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Roll-outs...enlighten me.
Created 19th July 2012 @ 09:52
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So I need something to talk about when bored in work and it’s quiet around here, so can we have a chat about roll-outs?
No…? gtfo my thread then…
Yes…? Read on.
So how many roll-outs does your team have for badlands?
Is it more than for every other map or do you have loads of variation even on new(ish) maps like snakewater?
How often do you mix it up in a match?
Do you stick with one that seems to work against a particular team or do you switch it up even if it goes really well?
How do you adapt for the next round if it goes wrong at mid? (this is obviously very situational, but any examples of successful changes you’ve pulled off would be gratefully received)
Adapt on the fly or set in stone positions?
Anything else you wanna mention?
Just interested…(and hoping for some new ideas too…ahem)
Feel free to mention what level your team plays at as well.
On this note, on Badlands apparently the Americans go valley as default rollout, is this true? If so, why is not true in EU?
Thinking about it, we (Trick17 Black) don’t really have any set rollouts, It’s more like: Demo says what he wants to do, Roamer (me) says what he is going to do (initiate somewhere our demo can take advantage of or w/e) and the rest adjusts accordingly.
I guess that naturally mixes stuff up.
about the NA badlands valley standard, I bet it is not the EU standard, because of the overall more defensive playstyle and the comfort of being able to pull back to choke if things go wrong.)
There is one team in prem who really goes valley rollout 75+% of the team. I think it’s Epsilon, but don’t quote me on that. They love doing their rollout underneath with a demo+soldier into enemy slope/valley, or play with their medic from enemy shithouse. The rest of the high level teams really mix it up a lot with demo-from-house strategies.
I guess there are 4 or 5 different rollouts in general.
1. “normal” – Where you let the demo, soldiers and medic go from house, 1 scout shithouse and 1 scout your valley. Roamer goes aggressive from the getgo either from house entrance or balcony.
2. “little less normal” – Basically the same, but with the roamer going through valley, which seems to be the standard rollout for a lot of teams nowadays. It gives the roamer more options and is less predictable for the enemy.
3. “standard valley” – Demoman goes balcony, soldiers and medic from valley, scout still regular positions. It allows for either massive pressure from the soldiers, or you let the demoman drop out and go super aggressive on the point.
4. “aggressive valley” – You let the demoman jump the enemy train and follow up with soldiers. Depending on the enemy strat, your medic goes with a soldier to enemy shithouse OR through your valley to mid with the shithouse scout.
5. “the epsilon strat” – For the lack of a better term, I saw them do this often the first. You rollout your demoman and soldier and valley scout through the enemy valley with your own medic. Roam a soldier in, hit them as they come out of house (as the demo can have 3-4 sticks at the house as the medic exists).
There’s some variations to these 5, but I think these are the basics everyone seems to use nowadays (in europe). If it goes wrong, do something else. Depending on the enemy carry, you can adapt your strategy slightly – focus the demo instead of the med, for example.
If something works in an official, do it again. Especially when you’re behind. I remember a div 3 official I played like 4-5 months ago when we were 1-4 behind on gullywash and ended up winning like 5-4 or 6-4 because we did the same mid over and over again.
Right, now I’m gonna stop talking. I just woke up and felt like an essay :D Enjoy your time at work!
– Pledge
Quoted from ThePledge
There is one team in prem who really goes valley rollout 75+% of the team. I think it’s Epsilon
Quoted from CrashSite
On this note, on Badlands apparently the Americans go valley as default rollout, is this true? If so, why is not true in EU?
Gunboats makes medic coming out of house far too easy to kill.
Quoted from Monkeh
[…]
Gunboats makes medic coming out of house far too easy to kill.
That doesn’t make sense, NA roamers reach mid as fast as EU roamers, and they both get ~300 hp before they jump, the only difference is that the NA roamer will have +25 more hp or so, and NO SHOTGUN (and the fact he can jump again and again with ease, but now thats irrelevant to killing the medic coming out of house right?)
Last edited by Mercyless,
Unlocks thread?
yeah Mercy…
(When I’ve watched US I’ve seen the GB solly actually waiting for the enemy medic because he can jump twice, like a little bitch, out of spawn and be halfway up the stairs of main before the other solly has gotten out of the doors*, so there, plus the fact he can get out again easily with his 9 health rocket jumps certainly isn’t irrelevant :p )
Also, cheers pledge, nice reading. I am now less bored at work, wahoo.
*this maybe a slight exaggeration
Last edited by Monkeh,
Quoted from Mercyless
[…]
That doesn’t make sense, NA roamers reach mid as fast as EU roamers, and they both get ~300 hp before they jump, the only difference is that the NA roamer will have +25 more hp or so, and NO SHOTGUN (and the fact he can jump again and again with ease, but now thats irrelevant to killing the medic coming out of house right?)
Have to disagree, the valley route can be done much quicker with the extra jumps available to an NA roamer, making the NA roamer faster..probably arriving with similar health to EU roamer after jumping more.
NA roamer can be on the enemy balcony by the time the medic arrives in house
source: some technosex video
Quoted from atmo
NA roamer can be on the enemy balcony by the time the medic arrives in house
source: some technosex video
Those are very specific and rare situations, much like the demoman jumping their bridge
Quoted from ThePledge
5. “the epsilon strat” – For the lack of a better term, I saw them do this often the first. You rollout your demoman and soldier and valley scout through the enemy valley with your own medic. Roam a soldier in, hit them as they come out of house (as the demo can have 3-4 sticks at the house as the medic exists).
YES! This is quite possibly one of the best roll-outs in the game. It is just SO effective!
I learned this roll-out roughly a year ago when wai joined my team and I’ve been sharing it with many others since.
p.s. it’s called “nigger surprise”
Quoted from Kaneco
[…]
Those are very specific and rare situations, much like the demoman jumping their bridge
It’s a lot less riskier than jumping your demo to their bridge, your roamer can spam straight down on them if they go valley or trap them in the house for an extra 3 seconds even if he has to bail and he can still jump back if he gets overwhelmed.
Quoted from herpderp
[…]
It’s a lot less riskier than jumping your demo to their bridge, your roamer can spam straight down on them if they go valley or trap them in the house for an extra 3 seconds even if he has to bail and he can still jump back if he gets overwhelmed.
That’s a joke right? the roamer will be spotted before the combo reaches valley by the valley scout or the demo, and then one sticky and some chip damage from the scattergun and he’ll die instantly (hey a free pick!) and honestly if you let a half hp soldier trap you in house for three seconds without killing him instantly then you suck and you deserve to be trapped, all it takes is for one of the soldiers to shoot the floor under him for 80 damage and then a scout will finish him off (considering the demo/scout haven’t done that already) and on top of that, you’ll see him on your way when walking across the small wooden bridge, and then you could easily jump on him.
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