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All this bullshit, and basically common sense is exactly what’s needed.

Are all of the div2 teams that could get promoted capable of what promotion will bring? Possibly not. Are there teams out there who can handle what promotion will bring? Possibly.

You’ve got to start from the start, and get your divisions sorted out properly and accurately in the first place. From there, at the end of the season you’d hardly have to work anything out for yourselves.

Let’s take an example of what effect it can have when you misplace a team.

This season we’ve only had one reasonably challenging game, and that’s no disrespect to the other teams, the games were always fun, but largely one sided. Now, with or without our banned demoman, we were still around a div2 level, so i’m going to pretend that there’s a random team called “bob” who are in a similar situation to us.

There’s 4 div2 teams that dropped and at least a couple who probably weren’t capable of div2. So the teams who are at the top of div2 are basically given an easier ride to the top of div2.

So they’re top of div2 now and that means promotion into div1. Does that mean they’re the best of the div2 clans that are around and thus moving into the div1 circle is justified? Not necessarily – there are div2 clans in div3. But next season they’ll be in div1 when they should be in div2, and some demoted div1 teams that should be in div1 are now in div2, so AGAIN the div2 table is less accurate than it should be and the div1 teams will probably just go straight back up again. Also don’t forget the div3 table was unbalanced because of a div2 team being put there. So decent teams that COULD contend in div2 won’t be able to now because a promotion spot was taken by the div2 clan.

And let’s say that during the whole season, “bob” team were progressively capable of handling top teams. Well they were in div3 and promoted, so now they’re in div2, and the very difficult games they’ll play will be against, you guessed it, div1 clans in div2, further upsetting the balance of the div2 table.

The problem is having such an extremely rigid promotion/demotion/don’t change anything/don’t make the leagues any bigger system. We’re playing a computer game, and shit changes every single day.

That’s my verdict anyway. You can’t have such strict and unbending rules for such a flexible and ever changing community. Liberally using your common sense to place teams may be unpopular with a few teams who feel like they deserve better, but i think that can be minimised. And at the end of the day, placing teams properly will encourage growth in the game.

Er.. essay again. Sorry

TL:DR – League placements/promo/demotions are too rigid, ends up placing teams in the wrong place which has major knock on effects which make things even more wrong. Place them correctly, use common sense, better for community, less harmfull overall.

I don’t think it should be any harder than it already is to get promoted. Some of the current div1 teams don’t even play PCWS and they have barely won a map in the league. I don’t think keeping those stale and un-competitive teams in the top flite is going to be an advantage to anyone.

Yes this opinion is biased but yes it does have a good point before you rage.

I’m also confused from Seraph’s post.

My viewpoint is rather this, I’d rather prove my worth to play in the upper division by beating the worst team from there than just get in and get assraped like what has happened LOL Team (sorry guys!=)) If you lose a series, well you clearly don’t belong there, if you do, well it’s well deserved and proven.

And what you are talking is realistically about the situation how it is now, IF we did get a premiere division the current div1 would have 6 extra spots to add on for next season so it already would balance out the competition levels to pretty much how the teams actually are.

IF we don’t get the new system, which seems quite likely the divisions would balance themselves out in time as they’d have to prove their worth in playoff series, maybe not directly yet in the next season but eventually the better teams would stay in div1.

what vlad said

I agree with this, in some divisions there seems to be a big misplacement with the teams where one team is rolling all the others.

However this is always going to happen, one team will always have a better team than the rest, which is why they are top, so it is upto the others to improve their game and become better.

Hopefully things will balance itself out and people will be put into the correct divisions eventually, the tougher teams in the divisions will simply have to go up the long way to get where they belong.

You wouldn’t. What would steamrolling div3/4/5/6 clans show?

We in TDR are quite lucky with our div, most opponents still offer a good challenge. Wasn’t expecting the russians and spaniards doing so well, combined with the default loss we have we can’t afford any mistakes.

If other top teams (div1-2) were active in the ladder you wouldn’t play matches where you steamroll lower divs, you would play against teams at (hopefully) your skill level. The problem right now is that the higher div teams aren’t active enough to make this happen.

A way to fix this would be to input the results from the league matches to the ladder, maybe with some manipulation of the k value. But maybe I should stop posting this here and start posing it in the Ladder thread

hups

vlad for head admin please

seconded.

Adding new teams to the mix makes things more complex. Yea all in all using common sense would work out maybe the best, but there will be frowning about it and every respectable league has a system & rules they go along with.

New teams bring a variety of problems. It’s very easy to fold a team and just make a new team with established players and get back to the same compeitition level, this should change or there should be some common sense rule about it, keeping a struggling team survive for a bad season should be rewarding, not just easy to dump it and start a new. Also placing new teams top divisions are problematic to keep the level of play. At the moment you simply just can’t put a new team ahead of a clan that has deserved their promotion by playing a season or a few under their belts with the current promotion/relegation system it just destroys the integrity. Maybe new teams could be placed to that playoff system to play out for the spot in the division that they prolly are gonna be OR just place new teams at best to top 3 div. This would encourage teams to keep their teams in div1/div2 unfolded and try to work them out as it would take at least 2 seasons to get back to div1.. so a the team can’t wait for 2 seasons to get back to div1? well screw then, sounds like it’s all about gloryhunting and if things don’t work out as planned they are likely to fold out again though this also has it’s problems in it too. Anyways something needs to be done, etf2l started as a community project and if deciding admins (some) don’t give a shit or do a thing let community make the effort yet again. =)