ETF2L 4th Cup
Round 4
Scheduled:
Results submitted:
by sajh (jAgarna)
jAgarna
vs
Team Druidz
1 - 2
SteamID Screenshots: A
Warnings
- Team Druidz [Minor] Weren't able to finish a match due to doublebooking (on the date of Match Deadline).
55 Comments
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we can play tuesday or wednesday 20cet
sunday is probably the best day for us (11th), ill try to get my peeps together tomorrow and see.
sunday we can only play 20cet but we rather play tuesday or wednesday
sunday 11/1 20cet
cheers guys, and thanks to pace for setting this game up for me as i have been afk for a few days;)
relay @ 90.231.129.236:27020
missed both status and gravelpitscreen :(.. uploading the gravelpitdemo instead
turbine = def win for jAgarna
jAgarna agree to play 3rd map on another day so we don’t have to default another cup game. Then the admin says we have to default this one! well done admins
admins threw us out of the cup based solely on the story of jagarna :)
tried to arrange the game for 2 weeks, got no response from them, then in last week they can only play on sunday (deadline) but we alrdy got official at 21.15cet but ye okay i agree
after the 2maps we both agree to play 3rd map another time (nobody left before this ,we AGREED)
but ye we get thrown out :D
if they had said ‘we must play 3rd map now’, or that they cant play untill sunday we definetly had played the 3rd map then.
some admins just wanted to punish us no matter what cause they didnt even hear our story. The deadline was sunday but cc and ubersexuals were allowed to play today ?? So many games are played after deadline but we get punished ? And for no reason cause u can just as well throw jagarna out for giving us an ultimatum (only play on deadline day what was bad for us) and agreeing to play 3rd map another day. If we played it yesterday or tonight it would have been no problem but they didnt want to …
wat
GJ jagarna!
let druidz play the 3rd map so that the right team will advance in the cup! =)
wp jagarna, nice win imho. gratz and hope you win the cup.
some logs :
after we agreed on playing 3rd map other day and after our other official on sundya), i contacted jagarna asap and told them we had to play 3rd map asap. No response and on tuesday i get this:
[17:57:39] [swetur]: helloes, sorry I didn’t get back to you yesterday, did simply forget to. Anyhow, how about sunday 19 CET? unless the admins complains. we’re having hard times fielding a full-strength team and that’s why we’re booking official games on sudnays so… how’s that
[18:04:19] [DRz_skinnie]: we should play the match as soon as possible tbh .. but if u rlly cant play untill sunday..
[18:04:29] [swetur]: great
[18:20:30] [swetur]: should we make contact with the admins or just keep silent as long as possible until they ask us?
[18:21:23] [DRz_skinnie]: ill tell an admin
after my pcws i contacted DeneusBeer and he just said that were out of the cup without listening to our story :D
i think nobody can believe the admins are objective and fair towards us. Jagarna apparently told some admins that we walked out of the game (so theyre lying) and it seems they are happy to just believe it without hearing anyone from druidz or looking at demos. Another log :
[23:13:39] [@Mole`]: DRz_skinnie. Next time when you plan your games, you might want to consider that there may be a 3rd map and not end up walking out of a cup game :p
[23:15:47] [DRz_skinnie]: Mole` if u look at our matchpage u see i wanted to play waaaay before the deadline
[23:15:57] [DRz_skinnie]: before my first post i was contacting them for couple of days alrdy
[23:16:04] [DRz_skinnie]: they said we can only play that sunday
[23:16:09] [DRz_skinnie]: so i said ok but we have other official
[23:16:20] [DRz_skinnie]: and we both agreed after match to play 3rd map other time
[23:16:25] [DRz_skinnie]: and now were getting punished
[23:16:25] [DRz_skinnie]: :D
[23:17:12] [DRz_skinnie]: they didnt told us they couldnt play the day after or today
[23:17:33] [DRz_skinnie]: the rules of deadlines dont seem to apply for cc and ubersexuals
[23:17:36] [DRz_skinnie]: but for us they do ?
[23:17:38] [@Wlv]: lol
[23:17:41] [@Wlv]: thats a bad comment
[23:17:43] [@Wlv]: you walked out
[23:17:45] [@Wlv]: during a cup game
[23:17:46] [DRz_skinnie]: no
[23:17:50] [DRz_skinnie]: look man i have demos
[23:17:51] [@Wlv]: dont be so ignorant and over book yourself?
[23:17:52] [DRz_skinnie]: nobody walked out
[23:18:03] [DRz_skinnie]: we agreed to play other day
[23:18:05] [DRz_skinnie]: then we both left
[23:18:26] [DRz_skinnie]: that official was for sgl cup on dustbowl …
[23:18:33] [DRz_skinnie]: what do u think we preferred
[23:18:47] [@Wlv]: thesgl cup quite clearly?
okay
first off. “they didn’t hear our story”. I talked to you, you talked back, and explained what happened from your point of view, and gave arguments for it. I think that falls under hearing your story.
