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Poor Vlad, if only everyone else was as big a tree-hugging hippy as you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQvmCzILBfE

^ LOL at both those

It’s true.. the more threads that go the way of the first, the more my point is proved. It’s my undying legacy that will continue down the ages!!! Both sides doing what they do best!

Can’t we all just get along?

Yeah, well, if people could just leave the flames out of the threads, they wouldn’t get locked — now would they?

I don’t actually see any problems at all with ETF2L. I do, however, think this flaming-business is getting out of hand. As I’ve written many times before, I don’t really care, but the rest of the admins have to deal with the crap as well — deleting posts, locking threads, working overtime to remove 720(!) posts on the forums saying “GRYZOR IS A CUNT HAHA” (this was Joske/NVCs doing, by the way — remember to thank them!). (Edit: Per nVcs request, I’d like to add that NVC did not perform the actual mass-posting, these were verified to come solely from Joskes IP as a consequence of NVC getting a 1 week forum-ban for flaming.)

All this time thrown down the drain for no apparent reason, is time that could be better spent, say, making ladders, improving the league and helping people. Reading on #etf2l, it seems former “FU GRYZOR!” people are even starting to notice this tiresome trend and realising it’s actually not that cool to copy the idiot-people anymore, hence asking for advice on how the hell they can counter it (or, we, rather).

Well, there are a number of ways.

* We could ignore them, getting copycats all over the place, as is done today.
* We could moderate their posts and lock the threads, but this only leads to ‘good’ people getting pissed off and feeling we do nothing to try and listen and reason to people.
* We could bring out the BIG banhammer, meaning any more flames what so ever, will get your entire clan banned from ETF2L — permanently.

Perhaps the last one is a bit drastic, but why the hell not. All this flaming is destroying the league, making people want to quit because they do not feel their work is fun anymore and what not. This will only hurt _EVERYBODY_ in the end. You’d be stuck with.. me.. alone. Nobody would like that.

Because I’m really sincere when I say I do not care at all about the flames. I started the ETFL league 10 years ago (Quakeworld Teamfortress), and some idiot-kids telling me I “suck” or whatever doesn’t really bother me AT ALL. It’s a fun spare-time project, and I quite enjoy the occasional bout with people — but other people do not. Not anymore.

If you’re aiming at getting me to “quit ETF2L” or whatever, doing all this will get you NOWHERE. I presume that much has been proven.

So for the sake for everybody, quit it — because if I “quit”, it will be because everybody else feels this project is no longer worthwhile, and when that day comes — we’re all losers.

Flamers: Think about it, and then have a big cup of STFU.
The rest: Most of us admins are really cool guys with nice attitudes and helpful manners – it’s unfortunate that most of the time you have dealings with us, it’s because something is WRONG.

Some good points Gryzor, but calling people idiots is exactly whats causing these problems. By lowering ourselves to the flamers standard we’re exacerbaiting (sp?) the problem rather than solving it- people start personal vendettas and we get an escalation leading to a circle of decline….just look at the recent spamming by the fore mentioned people.

Instead we need a multiplier effect- that would be love. (bonus points for geographical terminology :D).

Edit- Supreme Being has a good argument, but I would counter that where is the value in those matches for the very best “premier” teams? To support your point though i’d suggest the FB vs TCM match at the end of s5…excellent example :D.

PS- its got me stumped :D.

Why would a playoff from the winner of div1 against the loser of the premier seem dull?

Cause in the current situation the outcome of this game is predetermined.

And I don’t exactly see what is still stopping you from playing pcws against the premier teams

Well, I’m exactly the guy who is looking for games for my team. During two last weeks I saw that top teams were looking for games twice. That might be a bad example but u should get my point anyway.

in a game like tf2 pcws actually do matters :p

Btw in my opinion pcws don’t matter much.

it’s a waste of our time having to play a 1hour game vs lower div1 teams.

I do not care about ur ego, so u may go ahead :)

Think about playing vs lower teams as about ur contribution to the community.