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i dont think its a slow map at all… give it some time and with ppl learning it im sure movements and pushes and counters will be more effective than atm. Ive made at least 6-7 rounds a couple of times on this map

what? that’s not what you were talking about at all…

Quoted from Randdalf

[…]

It’s an impossibility, you always respawn with full health.

yes, i know that, that’s why i was wondering when i said: “it’s more or less impossible” and Arnold replied: “no, it’s not.” well… maybe he just understood my idea wrong.

Quoted from F2

[…]

I have to agree with this.

The three last times I’ve played obscure with idk, it always ended 2-0.

The last two times we played obscure, we played granary/badlands afterwards, which ended 7-2 and 5-5.

So in my experience with the map, obscure is a low-scoring map. Then you can argue whether that’s bad or good — or whether it’s just a matter of inexperience on the map.

If you like fast rounds and agressive play, this is bad.

Two of my biggest complaints of the map are:
1) Its very hard to get an advantage on this map.
2) Even if you have an advantage, its way too hard to push through the chokes and finish the round.

Obscure has really small chokepoints. Both ways between cap 2 and 3 are much too narrow. They need to be wider and higher. Now, its hardly possible to come out of that narrow spam point with a lot of stickytraps. You are either spammed too dead, run in a stickytrap or simply juggled. Its impossible to get through without an uber. So the game only comes alive every 40 seconds when both teams have uber. So greatly slowing down the game. It has effect on both of my complaints. Without an advantage, its impossible to push through those chokes and get a pick or kill the medic. With a small player advantage, the heavy chokes make sure its still very tricky to push out.

On the other hand, there are no real positional advantages. On granary, attacking from garage makes flanks from the balcony possible, while the defending team can backcap from dropdown. Same for badlands resup. Easy acces to balcony for attackers or backcap for defending team. So there are possiblities to get a pick on those flanks or simply achieve a positional advantage. Obscure obviously lacks those. One thing is sure. When you enter cap 2 or 3, you enter from low level. Its very hard to roam and get a pick. So it isnt possible to exploit weaknesses in the defense of the opponent.

But also the lack of height and terrain. When having the advantage, those will accelerate the outcome of the battle. Having a disadvantage on badlands/granary middle, you will lose the train or crate. The team with disadvantage will be outspammed on the tiny room on or besides the spire or besides the trains. Or on granary on the sides of the crates and the second point is also very narrow. Obscure lacks terrain and height, so it isnt easy to make a lot of kills when having the advantage.

This will lead to defensive play where the team who takes the most risks will lose. This maps promote defensive play, so its not fun to play. The reason why i like tf2 is the agressive play, strategy and teamwork. Those elements make badlands and granary so popular.

I love this map. It may play slower than other maps but I find this much more enjoyable. Fights on this map have to actually be fought, instead of constant spam. The only part I would change is perhaps the buildings connecting cp2-cp3 on the far side. They seem quite basic compared to the rest of the map, scout vs scout duels become quite dull there.

Other than that, people complain that they want new maps different to granlands then complain when a new map different to granlands is made. I believe that once people begin to get more accustomed to obscure then we’ll see the gameplay speed up a tad.

Dont see why people are complaining about small choke points, one of the most popular maps granary has exactly the same kind of setup from middle >choke>2nd, ie small choke points easily spammable, but you dont see peopel complaiing about 2-0 game and how its impossible to play agressive :D.

I think its people’s lack of experience on the map or lack of skill :)

As someone previously mentioned in the NA pugs it is rarther slow and can take over an hour (everytime ive played it there) for someone to finally get 5 points, that is more to do with the quality of players and as mentioned above lack of experience and tactics on the map imo than any fault with the map.

I like most of it, dont like mid as spammed to fuck as medic when I leave house but meh what map dont you :) so cant complain.

Quoted from Waster

its hardly possible to come out of that narrow spam point with a lot of stickytraps. You are either spammed too dead, run in a stickytrap or simply juggled. Its impossible to get through without an uber. So the game only comes alive every 40 seconds when both teams have uber. So greatly slowing down the game. It has effect on both of my complaints. Without an advantage, its impossible to push through those chokes and get a pick or kill the medic. With a small player advantage, the heavy chokes make sure its still very tricky to push out.

im gonna be as gay as byte and say sigh, cuz u obviously havent played this map close to enough, or ur just phail

Apart from it being really quite slow…

PLEASE
PLEASE

just make that entire first floor class-changable…