you never intend to play CS competetively and go on a server with a few mates and cheat then I dont agree you should be banned from playing TF2, although of course I agree you should be banned from playing CS again. It’s simple really.

    Please don’t come back with a long winded, over opinionated, non sensical response because I cba reading+responding to a million things… I know that’s the tactic you use in debates.

    p.s. I will certainly think twice about listening to QuadV again. GL

  622. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    “There should be a no tolerance policy on all cheaters”
    “Cheating should be punished 100% of the time”
    “As far as im concerned that’s cheating and he has now shown his intent to cheat.”

    “As far as comparing it to cheating in CS etc, that’s bullshit and you know it.”
    “If you never intend to play CS competetively and go on a server with a few mates and cheat then I dont agree you should be banned from playing TF2”

    Er……… Don’t you see what is wrong with your post? You are basically saying cheaters should be banned under ALL circumstances………. except X X and X…. THEN you are saying that if you never intended on playing CS competitively, that’s fine to cheat!! So you are seperating competitive play from public play… Just as I have said.

    Yes I am defending one of my clan mates because it directly affects me. If it was someone else in the community, I would have the same opinion only I wouldn’t post so much because I would have no reason to waste my time on them, they can defend themselves.

    As for my e-reputation, I really couldn’t care what people think of me lol and if you don’t want to listen to quadV because I am arguing a defence case for a clan mate then lol… You won’t be missed anyway.

    I can be pathetic too if I need to be. Maybe i’d think twice about casting any Wotr games. Or maybe there might be some small… Biased opinions against your team.

    Sadly I’m not like that, not over a passing comment.

  623. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    Oh and as for defending clan mates. I argued the same for payard but I argued differently. I had played with quite a few times and never noticed anything, so I questioned the source of the proof. Since none was provided, that’s perfectly resonable to do so.

    As soon as I saw some proof, the argument was dropped, he was removed from the team. Open and Close case. Well done admins, I appreciate the work they did because i’d rather drop him now before we became dependent on him. He had only been in the team a couple of weeks max.

    If I was a league admin, and said “We have proof that Predz uses an aimbot, he’s now banned for a year”, would you accept it? Wouldn’t you like to see some proof before you kicked and removed him from the team? Of course you would. I can justify why I defended him and i’ve justified many times why I’m defending Helliana.

    I’m not debating that cheating is fine in publics, or in any circumstances. I just beleive that a public cheater doesn’t nessesarily mean a competitive cheater, and therefore shouldn’t recieve the same punishment as one, especially when proof can be provided through recent demos and future ones that he wasn’t/isn’t cheating in competitive matches.

  624. SamurAi said:

    what a nabs gj admis ;]

  625. Woody said:

    Less QQ more pew pew. \o/

  626. Flo: ColorZ said:

    “Cheating should be punished 100% of the time, regardless of circumstance. If one of my clan members was caught using an aimbot in a public TF2 server, regardless of how many times or for how long or if his dog was using his account at the time, I would fully support the ban.”

    If one of your clan is ban but you are not sure and admin etf2l dont heard you

    What do you do ?

  627. skinnie: TCM said:

    [16:15:45] [@Vale_Haunter]: guys i have something to tell u
    [16:15:58] [@Vale_Haunter]: i’ve been using wallhack
    [16:16:34] [@Vale_boomeh]: is that aj oke
    [16:16:41] [@Vale_Haunter]: no
    [16:16:50] [@Vale_boomeh]: in pcw’s??
    [16:16:57] [@Vale_Haunter]: yes

  628. Haunter: DiG said:

    u were suposed to deffend me skinnie?

  629. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    Well put it this way. If i go and download a cheat now, make a video on youtube, play for 10 minutes on a public server, kill a few people then uninstall the cheat. Will the ETF2L admins ban me despite it having no effect on my ability to play in a competitive match fairly?

    Hmmm tempted to find out!

