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cp_obscure_remake_rc1 - Need a Mapper
Created 4th August 2009 @ 15:16
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Quoted from Adiemus
I undoubtedly appreciate the efforts put for the creation of this map but current version is simply terrible. Forcing people to play it in the league does not help at all, in contrast leads to inevitable frustration and discouragement.
Quick feedback:
– Bigger is definitely not better.
– Too crowded.It feels like playing an MMORPG.
Wasn’t forced was poll’ed for.
Cheers
Byte
That’s still being forced onto the people who didn’t vote for it. Plus we’ve established that the vote wasn’t even that accurate – lots of people voted for obscure thinking it was the original, and some people voted for 6 maps instead of 5 (picking obscure to fill out the numbers), because they thought they had to pick 6.
It’s better than the old obscure. But it still blows. The only thing I sort of like is the middle, but if I want to play on a map with a big bridge I’ll play badlands. Last point is silly. It’s like you had no idea what to do and just slapped a tower in the middle. It doesn’t allow for the typical tf2 push with uber and force followed by a clean fall back due to the layout (only 2 doorways that are hard to get out of when you get spammed and juggled, 3 if you can’t the stairs but that’s even more impossible to fall out of. 2nd point is to big and I always feel that I’m spending more time running around trying to get somewhere than actually playing the game. A map like gully has much smaller distances but the smart layout makes it not a quicker map. There is a sense of tension on that map, which this clearly lacks.
/rant.
Quoted from Mark
That’s still being forced onto the people who didn’t vote for it. Plus we’ve established that the vote wasn’t even that accurate – lots of people voted for obscure thinking it was the original, and some people voted for 6 maps instead of 5 (picking obscure to fill out the numbers), because they thought they had to pick 6.
5 map pool is way better yea. I don’t get this need that we MUST have 6 maps :S.
Last edited by Koeitje,
I kinda liked the old obscure, and voted thinking it would be that map. It’s not a bad map, but could do with some improvements.
Pushing onto last is really hard as you have to get quite forward to even see what they have there. A bulletproof window on top looking over last would be really helpful. Badlands has main and a window. Gran has open window and low pipe. Gully has main and a window. Obscure has right side.
2nd point is annoying compared to last version. The rocks on the right (attacking) block any view of the point. I guess it’s an attempt to replicate the badlands resup area, but it really doesn’t help. If the nearest rock was removed it would help things out a lot. A small ammo pack next to the medkit on right (when attacking from mid) would also be hugely useful.
If attacking on this map I get bored as roamer. Defending mid I can roll and smoke a ciggie, and still be bored. If those rocks were gone I could get an eyeball on medic and jump him (like with the building on old obscure), but right now me and scouts and sometimes roamer just have to spam each other hoping one of us gets a pick.
Last edited by kugs,
best map ever. 6:5 in 30min is great, i had the best match ever on that map <3
Last edited by WLL,
Quoted from kugs
If the nearest rock was removed it would help things out a lot. A small ammo pack next to the medkit on right (when attacking from mid) would also be hugely useful.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/datlinus/screenshot/614966189919777305
Played the new version twice this week in a pcw, at first (after being rolled 5-0 in 30seconds) I couldn’t see any positives but after the second time playing (broder such gents) I began to appreciate it abit more. It’s not my fav map, but I’ve hardly got any playtime on it. I remember hating gully now it’s easily in my top 3.
Definitely think middle and second have been improved, saying that as previously mentioned I’ve only played it twice.
I do like the idea of a transparent window allowing the attacking team to get a peak at the defenders setup. At the moment the only way to get a glimpse is opening 1 of 2 doors (hi stickies) or commiting yourself through ‘bluewalls’ / the lil corridor on the left which versus anyone remotely switched on you just aren’t getting back out.
I’d quite like to see some sort of water route like on gully. Perhaps widen the blue walls corridor slightly and add some steps going underground that resurfaces behind the point, but I think for this to work well and have a good balance the length (from the doors the attackers push from to the final cp) of last would need to be reduced by 20/25%.
