Forum

Thanks Mike, and thanks Kaidus for your input. It’s really interesting to hear complaints on the connection 2-3, something I’ve never heard before, at least no concrete examples. Obviously you have played the map way more than most, so I’m glad to hear what you’re saying.

I’ve long feared that 2-3 is a bit too much of a chokepoint, but nobody’s had anything to say so I’ve ignored it.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but are these your suggestions?

– Give the right attack route more cover to make it harder to force ubers on pushing teams
– Give the left attack route a bit more flow and make it less narrow.

I am not looking to make any huge changes here, but I agree that there is a problem with this area. A lot of people used to complain on the area around cp 2 which I dont agree on, but the connector 3-2 is admittedly a bit of a clusterfuck, and also the area which has been revised the most times in the map’s history. I’m glad to do it again if you support me.

If anyone else has any input on this, please comment here or add me in steam (I’m online occasionally, bear with me).

Are there any plans for making adjustments to mid? For me it’s my biggest gripe. I main medic, and for me mid plays like granary but worse. There’s so many points of height advantage (the bridge above the cap, the ledges on either side of mid, the fact that the whole mid is hill-shaped) that it’s just “run around like a crazy man in the valleyside, dodging spam, and hope they dont focus/bomb you”.

At least on granary there is an option to rollout on top through ramproom if you wanna negate the height advantage. On this map, you can’t go top as medic. The only thing you can do is go left in house on rollout, but that way you end up on that balc/ledge thing on the left side of mid which ends in nothing. Why remove any possibility to go top? This is why badlands mid is so fun; there is no unfair height advantage.

In general the lesson for mappers has always been that putting height advantage on top of a cap (which is not the actual cap itself) is not a great idea. This is for instance why yukon got that drastic mid change.

I’d say make the balc area on each team’s left side of mid a bit bigger (more walking/dodging space) and make it connect in a ramp-shaped manner to the main bridge over mid so that every class can walk up the very top if they want to. If you don’t like the idea of every class getting up there easily, just change the ramp into some boxes/ledges so that you have to crouchjump up there (but watch out with that, such a thing can become quite annoying to play)

If you don’t like that idea, another way is to do it the other way around; nerf the height advantage. Make the bridge area above the cap very tiny/thin (so not only in the middle but also on the sides) so that it’s hard to keep that height advantage once you’re being targeted. But tbh why not try the former idea?

This whole mid thing has always been the biggest issue for me with this map, and the reason I don’t like to play it as my mainclass. Those tweaks to pushing 2nd from mid already look good; I’d still like to see some mid adjustements added to that tho. My 2 eurocents :3

Will be playing the rc 4 in my #tf2cup on monday ! :)

Quoted from Albert

Will be playing the rc 4 in my #tf2cup on monday ! :)

today is monday? :D

Quoted from Albert

Will be playing the rc 4 in my #tf2cup on monday ! :)

Glad to hear, I’ll be sure to watch the games if I manage to get STVs or if anyone cares to provide demos!

About allowing medics to reach the top bridge: I’ve considered it, and in fact it used to be like that in a previous version. The problem was that teams defending mid simply put their medic there, making it impossible to push mid from 2. That’s why I don’t want to allow medics to get up there. I agree that mids tend to be a bit stressed for medics, but I feel it’s also something that balances the mid a bit. Sure, you can focus the medic and even bomb him, but if you do you’e not going to have a chance of contesting the height advantage above the cap, and even if you successfully bomb you mightve lost the momentum to actually get the point.

This being said, I agree that medics might have a hard time on this mid. I’ll need to get more people’s thoughts on how to handle this before I know what to do about it, however.

Nice, thanks a lot :D

Quoted from choiie

[…]
About allowing medics to reach the top bridge: I’ve considered it, and in fact it used to be like that in a previous version. The problem was that teams defending mid simply put their medic there, making it impossible to push mid from 2. That’s why I don’t want to allow medics to get up there. I agree that mids tend to be a bit stressed for medics, but I feel it’s also something that balances the mid a bit. Sure, you can focus the medic and even bomb him, but if you do you’e not going to have a chance of contesting the height advantage above the cap, and even if you successfully bomb you mightve lost the momentum to actually get the point.

This being said, I agree that medics might have a hard time on this mid. I’ll need to get more people’s thoughts on how to handle this before I know what to do about it, however.

About making the bridge more narrow: I’m not sure how that would help medics at all, the solution would rather be to add some sort of cover other than the balcony. I’m kind of pleased with how the mid works now however, and it’s hard to perceive what effect giving more protection would have. But if there is a good suggestion, of course I’m willing to try it out.