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Quoted from Serious Cat

– The only proper way to do AC is to have the trained human eye looking at (full) demos.
– I’m vehemently opposed to running a program that logs what I do on my PC and sends that information somewhere. That’s an invasion of privacy for one, plus it has legal implications for the person(s) storing that data as well.
– Thinking you can code an AC program that will improve anything is a mistake. If it was that easy, Valve’s VAC (for example) would’ve been flawless.

Most of all: it works better to ‘reward’ honesty than to ‘punish’ delinquency.

You cant “see” a triggerbot, you cant “see” a healthhack, actually ypu cant see a wallhack either if the user is intelligent and doesnt use aimbot.

But I understand that many of you doesnt want a klientside program, but to say its because privacy is almost ridicoulus, every program you use on the net sends information, can you really trust them?

So lets go for a serverside plugin?

The most common cheats as i I recall are these:

Aimbot, can be detected by AC crew
wallhack, detected/stopped by DBlocker
speedhack, detected/stopped by DBlocker
exploitable convars, detected/stopped by DBlocker
healthhack, can be detected by DBlocker in the future?
triggerbot, can be detected by DBlocker in the future? and maybe by a trained AC crew?

This is maybe not a ultimate solution but with the communitys resistance against other programs, it is as far we can get?

Quoted from trams

[…]
You cant “see” a triggerbot, you cant “see” a healthhack, actually ypu cant see a wallhack either if the user is intelligent and doesnt use aimbot.

A triggerbot and a wallhack can be detected by a trained AC admin. There are plenty of tools available to assist with this should an admin require them.

You’d be surprised to know that DBlocker has been used in places already by ETF2L. I currently dislike the way the plugin works though. As all logs are sent back to a 3rd party outside of the server owner’s control. There needs to be a limit as to what data is stored and where that data goes, especially if we as a league were to become a proper company.

The ETF2L server is in the UK (which is where a company would likely be formed), and the Data Protection officers would have an absolute field day if we were sending data like that to a 3rd party website.

Quoted from trams

[…]

You cant “see” a triggerbot, you cant “see” a healthhack, actually ypu cant see a wallhack either if the user is intelligent and doesnt use aimbot.

You can see these cheats because they will make a mistake, someone that’s wallhacking will aways know where the enemy is coming from, and with a demo you can use a wireframe command so it will also see through the walls.

Example in CSS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1_jpYkOPi8&feature=related

And aso: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKY7dpqX7Zk < this one shows the mistakes that a cheater had made ingame.

With CSS it's "easier" to cover up hacks by random spraying etc. and just looking innocent as shown with pre-fire.

In TF2 you can't shoot through walls and sooner or later it just takes one retarded slipup to be caught, because, most of them are retarded.

I think eduacting the community as to what to look for, and/or releasing evidence on cheaters could in someway be a good idea, however it would have it's downfalls from those that do not see what trained people can, but maybe simplifying it using the tools like the wireframe commands it could maybe help make the evidence clearer to those that do not see it.

As people pointed out there should be a panel where decisions and members finding are confidential untill someone goes through it and presents the evidence to the panel members, i.e. finding that 6/8 members pointed out tick 23000 as bullshit.

Whereas a 100% cheat free league is not going to happen, but catching them out time and time again is realistic, someone will always come in and cheat to win, but with a good system you can just catch them out.

If someone is brought to your attention but not enough evidence is collected, maybe findind a way to get demo's or putting the person on a suspect list would be a good idea.

Also cheats coming back into the game should be asked to supply POV demo's to each and everygame for a season, so atleast they don't start the shit again.

Quoted from Norris

Exfane,

I did. never had troubles but I can clearly see why others do have problems with it. The point still stands that the coders of aequitas are hardly to blame here. It’s like you blame microsoft because their OS doesn’t work as fast or stable like it should after you customized it to death or haven’t installed working drivers for your hardware. there’s no way they can ever control every possible configuarion here.

people who actually play this game serious should also consider it to set up a working OS as well. I agree that this will never be an option for the league here as there are usually people inside who just want to join and compete but for the ESL finals there should be at least something like aequitas.

The only difference here is that you can choose what OS you want to use and aequitas gets forced in the league. When stuff gets forced onto a player first of all it should work properly, secondly you cant expect players to adjust their pc to a shitty programme.

Still, server side AC client is the way forward!

I used aquituiiasis once. Crashed when I submitted the info to ESL, which let to a minor warning. I prefer no AC tool unless it works well and is well integrated. Not PB, not aquitieias.

Quoted from d2m

[…]

You’d be surprised to know that DBlocker has been used in places already by ETF2L. I currently dislike the way the plugin works though. As all logs are sent back to a 3rd party outside of the server owner’s control. There needs to be a limit as to what data is stored and where that data goes, especially if we as a league were to become a proper company.

Can he modify the program to be “taylor made” for etf2l and send data to your servers instead?
Then its good news :)

Quoted from xzr

[…]

too bad the cheats happen on the client side, it’s pretty impossible to detect dodgy mouse-movements/triggerbots/wh on the serverside.

speedhack maybe

You can prevent wh by not sending the info to the user, like DBlocker does ;)

Quoted from Exfane

[…]

Thought this was already forced by the etf2l cfg itself, but it would be better if these net settings were forced, as its a pain in the ass shooting someone with different cmdrate/updaterate, hitreg is just so different.

@Norris;

I think you havent used aequitas yourself, as its just made to crash or fail rlly. The idea is good, catch cheaters, but atm the programme causes more problems to the “honest” players instead of actually catching cheaters in our community.

All players of Blight/TCM/PwR (there are others too, not only these) have been using ESL Wire since EMS week 1 to EMS end, and are now using it on the league, and except a few issues which they had on week 1/2 of the EMS, they have not had any issues until now. We have told all the league teams to get their players to test Aequitas before their first match, this was sent 3-4 times by emails, along with the private forum with infos about Aequitas and common problems. It is your own fault and you can only blame yourself if you have not read these emails, and the forums, and have not tested ESL Wire (or Aequitas) before your first match. We have also told people to use ESL Wire because it has a lot less problems than the standalone Aequitas, but again some people didn’t listen.

The only crash with Wire which has been reported lately was when you click the “Upload” button when trying to upload files, and that was fixed 2 days ago.