  630. Haunter: DiG said:

    i would ban u

    u are taking an advantage over the public players, they might not be as good as u, but they spend the same money and invest the same time playing the game, dont see whats the point in cheating, even for silly movies

  631. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    Lol, I don’t see the point in cheating either. But for my own personal reasons, I might want to go and test to see the capabilities of modern gaming hacks. A better understanding of the cheats could result in a greater level of cheat detection. There can be legit reasons for doing so, even if it’s just simply curiosity.

    The movie would simply be a statement saying something on the lines of:

    “Hi this is Arx, I have downloaded X cheat and I am playing in a public server, haha this is kind of fun, yea anyway… now I will uninstall the cheat as I have no desire to use this to gain an advantage over the competition during a competitive tf2 game. I have simply downloaded it out of curiosity to test what these cheats are capable of. Appologise to all of the public players who’s game i’m might have spoilt during this brief encounter, Arx out.”

    Worth a ban?

  632. aves said:

    yes worth a ban

  633. Fragga: FRAGGA`s - RIP said:

    Why are you distancing public games from matches AcidReniX? Whether it be matches or publics I would expect the same action taken, immediate ban. It’s absolutely absurd that you seem to think leagues should allow known public cheaters to compete – I’m totally lost for words. Think of all the time and effort the admins would have to go through each and every time that player played an official

  634. fabetroma said:

    @God always look this :)
    http://www.noelshack.com/voir/130309/GODVAC080345.jpg
    I like when you give lessons to none cheaters while you are VAC BANNED :) <3

  635. Winneh: [s7] said:

    Yes, worth a ban !
    A lot of ppl want to test game hacks etc, because they are curious or just want to see how that works, what abilities aimbots have – whatever.

    But its a huge difference if u set up your own (lan) server and invite friends/add bots – or if you are willing to take the risk of getting your steamaccount banned by vac for using cheats on a public vac secured server (where they obviously dont want cheaters = vac enabled).

  636. andhraya: .:PBP:. said:

    is it wrote on etf2l rules?

  637. Winneh: [s7] said:

    Its called common sense tbh.

  638. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    As opposed to the amount of time they have to go through on Publics, PCWs and officials?? I’d rather the admins just divert their time to competitive matches, not waste time on catching the millions of public cheaters.

    If they are a _known_ cheater, and they cheat in an official, it would take 1 demo to catch them and ban them.

    You also don’t seem to be getting what I am trying to say. I don’t agree with cheaters, I don’t agree with public cheaters. I proposed a system where a player who is caught cheating once (on a public) is then put on some kind of alert status. This would mean they would be monitored in officials and even on publics (not all the time but on request). If they are caught cheating again, public or official, they would be PERMANENTLY banned, not just a one year thing.

    Why? This gives some leeway to people who have tried cheats for whatever reason, it could be movie making, curiosity, to help understand cheating mechanics to help identify them easier. This would still allow them to play fairly in competitive matches but if they were stupid enough to use the cheat again, they would receive a harsher punishment (this time for being a regular cheater). A player can use a cheat in a public one time, and still be able to and want to play competitive matches fairly.

    And why am I distancing public games from matches? Because people can do what they want for all I care. All I want is to be able to play in competitive matches fairly and someone cheating on a public server has no effect on that… At all. League rules are meant to be protecting the league. Why don’t you go ban every person in ETF2L who has a criminal record! I don’t want someone who has mugged someone, or vandalised something to play in ETF2L. Oh but wait… it has nothing to do with the league matches so it shouldn’t concern me… which it doesn’t.

  639. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    So Winneh, cheaters should always be punished…… unless they set up a private server and cheat.

    lol.

    People have argued that a player would download a cheat and test it to see if they could get away with it in league play. Surely they could do the exact same thing with a group of friends on a private server, infact, they could probably do it more effectively!

    The fact is, not everyone does that. Not everyone who uses a cheat wants to gain an advantage in competitive play. The league should be policing the competitive environment as that is what we have signed up here to play. Not the public one.