Anyway. After you played the first 2 maps, you agreed to something impossible, which was playing the last maps later. It’s fair to say both teams were wrong there, thinking they could play later, which obviously didn’t work, otherwise turbine had been played by now. If i want to blame anyone for that, i blame both teams.
That out of the way, Druidz had to leave to play another scheduled match, which was scheduled 75 minutes after this one, where jAgarna didn’t. So that was the only reason the match wasn’t played out. And that is excatly why we’ve given the default win to jAgarna.
Team Admin to win the cup!
so, basicly u are punnishing us, because we had a game scheduled, even tho we would play jagarna if they didnt accept to play in another day
whats with all the lying admins…
deneusbeer i PMed u (i told to jagarna i was gonna contact an admin; they just wanted to play the map without contacting any of u) and just told u we agreed on playing 3rd map another day and that jagarna can only play on sunday. Then u said yes i have to give jagarna a default win. I wouldnt call this listening to our story ??
jagarna or us have about 2 weeks to play 30mins turbine + the next game of the cup … but ye admins just want some attention i guess ?
you’re just making fun of yourself skinnie. Poor straight through; and for what it matters to the rest of you thinking the same as skinnie does, whereas it’s j fault or not. Say whatever you may think is right, but without any info about this you should really step out of it as it’s none of your business. And eventually neither j’s business, as we were capable of playing the whole game. We thought we did a nice gesture to let them play the game, obviosuly we did wrong. We’d still like to play that third map so basically, if the chance would be given we still would, but j remains the same and by telling us we did something wrong, by saying we’re liars, accusing us for whatever it might be, you can shove it up somewhere the sun wont reach.
By doublebooking and yet accepting the challenge, how should we be aware you had another cupgame by then? Honestly, think about it. You’re actually flaming us for something you’ve created yourself skinnie. I can’t say you deserve to loose on w.o, as it’s not in our interrest in winning on w.o against a higher rated team. Then again, we did tie you and prooved ourselves being a worthy opponent and were, once again, capable of playing when the date was set.
I’m not defending the admins either as it’s their decission to make whether the cup should be able to go on as usual or not.
Enough said, cut the crap whereas we would be the sinners.
Just let em play the third map so the true winners can go through, pretty simple you would have thought. Both teams were in the wrong.
Acutally that’s true. we did wrong in accepting them to leave.
the admins say we walked out of our cup game before anyone of us talked to them or before they watched any demos. So its either the admins just trying to punish us or u lying ? its easy as that cause we didnt walk out ..
U werent planning to tell any of the etf2l admins about this. Only after I told i was gonna contact an admin, u or another one from jagarna went to an admin and told ‘your’ story ?
i didnt arrange that game with u, i only talked to u after our match for the 3rd map ? U told me yourself ure not the one who arranges matches and u didnt arrange the match with me. So don’t tell me u didn’t know we had another cupgame cause i told it to pace or sahj (not sure) .( the guy i arranged the match with in the first place )
druidz and jagarna both want to play 30mins of turbine and there is plenty of time to do so. Just throwing us out of the cup would just once again show the capabilities of the etf2l admins
Ok, then it’s a lack of communication, you’re right; I wasn’t the one booking it with you so i can’t know.
I personally havn’t spoke to an admin, what I pasted to you was a conversation between deneus and sajh and as you weren’t able to speak by then, we had to speak to him. I asked if you could spare 10 minutes but no answer, as you were playing a game.
I still want to know, do you find j being guilty in this “drama”. As for the record, j don’t want to be put in the corner of shame for actually doing nothing wrong, except letting you leave the server for another game. as you say, we do want to play the map but whether we’re capable of it or not, isn’t my business.
Fucking played Jag. That’s a fantastic result for you guys. I’m not sure what it is, I just knew you’d win. Good luck in the next round.
gl Jägarna!
@skinnie, we did not attempt to force a w.o
here is what started the discussion with the admins today
[19:03:47] your match against druidz, is it done yet?
[20:13:35] swetur and skinnie are scheduling it
[20:14:43] uhm i’m sorry
[20:14:52] but the results have to be entered tonight
[20:15:16] and no, not one day later
(and yes, i “censured” the admin to keep the flaming at a minimum)
It is indeed unfortunate that we were unable to field a compitetive team during this week, hence you and swetur attemtped to schedule it for this following sunday, however this would cause the cup to be delayed.
It would have been in our interest to play turbine directly after fastlane, as the team spirit and momentum of jÄgarna were at an all time high due to the fact that we had outperformed out own wildest expectations. I did not realize that you prioritized this league over the other official game, if I would have been clear on that we would asked to finish the game there and then. It was only recently when I saw haunter mentioning this I realized that it would have been possible for you to forfeit your other league game to finish the game with jÄgarna.
