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I know from personal experience that both parties have good points.
The admins are good in the sense that they are firm and stick to decisions like glue, without hardly ever going back on their word; however providing a service to the public requires interaction and communication, in this case ‘proof of some sort’.

Both times I’ve dealt with odd behavior on a fairly large scale was observing trojan from CiC (this meant observing a fellow admins clan member, of which I thought he would have been more understandable than he actually was) I put together a fairly conclusive .avi showing strange bits and I showed the avi to relevant people. The people on the defence whine constantly and put thoughts in your head about how this can be ruled out because this happened (comms etc). Then i was dealing with sonofpi3 (who seems to have magically run off the face of the planet since his ETF2L ban) I spent a long time listening to what he had to say when i hastily banned him and the things he said were very accurate and useful points which swinged my decision to unban him. I kept close tabs on Trojan as I wanted to pay more attention to him instead of having a high profile ban hastily made; ultimately ETF2L banned him and everyone praised.

What i basically have to say is that both parties need to chill out a bit, cheating in TF2 is no where near as vital as it was in games such as TFC, and is much harder to spot in TF2 given its pace and experience needed in said class and situation. But more friendlier communication and interaction is probably needed from the admins to public decisions such as this, it’s your audience; and seeing as Arx has made lots of valid points I thought perhaps a more appropriate response could have come out of it over locking a debatable thread. ETF2L admins do put lots of time and effort into situations like this I trust, but you need to be giving something back to back yourselves up your going to get walked over in manners such as this.
This is not a flame thread; just simple and friendly advise from a spectator with experience in this field.

What you described arx about reputation about someone being misbanned from all leagues and all that would be shit admins, which I dont think there are many admins across all of the leagues that would actually do that. No admin of another league should ban “because etf2l said so”. I can tell you for a fact from when I was an admin that Fean0r and bones from ED and WP want to see proof from ETF2L’s decision, so if ED admins and WP admins are pushing for a ban or indeed banning you can assume the proof is pretty reliable because they have been given it and have seen it and made their own decision.

If your an admin and will make a call based simply on somebody elses say so, then quit, because your shit. Its that simple.

Yeah sorry bury, that wasnt at you it was at admins in general that should be big enough to make their own decisions. I know you are and know from experience that both WP and ED ask for proof. Im watching football and posts were made while I was in the reply box. I just edited, sorry about the confusion. <3

funny story.
So Teoch asked me the demos from Flo i talked about before and, since i forgot the name, i launched the demos to be sure it was the good one. i decided to watch a bit once again and i realized there were indead a few things which can be considered weird. (on a few points, he reminded me of an old cheater)

I watched the demo again and now, i can’t say if he s clean or not because of the weird things… but he s so crap/dumb on the other hand it s hard to be sure by simply watching the demo.

I wish stv demos had not that crap lag, would’ve helped a lot :(

“new methods” my ass. this many innocent bans clearly shows this method isn’t working. now etf2l really looks like circus. such bans needs heavy explanations to show community that AC team have made right decision.

Im sorry if my team wants a fair and just system for dealing with potential cheaters in a game that really needs a strong community right now.

Renegade no other decent league in any other game gives out proof, and yet tf2 community seems to be so full of whine about this? IS it because someone is actually banning cheaters now where as in the last year its been non-existant?

No good will come of releaseing all the ways of how the admins catch cheats?? How many top div1 players/intellgient AC people need to be shown this proof for you to accept it?

As far as im aware wlv byte and winneh etc are on this AC team and their all intelligent people who have played the game at the top?