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cp_obscure_remake_rc1 - Need a Mapper
Created 4th August 2009 @ 15:16
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Just played remake_b2 in a scrim.
First let me say I think obscure_final is an awesome map & didn’t need “remade”.
Having said that I think the 2nd & mid points on remake are an upgrade on the original.
But (and it’s a huge but) the 1st point & lobby area between 1st & 2nd are horrendous. They are both simply far too big & lobby is too convoluted. If you lose 2nd point you may as well just stay in spawn & let the opposition cap last so you can roll out again as the odds of pushing out from last without a full wipe of the opposition are ridiculous.
Merging the mid & 2nd points of this remake with the last & lobby of the original would make a far better map.
Other problems:
spawn times are far too low compared to original & other maps.
spawn times are bugged in that you can forward cap & your respawn timer gets increased.
no announcer messages when points are being capped in either direction.
In its current state I think we should stick with the cp_obscure_final rather than any remake beta for the next ETF2L season.
The old last was too hard to attack, so that needed addressing.
What do you mean spawn times too low?
If you spawn back at cp1, you get faster spawns, in order to counteract the longer time it takes to get out of spawn. That bonus is reversed to the default spawn time, when you have mid and spawn at cp2.
I will put the announcer messages, forgot those.
I’m too happy to see that obscure will probably be in the map pool to want a beta remake.
The map is too much different for me.
Quoted from Malibu Stacey™
Just played remake_b2 in a scrim.
First let me say I think obscure_final is an awesome map & didn’t need “remade”.
Having said that I think the 2nd & mid points on remake are an upgrade on the original.
But (and it’s a huge but) the 1st point & lobby area between 1st & 2nd are horrendous. They are both simply far too big & lobby is too convoluted. If you lose 2nd point you may as well just stay in spawn & let the opposition cap last so you can roll out again as the odds of pushing out from last without a full wipe of the opposition are ridiculous.
Merging the mid & 2nd points of this remake with the last & lobby of the original would make a far better map.Other problems:
spawn times are far too low compared to original & other maps.
spawn times are bugged in that you can forward cap & your respawn timer gets increased.
no announcer messages when points are being capped in either direction.In its current state I think we should stick with the cp_obscure_final rather than any remake beta for the next ETF2L season.
That is interesting, as last is less hard to defend than granary and the area from spawn to cp2 is less distance too, not sure if you’ve fired the gun too early and not realized the mechanics of the maps, so far I’ve not encountered your problems in the pug2 test we’ve done for it…
Your other problems are not related in the slightest because the spawn times on last are to equal out the distance one has to travel from spawn to the point on last for example. The announcer will be fixed, however if you’ve played granary or badlands infact any other map coldfront etc, you will notice that when the enemy team cap usually adds +7..
cp1 on the old obscure was as stale as bread you find after 5 months. Last cp I feel and many others believe it’s fast paced and defenders have ample chances to defend, playing 1 or 2 scrim’s on it is not enough justification to come out with such an opinion until you’ve moulded into the map and got used to it.
This applies to all not just malibu.
Cheers
Byte
Last edited by byte,
when i played it last weekend i felt like it takign ages to counter a team on it cause runways are so far its not rly for nice speed gaming. imo it takes to long to push back from 2nd to mid and cap it then other team is def. respawned then and can take positions on 2nd.
but which i feel as a – is also sometimes a big + so dunno how to rate it tbh.
but hope in the coming season that this map will be played :).
thx for all the effort so far byte.
Played just the one game last night, have to say that whilst it ended up 2-2 with a 20 minute round, it’s a big improvement over _final, especially last. However, 2->3 and vice versa is still very difficult to push either way, and there was a long stalemate there, with neither team pushing because it’s so difficult to do damage in such a flat open space that its much better if you just defend (to me at least).
Last edited by Wabbeh,
Quoted from Vince
What do you mean spawn times too low?
If you spawn back at cp1, you get faster spawns, in order to counteract the longer time it takes to get out of spawn. That bonus is reversed to the default spawn time, when you have mid and spawn at cp2.
This is stupid, don’t do this.
Quoted from byte
[…]
Your other problems are not related in the slightest because the spawn times on last are to equal out the distance one has to travel from spawn to the point on last for example. The announcer will be fixed, however if you’ve played granary or badlands infact any other map coldfront etc, you will notice that when the enemy team cap usually adds +7..
Cheers
Byte
This is incorrect, forward spawns always have shorter respawn wave times than the original spawns. Quite like on A/D maps where the attacking team has shorter spawntimes than defenders, the ones losing mid will have longer spawntimes than the attackers.
also what Mark said.
Last edited by choiie,
Quoted from choiie
[…]
This is incorrect, forward spawns always have shorter respawn wave times than the original spawns. Quite like on A/D maps where the attacking team has shorter spawntimes than defenders, the ones losing mid will have longer spawntimes than the attackers.
also what Mark said.
What? The usual maps just give an advantage for capping 4th (so does obscure). Gullywash is 10 everywhere iirc. You get an advantage in running distance, same thing here.
http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Respawn_times#Granary (also note fastlanes very odd behavior :) )
It is adjusted because the way out of spawn is so long, so it adjusts for the running distance. I wouldn’t have made the spawn like that, but the respawn time has to be like that with a spawn like this. It’s a bit of a buff to scouts and a nerf to heavies, but that’s not bad enough to redo the spawn completely.
Last edited by Vince,
The announcer will be fixed, however if you’ve played granary or badlands infact any other map coldfront etc, you will notice that when the enemy team cap usually adds +7..
So your team can be capping mid point when the enemy have it (you own 2 cap points) & be waiting to respawn. Timer is ticking down. Your team cap mid (you now own 3 cap points) & suddenly your respawn timer resets to a higher number & starts ticking down again.
That happens on “granary or badlands infact any other map coldfront etc” does it? Because it happens when you cap mid on cp_obscure_remake_b2.
Last edited by Malibu Stacey™,
I guess the only problem would be that it would be better if your team finished capping just after you spawned since you would then forward spawn and be faster than if they capped earlier.
When you finally finish this map and having something you’re happy with, just give it a new name… :P Perhaps cp_abstruse?
Btw remake looks nice.
what about cp_nosnow? :D
I like most of the new … features, however I must admit I haven’t played it enough to talk about balance problems. First impression is *thumbs up*
well the only thing I am worried about is the long tunnel between cp 2 an 3, but well… not a big deal after all.
Hi boys and girls
cp_obscure_remake_b3 is out now, capture point 2 has now a focal point for defenders to hold along with attacking soldiers to try and pester the medic (a bit like cp3 -> cp2 badlands choke) see how it plays and let me know.
I took note about the lobby area being really hard to be connected to the team due to only 1 set of stairs being available to get to the top, now I’ve added a 2nd set of stairs to get there and it works out pretty well too.
Last has been extended in length so that 1 rocket jump from a soldier doesn’t reach the point, as it should be 1.5rj’s!
Will try and get it into pickup channels as soon as I get some rest from this LAN.
Many thanks to Vince once again.
.::. Download here .::.
http://fakkelbrigade.eu/byte/obscure.zip
Cheers
Byte
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