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Quoted from Sonny Black

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And I dont want to talk badly about tf2pickup here, but I dont see them sponsoring a main season, so far they once sponsored division 1 with 100€, the following season I asked them if they wanted to do that again they declined. And for s19 they sponsored strange weapons, hats and killstreak kits. While that is nice for lower divisions, because they have something to win as well, those prizes are nothing you can fund premiership with.

It’s not about completely sponsoring a main season on our own, that would not be possible indeed. Before S18 we had a lot of awesome donations what made it possible for us to spend those 100€, what wasn’t possible for other seasons, that’s why we mainly sponsor cups etc with items.

Then again, we never said we only want prem to receive our items, and we never would. As you are stating in the recent news post, there will be item prizes for the open tier, and who would say no to free items anyways?

It is just really frustrating when we do and try to do a lot of sponsoring for cups/events etc and whenever a new cup/season gets announced with all the prizes we simply have to wonder why we didn’t get asked for prizes for the lower divs, as that would make it more attractive for them as well.

Appreciating your work and effort for all of this, but it simply feels like prizes that aren’t cash are not welcomed at all and that it must be a pain in the ass for you to accept them and announce them, so that you can’t write a single steam message or email to either of us simply asking if we are interested a bit in advance.

I like how this thread got hijacked instead of trying to figure out why this went so horribly wrong! Or how it can be prevented and to actually make S21 the season S20 was supposed to become.

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I would like to call out some bullshit from the users & admins in this thread if I may:
Quoted from

But this community project affects everyone – from regular players like you and me, to zoob, Arie and whoever is running scrap.tf. It’s a public call for donations, and who knows maybe they will try a direct approach with that.

Then why was the fundraiser announced 2 days before sign-ups close and not back in December with the S19 wrap-ups/awards/playoffs over or when the Archimedes Cup got announced with an S20 prize incentive for newer players!

In all honesty, even if they do a sponsorship initiative, I don’t see any community projects bringing money into this.

This attitude, as a league you can reach out or at least attempt to reach out (this didn’t happen to my knowledge). Or are you saying this because there is no way for ETF2L to guarantee promotion in return for funds or because TF2 community projects don’t have any money for things like this?

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Quoted from

about the “oh why didnt you release it earlier omg …why didnt you ask everyone etc”

All of this was made by 3 people under time pressure!

I really hope you’re joking, because I’ve heard rumours about community funding back in October, suggested they’d talk to me (TF2Pickup.net / whitelist.tf) if they needed sponsors, never heard from this again.

if you wanna help out for s21 and can provide any help to make this league bigger/higher success/ pricepool etc i am pretty sure all you have to do is to talk to the respective Headadmins and i am a 100 percent certain that they appreciate all the help they can get

:/ I’m lost for words here of your ignorance and your lack of experience with ETF2L admins in this area.

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Quoted from

afaik geel wanted to help support the competitive scene by sponsoring a newbie cup. So far he has not expressed any interest in sponsoring a regular etf2l season. At least not that I know of.

THEN WHY NOT ASK, is it really that hard?

And I dont want to talk badly about tf2pickup here, but I dont see them sponsoring a main season, so far they once sponsored division 1 with 100€, the following season I asked them if they wanted to do that again they declined.

YOU FUCKING W0T M8!
– We just (back then) relaunched the website to support all game modes and get TF2Pickup back on everyones mind, TF2C wasn’t a thing yet, funds were tight and we got 0 promotion in return for the prize we provided
– For S20 there were rumours for community funding, yet no admin reached out to ask for possible helping with the prize pool

And for s19 they sponsored strange weapons, hats and killstreak kits. While that is nice for lower divisions, because they have something to win as well, those prizes are nothing you can fund premiership with.

– We haven’t been asked for S19, we had to get in contact with maincall after they contacted ETF2L to get playoffs for all divs, prizes were somewhat rushed and again 0 promotion
All those prizes were supposed to be for places 1, 2 and 3 for 4 different divisions, yet the winner of each div literally took all! And prem already had a “substantial” money prizepool, don’t spoil those bastards anymore.

We are not trying to be innovative here, we wanted to approach the prize money for s20 differently than asking out anonymous donator for 1k€ again.

Who said it has to be anonymous, who says you can’t have the community websites start to add to your prizepool AND ask for more support with a fund-raiser (announced 2 days before signups close).