  640. ouch said:

    1.4.2 Cheats are not allowed
    maybe the league admins should add the sentence: either in offical matches nor public.

    but I guess that cheaters don’t give a **** about rule 1.4.2 anyway

  641. Rinorragi: Troopers said:

    Looks like my friend got a picture of stereotypical cheater:

    …..=++7ZZ$.
    ….:=+???I7$+7.
    ….:==Z8O7$$$I7?$..
    …:=====~~=++?Z$ZZ$. .
    …=~===?777$?=7$I8ZI..
    ..?:=?8Z?7$Z$$$OZ$77…
    …=~$$I+?~~+=III$ZZZ..
    …+7I??II$Z+=~??7?ZO.
    .:?????I7I7ZZ$7777OO..
    …I?+?7?7Z777$$ZOO$$7..
    ..$$$Z$$?I7IZ$$7ZZOZ. ..
    ZZ$ZZ7IIII??7?7?I..
    8DOI7OIZ8Z7$Z8?Z.
    D88DZZ$O$Z$O$7..
    ND88D888OOZ..
    . ……. .

  642. Rinorragi: Troopers said:

    Okey, somebody messed my picture, here is the correct one:

    ___________________________…..=++7ZZ$.
    ________________________….:=+???I7$+7.
    ____________________….:==Z8O7$$$I7?$..
    _________________…:=====~~=++?Z$ZZ$._.
    ______________…=~===?777$?=7$I8ZI..___
    ____________..?:=?8Z?7$Z$$$OZ$77…_____
    _________…=~$$I+?~~+=III$ZZZ..________
    ______…+7I??II$Z+=~??7?ZO.____________
    _____.:?????I7I7ZZ$7777OO.._____________
    _…I?+?7?7Z777$$ZOO$$7.._______________
    ..$$$Z$$?I7IZ$$7ZZOZ._..________________
    ZZ$ZZ7IIII??7?7?I.._____________________
    8DOI7OIZ8Z7$Z8?Z._______________________
    D88DZZ$O$Z$O$7..________________________
    ND88D888OOZ..___________________________
    ._……._._____________________________

  643. kolox: obs. said:

    Sure you sign up here to play the league, but will the league allow those who have cheated to come in and ruin it? If they show sympathy for this excuse, then how will they be able to tell in the future?

    Best way to prevent this is through things like this happening, to make sure people dont dare ‘try out’ the cheats in pubs again, which also protects the pub community..

    “I say cheating, you say sux”
    “Cheating”
    “sux”
    “Cheating”
    “sux”

  644. Haunter: DiG said:

    seriously arx, if any of my teamates cheated at some point, i would burn him alive for destroying the team and destroying his gamming future, and trust me i really like my team

    trying to deffend someone that cheated, just decreases ur reputation, u better stop giving arguments, i guess u already know that comunity isnt on ur side

  645. Winneh: [s7] said:

    There just has to be a line Renix, and i draw it between offline and online gameplay vs other ppl (not talking about lan events here ofc).
    We ban for 1 year, because we believe everyone deserves a 2nd chance.
    Banned ppl will ofc be monitored when their ban expires and they get back, but im not willing to ignore public cheaters who are reg. on etf2l just to have an eye on them 24/7 – i really cba watching all their demos every week.

  646. andhraya: .:PBP:. said:

    so, make it a rule… -_-

  647. Apom: BEC said:

    It’s a rule already (1.4.2 namely). The rule doesn’t explicitly state that cheating is forbidden EVERYWHERE, but as Winneh says, it’s called common sense.

  648. andhraya: .:PBP:. said:

    I’m just pragmatic….sorry bout that

  649. neO: L51 said:

    I agree with Arx’s last post, and it seems the different points of view about cheating in pcw/public/private expressed here aren’t very clear/defined and are just a matter of the weather being sunny or not the day it’s written.

    Btw what makes me really sad is the fact that we still don’t have one proof of anything.
    It was said earlier that it’s for a reason given in last news. I didn’t look after it because I don’t even want to know.

    Why ?
    Because there can’t be more good reasons to hide a proof than to show it.

    How do you call that again…

    Winneh: (League Admin) - [s7] said:
    March 24th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
    Its called common sense tbh.

