Forum

there’s just no activity on the esl site , no forum , no one even checks the ladder ;(well i tried but i couldnt even find the results in the beginning on that website :D) so why would u be motivated to win against clans from the top of the ladder if no one even sees it

on the other hand, there’s a lot of activity on the etf2l site, people check the forums, results, demos …

Big thumbs up. This will allow the newly formed teams to play until the next season begins…. to play in the place to be for competitive TF2 games. We don´t need 100 leagues or ladders, we only need 1 : ETF2L :P

i still would love to see some anticheat program used in etf2l :p

Well from what we have found (+ A bit of my own input)

Reasons as to why Ladders can be sucky (and current ones are sucky! :P)

Site system – difficult to see standings, organise matches, challenge teams.

Activity – Ladder activity is always a problem, especially if the teams near the top stop playing so much in the ladder

Gap in Skill – In some occassions, there are ladders where the top3 teams are so far above the rest, its almost pointless to continue playing in it (i.e if 4kings wotr and tlr signed up and rest were div4 teams – not much admins can do on this obv).

Conflict with other competitions, when theres thing like leagues and cups going on, ladders are usually forgotten and become less active

Solutions – This is where you guys come in any ideas are welcome!

Site System – Already is easy to use but will need new tweaks to add challenge options and introduce further math to add “points” and remove them after x amount of time (see activity)

Activity – If a team does not play a minmum of “x” amount of games in the first 2 weeks of signing up, they are automatically classed as an “inactive” team, this would count for teams in progress also, for example if team A were first in the ladder but hadn’t played in “x” amount of weeks, their points could be gradually deducted and hence move down the ladder.

Gap in Skill – This would be hard one to counter, it would be a little unfair to deny good teams access if only low teams have signed up and vice versa.

Conflict – Again there is nothing you can do about this, there will always be “other” competitions running.

Ladder/League Hybrid

I remember back in TFC there was a ladder competition called “Vitality” and it was a hybrid of league and ladder play.

When it began, teams would signup and then be assigned in to divisions by skill. The league would then generate one fixture for each team per week on one map. This would continue for 4 weeks and then the team with the highest win streak in each division will then face the 2nd place team, if the 1st placed team wins, they will go up a division, or if already in the top division, be given a trophy. If the second placed team won, they would then have the highest streak and would have to defend this for a further 4 weeks. If in a division below the top division, if the 1st placed team won the title match, they would be promoted (with the bottom of the division above being relegated), if the 2nd placed team won the game, they would again have to defend the title.

This overcomes many of the problems stated above, with activity, gap in skill and with the site system already very easy to use, we may have a good comp on our hands. Please community people discuss and come up with ideas :)

I tend to see skill as a problem only in ladders/leagues where there is a huge gap between teams, in smaller gathers this could happen easily, let’s say there are top tier teams like 4, then rest 16 lower tier teams, the top teams of the lower tier clans would lose interest pretty soon as they would not have much to gain, but in a system where there is a lot of variety clans, let’s say like 100 clans from etf2l. The diversity of skill would allow all to compete well and have their aims higher, like in the leagues where div 5 clans surely aim to get higher on and such. It’s like mid team skills they don’t even want to challenge div1 teams, but would tend to challenge mid+ teams in div2. Lot’s of participating clans and there is no skill gap of such. :)

About ladder systems, I’ve only played such where you get higher if you win a clan above you, not based on points (havn’t never really understood these since a middle clan could grind out points against low clans easily and actively). for example if a team on spot 50 wins a clan in spot 20 the gain would be 50% of it, so 50-20=30/2, they would end up on pace 35 and so. Inactivity drops you down and such. Of course on side there could be a point system too.

Also if it could be implemented so that league results & cup results in 6on6 games would be automatically reported to ladder too for some clans it would not even need much to do with the ladder if not wanting to, just add the option to report pcw:s to ladder too and clans wanting some results shown on somewhere could easily do that too.

Should make an easy to acces system to ladder, check box attend ladder in team admin, while if ppl would take themselves out of ladder the statistics should be saved somewhere if clans would participate again and not nulling the results/statistics as some clans could propably abuse the system.

What I’m curious about is that some guys would surely prefer the point based sorting system and I’d just like to hear how is that better than you win a clan above you, you get higher. The only problem I would see is that clans would mostly just aim to play higher teams, but if a solid challenge system could be arranged like +/- 20 clans you’d have to answer to the challenge or so, schedule the pcw/ladder to play it. I don’t see the problem in that situation either. :)

Discuss!

We the Care Bears would definetly participate in this. (And not so much interested in the CB/ED/ESL and such ladders, yack;D)

About the pcw issue then, just pcw:s that are scheduled in team admin then (could be scheduled like in instant if both clans agreed upon a pcw/ladder game then). Oh, wait, that would not make them pcw:s anymore! kinda! ;P oh well, gotta settle with that then! ;D

Would be nice!
Why not use the ladder upon skill?
Like, you have 5 ladders, one for each skill level (1-5).
The newly formed teams play where they think they belong. + The div 5 / 4 / 3 / whatever teams get to see what div 5 / 4 / 3 / whatever team that is the best.

As we are 5c division clan, we are not so experienced with ED/CB/ESL (we are there but stil linactive, as we are active just only here) any way so far the ETF2L has fast and simple front-end, admins are fast in solving issues. We have here a lot of new clans (well skilled and newones still learning how to play competetive TF2).

So it is very good starting point/setting for clans as well for admins to get ladderstarted. you can make something different or ask ESL for help (you know, they probably started ladders in the past, sot i think they had to solve same issues as the guys listed here in this thread.

the idea makin ladder differ by division assignment or/and level skill is imho good. Also the top clans are already at ESl/CB/ED ladders as well in several cups, fun cups…so at the end, who knows if they really sign here to ladder. Or let’s open one “Testing” round/season to see how it’s working.

PS: sorry me for my english :)