I can take the blame for not being fully aware of the importance of the deadline of this round, which is why I assumed there would not be a problem allowing you to play your other official game and finishing our game later the following week. And you did indeed tell me that this sunday (11th) was not the best of days for you, but it was not clear to me that you only had 60 minutes to play. In my eyes the part of this that is on you is that you dedicated too little time for a potential 3-map game, instead of telling us this when scheduling or asking us to start at 19.00 instead.
If wanted I can provide full logs of our discussions with admins, as well as the scheduling discussion between me skinnie and the demos showing the ingame discussion. If you mentioned the 60-minute limit, or asked to start at 19.00 when talking to pace, I appologize for the mess as I do not fully know which agreements were made between skinnie and pace.
[20:24:37] [swetur]: dude
[20:24:38] [swetur]: available
[20:24:39] [swetur]: ?
[20:24:48] [swetur]: there’s a problem I believe
[20:25:20] [swetur]: so if you can take a moment, like 10mins, that would be good.
[21:04:39] [DRz_skinnie]: yes ?
[22:34:36] [DRz_skinnie]: rlly nice m8
i answered 30mins later (was playing pcws) and 1h30mins later deneusbeer just told me we were out of the cup. I blame the admins for making this decision based only on your story. They must realise they made a wrong decision by now ?! But i understand they dont want to admit this. They say we left the server but u and i know we agreed on playing the 3rd map another day. And yes it was stupid because it was beyond the deadline (but we both didnt think about that at that time ) . Tho it seems that other teams (like cc and ubersexuals) can play their game after the deadline without any problem …
quoting dnb –
“okay
first off. “they didn’t hear our story”. I talked to you, you talked back, and explained what happened from your point of view, and gave arguments for it. I think that falls under hearing your story.”
reading both parts i think its only admin’s fault dealing with the situation, both teams were wrong cause of the deadline, i agree till here, giving default win to jagarna because of the reason meantioned before, doesnt even make sense, we can have 50 games booked for the same hour its hour business to deal with it not your, our solution was asking jagarna to change the day (even tho we didnt know the rules), we kept in mind that we would play the etf2l cup if it wasnt possible to postpone
and some other issues come from here:
1st) there were some other teams playing the cup game this week if there’s rules should apply to everyone
2nd) both teams apparently want to play, and druidz can play in any day of this week, any time, im sure jagarna can find a suitable day, and its just 30min cant really blow ur system
3rd) its better for the image of the league, to have winners that really wins games, and not default winners
cheers
again … wlv u were all happy about us being kicked and u said yourself u had nothing to do with it so stay out
like i said i contacted deneusbeer, said 3 sentences : is it a problem if we play the 3rd map sunday cause we both agreed on playing on another day and jagarna says they can only play sunday. And he just said yes thats a serious problem i’ve given jagarna a default win. (so he alrdy made up his mind before i talked to him). I can show u the logs but its in dutch!
Sigh, yes delighted that we don’t have to face you in the next round etc, if I had any incline that you would not see any humour/sarcasm in my comment I probably wouldn’t have said anything.
ah yes u joined imperial. Now i realise why u were so quick on calling me ignorant, stating that we just walked out of the official & that i didnt tell the truth to deneusbeer
According to the admin comments, you schedualed your game with nervous for 70mins after this one begun, meaning that you assumed you would win on the first 2 maps, as 3 maps =’s a minimum of 90mins (give or take a little as one map was gravel..). That is ignorant.
By walking out of the game, I meant left the server, not like literally one sec there one sec gone. Did I say you lied? No I said you hadn’t told DNB the full story (confirmed by all the comments in the etf2l channel and by DNB’s comments).
I shouldn’t have lol’d at haunter, but he did call us all idiots, in most places you’d get told to foad for that :/
i didnt call idiot to anyone… i told u are a joke AFTER u lol’d at me, which lets say wasnt really a good behaviour from an admin.
– again … saying that we would assume it would only takes 2 maps shows your lack of understanding in this matter. That nervous game was planned waay before and i told jagarna this but because it was THE ONLY DAY they could play i said yes … so knowing that we had an official jagarna wanted to play anyway
– i wouldnt call both teams leaving the server, after agreeing on playing the 3rd map another day, walking out of the game
– i told deneusbeer the full story but he told me immediatly he kicked us out of the cup. After that i told him the whole story but it didnt seem to matter as u all still keep giving the same wrong arguments based on your own assumptions or jagarna’s story
so basically we did jagarna a favor and now we get stabbed in the back for it
True actually take what i said back, I lol’d after you said it was our fault you got defaulted vs
*- i asked deneusbeer if we could play the 3rd map on sunday but he told me immediatly he kicked us out of the cup. After that i told him the whole story but it didnt seem to matter as u all still keep giving the same wrong arguments based on your own assumptions or jagarna’s story
make an edit button ffs
I dont really see a problem here.. both of the teams agree they would like to play the 3rd map and there is plenty of time to do this yet admins refuse to? :( ridicilous… (out before 2nd major warning for going against the mighty power of etf2l admins)
I’m not going to make Neusbeer happy by saying this, but after talking to him im going to say i agree with Skinnie.
