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promotion / demotion suggestion
Created 5th March 2009 @ 12:36
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Another time for all who cannot read on leaders forum:
Some suggestions to improve above mechanics:
Playoffs for all div3 2nd (4 teams). Best two get promoted.
Similar in div2: 7th and 8th placed teams (4) do playoffs. Best two stay, 3rd and 4th get demoted.
Important!
If teams drop on new season:
Due to this ranking there is enough reserve on stock to fill up the drops. E.g. one team on div2 drops at the beginning: promotion game between 3rd on div2 playoffs and 3rd on div3 playoffs. If more teams drop, first both 3rd get promoted (2 drops) or an additional game between 4th placed teams.
Why this?
Simple: To reduce disposal at filling up drops on higher divisions, to reduce influence of connections/favoritism, and: to reward teams that stick together and to not reward teams which reform shortly before season beginning and drop after few matches.
Similar arrangements for div4 promotes/demotes and lower div.
errrrrrrrr…
no
Good idea in principle but that would mean theres still as many open spots for the next season, from the dropped teams, so say if Vale want to be in next season the way you are saying is the spots in div 2/3 will be taken as more promotions were made, so we’ll end up having them in div4 where they rape!.
I’m not even sure how the current system works… But surely if the 7th/8th places in div2 are better than the 2nd places in div3, then the div2 teams should stay in div2? With your system there will always be 2 of the 7th/8th places that drop down, even if they’re better than the div3 teams.
tapley: in this case, these teams play too on playoffs, if they place 3rd or above, they get promoted after first drop, assuming they win against 3rd on the other playoff.
F2: yes, that’s it, maybe they are better but they had their chance to stay on div2, if placed on 1st or 2nd playoff place and there’s much more chance if teams drop on new season.
tbh atm it seems the “top” div 3 teams (1-3 best from each div) can surely stand their ground against the bottom ranked div2 teams.
Good idea. :P
then i would suggest to make a playoff with the 2nd best team of all div 3 and the teams that place 7th and 8th in the two div 2, just to make it fair and square as f2 mentioned
too much playoffs then, 2 times 8 team playoff. Besides, I think first of a division should get a promotion without any additional game -> last 2 on div2 get demoted w/o.
On your calculation it’s then 8 teams on div2 vs. 4 teams on div3 ?!
edit: basicly, this is what i had in mind
the 2 teams that finish last in their div 2a and 2b get direct demotion from div 2, that makes 4 teams demoting to div 3.
the winner from every div 3 gets a direct promotion to div 2, thats 4 teams promoting to div 2 this season.
thats +-0 right
then the teams that finish 7th and 8th in div 2a and 2b get in a playoff, in this playoff, is also the teams that finish 2nd in div 3a, 3b, 3c and 3d
that makes it 4 div 2 teams risking a demotion and 4 div 3 teams getting the chance of promotion
if the div 2 demotion playoff and the div 3 promotion playoff would be separate, it could end up that the div 2 teams that got demoted still rip apart the div 3 teams that got promoted, which imo is stupid :p
my five cents
Basically what we’re trying to do, is have the absolute bottom of div Y go down a div, and have the top of div Y-1 go up a div automatically.
Take div 2/3 for example. The numbers 1 of div 3 will go up, which means the numbers 9 and 10 of div 2 will have to go down.
Then we have the playoffs. In theory, the worst teams of div 2 should be better than the best of division 3. (ofcourse this doesn’t work, because of teams changing, errors in the placements etcetera)
Anyway, based on that idea we’re doing the following:
The best of div 3, play the worst of div 2. (1 match each). The winners of each match go to div 2, the losers to div 3. The matchups of these playoff matches are done randomly.
One could argue that this still won’t get the best teams in the 2nd div for sure. This is true. Say you are a div 2 team that ended 7th. You could happen to meet an exceptionally good div 3 2nd placed team, of whom you’ll lose. Now, there’s another div 2 team that ended 8th, they could meet a lesser team that ended 2nd in their div 3, and the div 2 team wins that. But hey, didn’t you end up above that div 2 team that stayed in div 2? You did! It’s jsut a case of bad luck here, we can’t go and divide the matchups based on who we think is good or not, that would call for bias.
This describes the ideal situation, with no drops. But there always are dropped teams. This gives us a little room to play with. Last season, i managed to make the playoffs so that, if every team who finished s3 would return for s4, the only free spots would be in div 4/5. I had to play a bit with the original scheme, like auto-promote every team ending 2nd in div 4 instead of having them play a playoff. This was due to the many drops in div 3. I also had some div 3 teams play eachother in a playoff, to fill up div 2.
The most important was, however: that every team that was promised a playoff match, was given one, AND that as much teams as possible got a promotion. This favors teams who played that season over new teams. So in a way, stability gets you something aswell.
Ofcourse, not every team returns for the next season, which will give us gaps in our division placements. This is what gives us a bit of room to play with. We can put those teams that were relegated to div 3 in div 2 again for example, or move that hot new team up to div 2 immediately instead of them having to begin in div 6.
Also, we tend to have more promotion/relegation spots and matches in the lower divisions, as stey are harder to predict where to place and more prone to skill changes. This leads to us automatically promoting the top 2 in div 5 and 6, instead of just the #1, like in div 2/3.
On a sidenote, You can see who gets promotion/relegation on the league tables: green = up, red = down, blue = playoff.
P.S.: morf is thinking what i’m thinking.
I suggested to change the playoffsystem (you described in general direct pro/demotion in your post), direct promotion/demotion is fine as it is. My proposal was also to systematise the process of filling up dropped slots.
read my 5th paragraph ;)
I don’t like this system of ‘playing with the scheme’. Differences regarding performance on 7th and 8th places at div2a and div2b can vary very much especially at the end of the season relating to leaving players to higher placed teams, therefore the result of a game between 2nd placed at divisions 3 against one of them is too much related to admin’s choices of opponents.
Filling up dropped slots needs some system in my opinion, 2nd side effect of these proposed playoffs.
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