    True

  650. waebi: ‹Con› said:

    for everyone still whining about proofs: No one at Valve gives a flying fuck about the guys who were VAC’d, proof is never there. And since ETF2L <3 Valve, they were like “let’s do it the same way.” Security through obscurity it’s called iirc.

    but in the end, #care. It wont change anything if you see a proof, right.

  651. kolox: obs. said:

    “we still don’t have one proof of anything.”

    Heliana admitted in his post that he did try to use hacks, if only just to ‘test them out’.

    Thing is, where do we draw the line between ‘testing them out’ and hacking repeatedly on a public server. Heliana could have hacked more times than that, that we just dont know about.

    Besides if you make that acceptable, then its saying to everyone else that its ok to hack on a public server ’till you get caught – if they end up getting a 1y ban for it, they can just argue that Heliana didnt get a ban for it.

    When you start to soften up on cheating, you create all sorts of loopholes and conditions…

    Best way to stop it is just to have a zero-tolerance attitude towards it, which the etf2l admins currently DO have.

  652. Winneh: [s7] said:

    neO u might want to have a look at this comment .

  653. Heliana said:

    Winneh im not a cheater …. , i have test a cheat one time in my life , its not like im playing everyday in public with a cheat lol , srsly my ban is stupid >> i have 29 hs in my life with the cheat , for 29 kill i need to be banned one years on etf2l ? i have just test i didnt want to ruin one server ….

  654. daf: yoyotech - Hey dats! said:

    “Er……… Don’t you see what is wrong with your post? You are basically saying cheaters should be banned under ALL circumstances………. except X X and X…. THEN you are saying that if you never intended on playing CS competitively, that’s fine to cheat!! So you are seperating competitive play from public play… Just as I have said.”

    Uh, I never said its fine to cheat in CS if you don’t intend to play it competitively… i meant, if you do cheat in a CS pub would you expect to be allowed to play in leagues? Of course not. So why should it be any different with TF2? And except X, X and X? I said if you have cheated in CS in the past then you shouldn’t be auto banned in TF2… that’s my opinion but that’s not even what we’re talking about. Where’s the X,X and X in that? Not once have I separated public play from competitive play… I have, in fact, consciously considered them the same light as the other. Cheating in a game is cheating in a game full stop.

    You’re whole response has been based on a misinterpreted point, which you were probably conscious of but went ahead and replied to anyway. Which makes it all null and void. You came back with a typically illogical and biased response and I have now judged you to be a lost cause and someone too caught up in his own bias to see any real truth. Ill leave you at it now… gogogo 1000!

  655. eoN^ said:

    To be honest the admins have made their decision and they havent changed it yet so how about we all have a nice cup of shut the hell up and get back to playing?

  656. kolox: obs. said:

    Agree with Eon, Heliana how should we know you only used it once? It’s only your word which quite frankly isn’t carrying much weight right now.

    Every cheater has to start somewhere (testing the cheats in a pub) and we cant tell the future, so do we know if you would have stopped after that? Who knows if, if you weren’t caught, you would have or wouldnt have carried on doing it till you were eventually caught. It’s just a shame for you that you were caught at such an early stage and will never be able to prove that you wouldnt have :x

    PS: It must have been pretty blatant hacking if you were caught within only 30 or so mins (29 headshots’ time?)

  657. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    kolox:

    “Sure you sign up here to play the league, but will the league allow those who have cheated to come in and ruin it?”

    Who would be ruining it? If he’s never cheated in a competitive match (and can prove he’s not cheating in future ones). You just emphisised my entire argument. He wouldn’t be ruining anything.

    What this is, is a punishment, not provention. A punishment for doing something totally unrelated to the league.

    Daf, why should someone who cheats in CS be allowed to be free in TF2? They are still a cheater and according to many people’s logic, would be much more likely to cheat in TF2. So why not ban them now to prevent then ever being able to cheat in TF2? If someone got VAC banned on VAC2, would they be banned in TF2? That VAC ban could mean they have cheated in CS:S, TF2, L4D and many other games. Who’s to say it was or wasn’t TF2?