Dont you think we have tried to get in touch with sponsors? With major and minor names alike.

No one has been in contact with TF2Outpost, whitelist.tf or TF2Pickup.net (or apparently geel) to just aks, you can tell me you’ve tried to reach out, but not to us/me.

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I could keep going about what went wrong to actually get S20 funded or call out incompetent actions from admins/players/league(s), but that won’t get S20 funded.

Just get your shit together for S8 HL or S21 6v6 ETF2L and for the love of GabeN, REACH OUT, ASK THE COMMUNITY WHAT THEY WANT, you’re a league for the community by the community, get your staff to act like it!

– For S20 there were rumours for community funding, yet no admin reached out to ask for possible helping with the prize pool
-I really hope you’re joking, because I’ve heard rumours about community funding back in October, suggested they’d talk to me (TF2Pickup.net / whitelist.tf) if they needed sponsors, never heard from this again.

its about people actually putting time and work in instead of just talking about it :)
and i know for a fact that many people had shit tons of great ideas (just like in this thread) but when it actually got to the point where people have to put in hours it was only 3 :)

Let me just get one thing clear that I fundamentally disagree with the etf2l admin team, and you just mentioned it again Sonny, I also heard Perm and Hildreth mentioning in the past and this is really worrying me.

When mentioning other active community members like me (comp.tf), wieth (tf2p, whitelist.tf) etc… And complaining about not being contacted for anything you said something to the likes of “if you’re interested you can contact us”

This philosophy is simply wrong and you are ultimately hurting the league with this, it seems many of other staff members share this idea, but you’re the ones representing the league, so it’s in YOUR best interest to contact and reach out to community members/websites for possible partnerships/sponsorships not the other way around.

So I really hope you debate this issue between your staff because this is NOT OK, when you have possible partners that have to come onto the forums to complaint that they weren’t reached out to or contacted for anything when it’s in your best interest to do so.

So far it seems you already missed out on a lot of opportunities this season because of this, which all together and added to the crowdfund prizepool would actually make a very decent season.

And if you can’t be arsed to do it, then consider getting someone on the team with the sole job of reaching out to community members/sites for possible partnerships.

Quoted from Sonny Black

Stalking non-admins in the etf2l staff? Who is that? How does that help you? :D

Since talking to most of the admins will get you no where, so I’ve already given up on most of them.

And saying that Season 20 is the first thing you are not directly involved in was a statement, no accusation.

In this context and with everyone derailing from the actual questions in the OP it might not have been an accusation, but it was still ETF2L’s ‘fault’.
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Calm down, read, understand, post.

I’d like to return the favour and get some actual answers or suggestions for the things I listed in the first post (http://etf2l.org/forum/league/topic-30958) I see the Rules & Configs still haven’t been updated ;)

So now that the fundraiser came first you cannot contribute?

No, I principally refuse now to donate personally.

On a related note.

Being far from related to the issues as the perks for item donations are listed on your IGG page!

Seeing as you want to get into promotional details, I’d rather not in this thread and will talk to Hildreth (or whoever I’m supposed to talk to) about this instead.

Quoted from Sonny Black

[…]
But if “normal” people donate items as well, it simply wont be a tf2pickup exclusive thing.

Pretty sure we never stated that we want an exclusive thing. And as we use mine and Wiets items, why not use them to promote our community websites.

Our bad here might be that we assume you want to get a prizepool as good as possible, and i guess that would involve asking Sponsors from past events (especially in a ‘smaller’ community), what would include us. But I’m no expert at this, so just writing what i think.

Could also have provided some stuff for perks (the raffle especially, not so much for the other stuff), but that’s about the same story i guess.

Would have contributed to it as myself anyways, so that’s not the problem either.

We more than appreciate the include in the beta website, but that’s not really part of this discussion (even though wiet brought it up)(i think there were some problems with mentions or so in past posts, but not sure, not relevent anyways atm.) Also wouldn’t say that’s the header ;P

As i said earlier, it simply is frustrating when you want to get the community involved but not community projects.

Quoted from Kaneco

Let me just get one thing clear that I fundamentally disagree with the etf2l admin team, and you just mentioned it again Sonny, I also heard Perm and Hildreth mentioning in the past and this is really worrying me.