Neusbeer argument is that it is basicly Druidz fault that the match had to be rescheduled. After all, if they didn’t have another match scheduled that night there would have been no problem. So if we look at it very basic, it is Druidz fault that the 3th map could not be played before the deadline.
Skinnie’s argument that Druidz could have played the match alot sooner doesn’t matter, as you have agreed to play it on sunday this can not be taken into account.
Now, i have not seen the conversation between the two teams after the 2nd map since i have not seen the demo’s but it is reasonable to assume that Druidz asked jAgarna if it was ok with them to reschedule the 3th map as they were the team that had to go. This also means that Druidz initiated the problem.
When asked ingame, a team is very likely to agree and not immediately notify the other team of the problems this might create or go out of game in order to ask an admin for advice. Maybe the asked team even believes that the asking team have consulted with the admins.
However, as the log posted by sajh shows jAgarna was told “but the results have to be entered tonight” “and no, not one day later”. As this was told before the rescheduling of the 3th map had taken place jAgarna should have known that it was not ok to reschedule the final map. This gets reinforced by another log posted by Skinnie where swetur says “should we make contact with the admins or just keep silent as long as possible until they ask us?”
Other arguments such as, a decision being made to fast by the admins, what admins might or might not have said what, when jAgarna is able to play a match or who couldn’t contact who after the mistake was made don’t really matter.
Considering this, it is clear that both team were both equally in fault.
If it is still possible to play the 3th map without to much damage to the cup deathline, this would be the best option. If not both teams should be punnished equal and both teams should be removed from the cup.
Anyway, this is my view on things. But since i have no say in this matter do with it what you want. Just thought a neutral view on things might help.
Seeing as none of the teams actually messed up more than the other, I would like to propose a settlement. If ok by the admins, jÄgarna would very much still like to play turbine. But under the current circumstances we can only play this game on Sunday, as stated before.
If the game is played by Sunday, and both Druidz and jÄgarna make an effort to schedule a possible quarter final game vs Imperial next week, then the cup would still be on schedule. It should not be impossible for us to find a team which would be suitable for all 3 teams.
I am not too fond of “winning” a game on W.O to be honest, and I am pretty sure that Druidz isn’t satisfied with losing one either. I do expect Druidz to come out on top if the last map is played on the 18th, but I think we probably would have had a psychological advantage at turbine if played as initially scheduled (at the 11th) as we were pretty much on the top of our game.
So, if possible we would still like to have a go at turbine, but will only be able to this on Sunday.
@Hathor: short notice, that log pasted by my came from a conversation with the admins yesterday, not at Sunday when the actual game was played. So neither team expected it to be a problem to reschedule it when we were playing as far as I know.
Let them play! Even a serious league can leave room for mistakes. Although i do like how admins keep to their rules, but sometimes rules can hurt more than heal, so some flexibility would be good, and let both teams keep their honor.
Also, ive looked but could not find the deadlines for the cup games. What about the accusations that CC and Übr were allowed to play after deadline? I didnt see any replies to it. Maybe i missed it.
There was also the time when a certain div 1 match had missing screenshots for 24 hours without being warned, while a certain div 3 game was warned for missing screenshot after 20 minutes. Long time ago, all the way back in 2008.
Good league tho. Best in town.
complicated…. so jagarna won one map? druidz another? and third was defaulted?
we won gpit 2-1, they won fastlane 1-0 , and so the discussion is about the 3rd map turbine yes
ah sucks, play it then…this match will definately have alot of publicity around it :D lookin forward to it
where is the matter both teams wanna play this match, so let them play. You admins have now more time invested for talking here in this discussion than let them 30 mins playing. Like Skinnie said they can play at any time in the last Days of this week. So why you couldnt let them play? Maybe time for an vote at this place:
Should the 3th map being played?
My vote is definitifly YES
so both teams wonna play on sunday, only the admins left to confirm that we may.
seems we got the thumbs up from the admins to play this game. We have a game at 20.30 at Sunday, so sometime before that would probably be best for us.
Ill contact skinnie tonight.
Woo!
fyi
[20:11:32] would 21.00 work for you fellas?
[21:03:29] no sorry 19 or 20cet
[21:15:11] ok, 20.00 sounds good enough
[21:15:28] k
arr, nicks kind of disappeared, but you get the picture:P
Ahh, good to see this will still be played. Good luck to both teams!
gg chaps, seems i forgot the screenshot as usual though.
[j] <3