    Misinterpreted?
    “Cheating should be punished 100% of the time, regardless of circumstance.”

    There is another way to interpret this?

    Let me put certain parts of your sentence in caps, to show you exactly what you wrote.

    CHEATING should be punished 100% of the time, REGUARDLESS OF CIRCUMSTANCE.

    So if a player has cheated in CS……….. HE SHOULD BE PUNISHED, 100% OF THE TIME, REGUARDLESS OF CIRCUMSTANCE. It is still competitive gaming. It is still the same sport as far as I’m concerned.

    This is your logic. I do not agree with it.

    My question to you is, why should a cheater be punished in competitive play, for cheating in non competitive play if they have always played competitive play fairly and without cheats?

    You are not protecting the competitive play because nothing wrong was done involving it. What you can use this for is to say ‘O.k, this guy has used a cheat before, let’s keep an eye on him’. That should be said for all vac banned players, all competitive cheaters who have served their years ban and all other players suspected. Why? To protect COMPETITIVE PLAY where everything to do with competition RELIES on people playing fairly.

    And Daf. Leave the personal issues out of it. I’m not here for you to try and judge my character. You don’t know me and as much as I really don’t care what you write about me, I don’t want to waste my time reading it. Keep on the issue on hand. Biased or non-biased, it’s still a valid argument.

  658. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    “To be honest the admins have made their decision and they havent changed it yet so how about we all have a nice cup of shut the hell up and get back to playing?”

    If the admins have made their decision, I want to see those rules written on the rules page. I want to see a specific set of rules reguarding Previous cheats, time scales, public, competitive, different games, different versions, different engines and the exact punishments for each.

    Why? Because I know/have/can get, a tonne of evidence from a lot more top tier players in this community relating to hacking in non competitive play and if a team mate of mine is being banned over something trvial, then I want to see the same punishment for those guys. Otherwise drop the double standards and overturn the ban.

  659. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    Oh and we are still playing. If people don’t want to reply, then don’t reply. No one is forcing you to.

  660. Zurike: cQr - cQr-HL said:

    just once time and u get AIDS

    gj admins

  661. Apom: BEC said:

    Regarding lack of evidence, incriminating demos regarding Flo’s case have been publicly posted elsewhere and they contain enough to justify the ban (of course he and his mates can keep claiming the opposite even when pointed at the exact STV ticks, in multiple cases in a single 35 minute video… but it’s their own credit they are degrading after all).

    And Heliana already admitted the deed so we pretty much have all the evidence we need.

  662. kolox: obs. said:

    “What this is, is a punishment, not provention.”

    So it’s not preventing him from cheating in future matches? I think it is since he’s effectively now unable to do it, and it will make others think twice about doing the same thing he did. This prevents Heliana from using cheats in matches (if he was actually going to), and also prevents others from thinking they can get away with doing the same thing.

    So really, by punishing, they were preventing it ;)

    Also it is not ‘totally unrelated to the league’ because once he has the cheats on his PC, it would be far too easy just to flick them on for a little while in a match which jeopardises the fair-play nature of the league – and as said before, the only sure-fire way you can know that he hasnt done this is to have been at his PC every time he plays, which I think it is safe to say you havent.

  663. RaCio: GoT² said:

    @AcidReniX,
    The whole point is that you will have to draw a line somewhere.
    Someone who had cheated in league matches will be banned. Someone who has cheated in sonic 40 years ago won´t. So somewhere between that there is a line. In etf2l´s case that is to ban all those who cheated in tf2 for 1 year.

  664. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    Then you could argue that by punishing players who are only suspects with no real proof would prevent them from cheating. You could ban everyone and then no one would be able to cheat.

    I think you missed the point I was making but what you said does make sense, so I won’t discredit it.

    He hasn’t used cheats in matches and there is no proof to suggest otherwise (there is proof to proove he hasn’t used them), yet he’s been banned from matches (where nothing occured) and not banned from public play (which relates to his offence allthough it is not possible for league admins to make this punishment).

