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A poll would at least be worth it for next season. Although probably a waste of time as a) the etf2l admins will probably ignore the results anyway, and b) we will get the usual cretins screaming “herp derp this argument is old wah wah” if you don’t want to discuss it don’t read the thread, no-one is forcing you

Why not play with kritz on if viewers like random kills, gibs and explosions???

Quoted from Asteryz

Loads of people talking about growth of TF2 as an E-sport. But What does SC2 have that we don’t? loads of viewers. 90% of those viewers are casual players, or not even players at all. (I’m guilty) This proves the people who think the oppinion of higher division players weigh more wrong.
For example: F1 has restrictions on turbo’s. If you remove it: Cars will go faster, getting the pole position becomes more important and Ferari & Mercedes will be able to abuse their money and win every race. But during the race overtaking is next to impossible. AKA boring as hell. So to please the spectators (the ones who make burning rubber and gas a sport) there is a restriction on turbo’s and spoilers etc. To give worse teams a fighting chance. To keep it entertaining.

So for TF2 to grow as an E-sport: We need to give casual viewers what they want. Quick guess: Epic killstreaks, Epic airshots, Epic whipes, Epic crit stickies, Epic sticky traps, Epic deflects. Not great tactics, they’r to dumb to see that.

I’m not saying I like cinnamon. But If you want TF2 to be a genuine E-sport, thats the direction you should be heading.

Ps: nitpickers, yes my analogy is about restrictions. And no I don’t think thats what viewers want to see in TF2.

Interesting point you make.

I watched the ESEA LAN Finals over the weekend, and it the games were exciting I don’t think it was the unlocks that made it so. For me at least, it was the quality of the casters who really maintain my interest and were able to explain the reasoning behind the plays and suggest things that might happen, and it is exactly the same in SC2.

It’s good commentators that make SC2 enjoyable for the masses. I rarely play SC2 but I watch the GSL all the time because I love Tastosis, not only are they likeable characters but they offer genuine insight to the games. CBear provided this same one-two combo of being a lively, likeable character and knowledge on the game.

What TF2 really lacks is top level players who are capable and prepared to promote the game through casting. Byte is the only caster at this level in Europe, and I’m not being elitist or bashing TF2TV or ThePledge who really do a great job, but my proposition is that we don’t need unlocks to make the game exciting, we need casters and coverage that illuminate the thought processes and subtleties of truly great play.

If anything the teams at the ESEA highlight how much the unlocks can be abused to create this individualistic low risk, high reward gameplay. Scouts getting horribly out of position in failed attempts to get picks simply bonking away unpunished. Similarly soldiers using gunboats and equalizer to the same effect; try and get a pick, fail, escape.

It has nothing to do with them being bad players, they are simply taking advantage of the rule set, but I felt that ultimately the game they played seem much less team orientated and more a case of roll the dice and see how lucky we get.

TF2 is one of the most spectator friendly games there is out there. It’s easy to watch and interesting even if you dont have a clue what is going on. Good caster/commentator on top of that will make it definately more interesting. Issue is that we need a loads of more promotion to the game and far as I see there is close to none of it.

The issue with it is each game is long, you’re looking at 2x 30min maps making an hour, which most casual spectators will not have the time for. Those with only a slight interest in the game are also likely to tune out at the first stalemate situation. Skill is just much less evident in this game, and that feeling of “wow amazing shot” is few and far apart compared to say QL.

Yeah, airshots are awesome but it’s still happening too little, take the i42 finals for example when Oggy was waiting for one but it never came. If I wanted to see awesome I’d watch a frag movie.

I don’t watch TF2 live to get entertained because I just can’t, while I do watch QL or SC2 matches. I only watch TF2 to learn, but maybe that’s just me.

Quoted from kuma

The issue with it is each game is long, you’re looking at 2x 30min maps making an hour, which most casual spectators will not have the time for. Those with only a slight interest in the game are also likely to tune out at the first stalemate situation. Skill is just much less evident in this game, and that feeling of “wow amazing shot” is few and far apart compared to say QL.

about the time aspect, while true, CSS and COD also have roughly the same time ratio to it if youve ever had to watch/play a MR15 game on CSS which has gone down to the wire and goes 15-15, 16-14, it does drag and is long, Ive been there and played a pcw on CSS that lasted an hour it does happen

now, Im not saying thats an excuse, but you look at how the other games keep the spectator, its the “wow” factor and the shout casters. I dont want to use these examples but i40 final vs i42. Take away who was playing, but i40 had what the fans wanted: the wow factor with airshots, ubersaws and backstabs, and then byte with his shoutcasting. i42 didnt have that, and no offence to TF2TV for their shoutcasting as they did a good job, but the crowd was lost because of the game wasnt highlight reel material, and thats no faults of anyone, you get those games, it happens, but it was still a good game

you cant stop the stalemate issue, because you get those standoffs, but we can make it interesting for the specs surely?