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Just get it defaulted + lifetime ban. cba discussing this shit anymore. We all know it fucks up divs but etf2l doesn’t care about balance anyways. They care about stability or something.

I tend to agree with both solutions. Kodyl’s idea is fantastic, just a shame it was lost in the rage posts of the rest of TDR (no offence guys, ;) ).

Maybe change the sentance so default 18 months, but 9 months if they admit kinda thing. 2 years imo is counter-product as TF2 is likely to be dead by then (properly dead that is) and just encourages people to do the same as Mads/SonofPi3 did. I.E. they know they will never be able to play again under their true alias so they just make a new account. 9 months on the other hand is a comprehendable amount of time. Last thing this game needs right now is people leaving it for good.

Funny how you only started caring after your own team took the fall

you are right, but thats why i want to change it in the future to the other teams and not the past

Like we tried? And nobody cared :). I also mentioned Kodyl’s idea back when we were dealing with this shit (so does that make it my idea then? Guess so). Guess what? Nobody cared. Most admins didn’t want replays etcetera.

Also nice you didn’t care when it happened to others but now you do care.

-> Subject 2

The normal punishment I suppose its 2 years now, I was thinking in for example whoever admits to use cheats to have his sentence reduced to half of the time, 1 year. Motivate a player to admit the facts is good for several reasons:
– Avoiding people to accuse the league of banning them without proofs
– Avoiding clan players of embarrassing themselves defending someone that cheats

Sorry haunter, i’m going to have to shit on this idea…

Have you even thought this through?

That is the WORST idea i have ever heard, and i’ve heard some fucking ideas. First off, people are not accused of cheating in etf2l, they are branded a cheater, there is no proof presented nor response allowed – for whatever reasons and for better or for worse, that’s how it goes.

So you say to someone:
“You ARE being banned for cheating, there is no way out of it. Now, did you cheat? If you say yes, you’ll get banned for a year. If you say no, you’ll get banned for 2 years.”
“Ok, i definitely cheated.”
“Cya in a year.”

You say it “avoids people accusing the league of banning without proof”? Yes, you’re right, it does. It does that by giving them the choice of saying “i cheat” or being banned for twice as long.

So why would someone say no? This is an utterly backwards policy in that it encourages innocent people to tar themselves with a filthy brush just to be able to resume playing a game which they never cheated at.

Imagine that? It guarantees a 100% successful cheat detection rate by FORCING an admission of guilt. A denial changes nothing because they are still seen as a cheat, and now they’re banned for 2 years instead of one.

I hope i explained this clearly, because i noticed it was a rather difficult thing to explain.

—

In a court of law, we allow a person to plea guilty or not guilty BEFORE we decide whether to imprison him. A plea of guilty allows us to save the time and effort of a trial and thus occasionally a smaller sentence is cast.

In this case, we have already decided he IS guilty. You may as well ask a guy on his way to jail, “Would you like to be in prison for 10 years or 5 years?”

So why not just ask our cheaters “Would you like a 1 year ban or a 2 year ban?”

To be honest, the bottom line is that without proof, no system of dealing with cheats will ever work as all you have is someones word. No demo’s, anti-cheat program logs, nothing. That is the ultimate problem here and always will be.

Funny how you only started caring after your own team took the fall

you are right, but thats why i want to change it in the future to the other teams and not the past

Like we tried? And nobody cared :). I also mentioned Kodyl’s idea back when we were dealing with this shit (so does that make it my idea then? Guess so). Guess what? Nobody cared. Most admins didn’t want replays etcetera.

Also nice you didn’t care when it happened to others but now you do care.

Maybe this time it’ll work because Haunter actually bothered to make a nice, detailed opening post instead of a shitload of flames about how shitty this league and it’s admins are…

That said, the second idea is flawed for the reasons mentioned above.

I’m not bringing law or courts into the argument, i am displaying the absurdity of an idea by drawing a parallel to something more easy to understand.

To take the metaphor further, as you stated, you are right – no proof is presented nor cases argued – the defendant IS guilty on accusation. Therefore we are already past the stage where we can ask “Are you guilty or not?” Because it serves no purpose. The man is guilty, and all we are asking him is “Do you prefer a longer or shorter sentence?”

There is no benefit to saying you’re innocent – you’re still seen as a cheat. You’re simply banned for longer.

Edit: Also, i don’t address any attempt to protect your clan’s name – i only argue with the plea bargaining idea. Anything that can help to protect a team from getting shat upon when 1 lowly scumbag cheats is a good thing. It’s not your fault he cheated and you shouldn’t suffer.

The rematch idea is probably a good one, but it leads to massive extensions on the league of up to what, 2 weeks? Assuming you can play 1 match a night, 5 nights a week, in a div with 10 teams – that might cause problems for a lot of people who are already snowed under.

Also, a team may or may not be able to play those replays. Say i planned to take a holiday after the last league match ended, now i am unavailable till the start of next season?