    If someone can provide me with a solid reason as to why a player should be banned from competitive play over a public incident then I would drop this whole argument. So far the only things people have come up with are:

    Once a cheater, always a cheater (This is not true).
    He could be cheating in matches (Proof to proove otherwise).
    Public play is the same as competitive play (It isn’t because you can cheat on a public and still play fair in a match).
    He should be punished for cheating in publics therefore we are doing it (Why? it shouldn’t concern you if you are here for competitive matches, which you are).
    We are lazy to find out if he cheats in matches too, so we just banned (Irrelevant, evidence is not there).
    They cheat on publics to gain experience to cheat in league matches. (Not always true, there are many reasons).

  665. Wuff said:

    “of course he and his mates can keep claiming the opposite even when pointed at the exact STV ticks, in multiple cases in a single 35 minute video…”

    About which video is Apom talking? Does anyone have a link?

  666. neO: L51 said:

    “neO u might want to have a look at this comment .”

    If it was supposed to “show me the light at the end of the tunnel”, it kind of did quite the opposite but I still had a good time reading “Cons: – unproffessional”, during a second I imagined a justice court (ofc you’ll say no link) with the judge saying “erm guys, let’s just investigate yourselves for a proof while we stay professional and cut the presumed ch34t0rz head”

    It’s for sure better to stay “professional”, keep things hidden, ’til they leak from “elsewhere” c.f. apom’s last post about flo and payard’s case too.

    Anyway let’s play, cross our fingers and hope we don’t get banned for _ _ _ _ _ _
    (fill with one: making your brother test L4D, playing in a cybercafé, having used a cheat code in DBZ on Snes 10 years ago, using drugs irl, loving a man (cross both hands fingers) )

  667. Gobi: WSB? said:

    @ Arx : I 90% agree with you (some arguments are strange ;p ) People who are known for having cheated in an online fps should be ban “preventively”. Because they got experience and they can do it again anytime soon.
    @ Apom: You’re a cheat expert Apom I really would like to have your science, please teach me your secrets my master…
    Imho all I can see ( you can find the demos on the topic “best innocent fr”, who’s been locked and some posts deleted by admins) is a low/low+ scout trying desesperatly to kill… his ennemies, and we can’t say he’s doing it well.
    I confess I’m not a cheat expert too, so maybe he cheated but the doubt is here.
    Maybe it will be a good thing to give the evidence to other “neutral” league admins (esl,ukesa,ED…) and statute once and for all on the Flo’s case ( and I hope those admins will not lie to save etf2l ‘s admins credibility ).

  668. Mel: [QA] - Kvakkistansen said:

    IMO the people who cheat in public or competeive play should have been banned from TF2 itself (VAC2?), thus expelling them from ETF2L automatically. Cheating is more than breaking a single rule in a league, it’s more like breakin the law of gaming so were they do it is irrelevant.

    We need to remember it’s not a rigth to play in ETF2L.

    It’s a privilege!

  669. Fragga: FRAGGA`s - RIP said:

    AcidReniX “If someone can provide me with a solid reason as to why a player should be banned from competitive play over a public incident then I would drop this whole argument.”

    Because he used cheats, the worst possible online gamer crime, end of.

  670. AcidReniX: RaWr :: said:

    online gamer crime? lool? are you serious?

    The floor is still open to someone who isn’t a tard.

  671. Weirdz said:

    This “thread” have to be lock. The banned players => go pm admin and no more here !

  672. aeqvist said:

    NOOO COME ON! We are not Over 9000 YET!!!!!!!

    8328 posts left, keep em coming!

  673. jonni the juicy jew: [FB] said:

    everyone has voiced his opinion, thank you for that.
    Cursing eachother is not the way to go. any people that feel they need to complain more can find an admin on #etf2l.

  674. k1cked out - Arx interviewed — Northwave Gaming Association said:

    […] big surprise, as two former members of the team got cought cheating. According to the recent “cheat list” released by ETF2L, k1ck’s team captain Heliana and player Payard both used hacks in […]