When mentioning other active community members like me (comp.tf), wieth (tf2p, whitelist.tf) etc… And complaining about not being contacted for anything you said something to the likes of “if you’re interested you can contact us”

I’ll post here as I really wanted to talk to you, but you haven’t accepted my friend request.

This thread is criticizing the way the league is run, but people posting here have me on steam Friends and have admins on their friends lists. There is also an email to contact admins and an IRC channel.

I am happy to speak to anybody about help with the running of the league, promotion of the league and how we attract or talk to sponsors, suggestions and so forth but doing it in this manner is merely perceived as an attempt to call admins out and embarrass us, or criticize our methods. There are actually a lot of perfectly justifiable criticisms in this thread and perfectly reasonable responses, but also certainly plenty of room to improve and take the comments on board.

The reality is though the way you come across Kaneco is with the sort of mannerisms of somebody that is highly opinionated, difficult to work with and can offer nothing substantial for the amount we would get in return. I seen your work for comp.tf, it was great, you have skills and resources that could be useful to ETF2L but I might have seen you post several thousands worth of words posts on this forum of TF.TV, majority is inherently negative or critical and think “I don’t want to work with this guy”.

It’s as simple as that. I don’t go to an organization I want to work for and lead a public smear campaign, criticizing the senior management then expect them to reach out for me with open arms. This PR role I have, I posted some damning comments too but the difference is I realized what I post on the forum will only lead to damaging relations, so I approached the staff directly.

If you want to know what is going on in the background, accept my invite on steam, we’ll talk and see what we can do for eachother. I’m happy to swallow what little pride I have left and accept any amount of criticism, but difference is if you speak to me directly you will show signs of wanting an interest in partnership.

You could carry on posting here though and be one of those people who talks a lot and does nothing. A lot of people can make criticisms in a business, but the ones who come up with the solutions get promoted.

It’s up to you, I can ignore you on here in what I regard as a petulant thread or we can talk like adults and get things done. The invite is still pending.

Quoted from Hildreth

The reality is though the way you come across Kaneco is with the sort of mannerisms of somebody that is highly opinionated, difficult to work with and can offer nothing substantial for the amount we would get in return. I seen your work for comp.tf, it was great, you have skills and resources that could be useful to ETF2L but I might have seen you post several thousands worth of words posts on this forum of TF.TV, majority is inherently negative or critical and think “I don’t want to work with this guy”.

I have wrote a lot of things on tf.tv, I’m probably one of the people with most posts (and wasted time) there, probably a lot is irrelevant bs but I am not afraid to speak my mind, generally I like to give constructive feedback, but probably the only thing I can remember being overly critical and negative about is ESEA and the countless shortcomings they had.

Quoted from Hildreth

It’s as simple as that. I don’t go to an organization I want to work for and lead a public smear campaign, criticizing the senior management then expect them to reach out for me with open arms. This PR role I have, I posted some damning comments too but the difference is I realized what I post on the forum will only lead to damaging relations, so I approached the staff directly.

But the thing is, I don’t want to work for etf2l, I want to work for the tf2 community. If that means collaborating with etf2l or not then it’s another thing. It seems obvious to me that you guys are the ones missing out on a lot of free publicity and added prizepool, so you should be the ones actively seeking those partnerships not the other way around.

I also don’t care for what you or any of tf.tv think about me, I used to, but not anymore, as I said I don’t care about being part of the “cool kids” group, I’ve seen and done enough shit on the scene to know more or less how things work and I hate circlejerks and I know how damaging they can be. I think I have proved my worth by the hundreds of hours I put into the scene and the community, not by feeling validated by or being part of a circlejerk.

I could go on with many more “damning comments” but that would lead to “damaging relations”, which is funny because your entire post came off as a personal attack.

Quoted from Hildreth

If you want to know what is going on in the background, accept my invite on steam, we’ll talk and see what we can do for eachother. I’m happy to swallow what little pride I have left and accept any amount of criticism, but difference is if you speak to me directly you will show signs of wanting an interest in partnership.

You could carry on posting here though and be one of those people who talks a lot and does nothing. A lot of people can make criticisms in a business, but the ones who come up with the solutions get promoted.

It’s up to you, I can ignore you on here in what I regard as a petulant thread or we can talk like adults and get things done. The invite is still pending.

Was afk, accepted but just fyi going with the “I’m happy to swallow what little pride I have left” excuse is not the best way to start a (loving) relationship.