Last edited by FADe,
the distance isnt really the the problem, its mostly that spire / tower thingie
pasting my criticism from the prev. thread (which was locked hence why!)
nobody has mentioned the invisible walls bug which dissapears randomly, sometimes after 1 tf2 restart sometimes after 5. gg ETF2L, i feel it was a good move to bring in a map which allows some users to have legit wallhacks on (courtesy of w/e the fuck made this map). not that its so good, since you shoot yourself a lot as you dont see the rocks and think theres nothing between you and your enemy, but still.
Buffalo bill:
the problems with the voting have been specified. answer them instead of repeating the same ‘it was voted for’ mantra over and over again.
Since this is the official feedback thread (apparently) ill try to be as exhaustive as possible.
Ive played a lot of pcws on the map, so its based on more than 3-4 games on it (more like a dozen or more)
Middle fights:
three routes sounds great in theory. however, rolling out far left, with the exception of your demo, is slow and ineffective. rolling out right with more than 1 person (excluding scouts though middle route is still quicker for them to go even if theyre defending right) e.g. roamer is again, ineffective. going middle with your combo is the best 99% of the cases and it makes for very similar middle fights. the underside is also in theory a good idea, however, its very easily spammable by soldiers who dont need to commit to doing it (like on blands) by staying on the 2 rock spires and the bridges between them. going under to their side is usually too risky to be worth itfrom a roamers perspective, middle isnt too bad. i can stay under and wait for an opportunity, or go right, defensive, or far left to jump them as they come up. other classes not so much though hence why mid fights are rarely different from each other.
attacking and defending middle is alright, not much wrong with it.
2nd:
its way too big and has too much edges / clippings etc. feels dirty, clustered. lots of stuff on it feels like you slapped it there. however its my favourite point out of the whole map, as defending and attacking it isnt too bad. because of its size attacking it from middle (and from last but no so much) is split into 2 phases, 1 where the defender holds near the chokes nearer to the enemy, 2nd one where the defender holds the chokes nearer to their spawn. feels decent though, the rocks o nthe right (looking from middle) arent too bad, though they could be moved a bit as people suggested.
last:
ugh. very hard to attack once the defenders get a feel of the map (read: not their 1st playthrough, hi decerto). even harder to push out from unless you kill most of the attackers (which does happen often I guess since its so hard to attack =p!). chokes are meh, tower is meh. left choke (defenders pov), unless ubered through, is hard to attack from as youre facing an enemy above you who can also stay on those 2 things on top of each other (boxes? idk name). right choke (the tunnel) is very easy to be spammed and is hard to even uber through, especially if the enemy has a pyro. middle route is far away from last, big distance, and lacks any height advantage.
overall the flow in the map is too big slow, fragmented, each point is a stage unlike in other maps. hasnt improved much over _final, sorry vince / byte!
In reply to Byte’s reply in the other thread: yes, , Gullywash wasn’t finished when it became an official league map. But it was pretty fucking damn close. Obscure has never been close to finished. It is still the same map, even down to the entrances leading to last and the locations of those. Yes, it improved slightly, but no, it still ain’t good enough.
I also like how you refer to the polls: omomgomgmg people wanted it. The polls before s9 showed people didn’t like the old obscure and wanted snakewater, yet the admins completely ignored it in that case. You might counter that with saying it was not an official poll, but I doubt anyone did any form of statistical analysis on the official poll.
Last edited by Koeitje,
Quoted from Koeitje
In reply to Byte’s reply in the other thread: yes, , Gullywash wasn’t finished when it became an official league map. But it was pretty fucking damn close. Obscure has never been close to finished. It is still the same map, even down to the entrances leading to last and the locations of those. Yes, it improved slightly, but no, it still ain’t good enough.
I also like how you refer to the polls: omomgomgmg people wanted it. The polls before s9 showed people didn’t like the old obscure and wanted snakewater, yet the admins completely ignored it in that case. You might counter that with saying it was not an official poll, but I doubt anyone did any form of statistical analysis on the official poll.
Ty for the rant was a worthy minute lost of my life :)
Cheers
Byte
That wasn’t an official po- oh i see
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