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Quoted from Martn

Maybe im doing this wrong but, i can get my soldiers at nearly 300 hp to mid without equalizer, in the same amount of time as it take with equalizer.

It’s called being a skilled medic and having a heal order methinks, so congrats I guess :)

Quoted from Asteryz

Loads of people talking about growth of TF2 as an E-sport. But What does SC2 have that we don’t? loads of viewers. 90% of those viewers are casual players, or not even players at all. (I’m guilty) This proves the people who think the oppinion of higher division players weigh more wrong.
For example: F1 has restrictions on turbo’s. If you remove it: Cars will go faster, getting the pole position becomes more important and Ferari & Mercedes will be able to abuse their money and win every race. But during the race overtaking is next to impossible. AKA boring as hell. So to please the spectators (the ones who make burning rubber and gas a sport) there is a restriction on turbo’s and spoilers etc. To give worse teams a fighting chance. To keep it entertaining.

So for TF2 to grow as an E-sport: We need to give casual viewers what they want. Quick guess: Epic killstreaks, Epic airshots, Epic whipes, Epic crit stickies, Epic sticky traps, Epic deflects. Not great tactics, they’r to dumb to see that.

I’m not saying I like cinnamon. But If you want TF2 to be a genuine E-sport, thats the direction you should be heading.

Ps: nitpickers, yes my analogy is about restrictions. And no I don’t think thats what viewers want to see in TF2.

quoting for epicness

could not be more wrong if you tried :(

Quoted from Asteryz

Loads of people talking about growth of TF2 as an E-sport. But What does SC2 have that we don’t? loads of viewers. 90% of those viewers are casual players, or not even players at all. (I’m guilty) This proves the people who think the oppinion of higher division players weigh more wrong.
For example: F1 has restrictions on turbo’s. If you remove it: Cars will go faster, getting the pole position becomes more important and Ferari & Mercedes will be able to abuse their money and win every race. But during the race overtaking is next to impossible. AKA boring as hell. So to please the spectators (the ones who make burning rubber and gas a sport) there is a restriction on turbo’s and spoilers etc. To give worse teams a fighting chance. To keep it entertaining.

So for TF2 to grow as an E-sport: We need to give casual viewers what they want. Quick guess: Epic killstreaks, Epic airshots, Epic whipes, Epic crit stickies, Epic sticky traps, Epic deflects. Not great tactics, they’r to dumb to see that.

I’m not saying I like cinnamon. But If you want TF2 to be a genuine E-sport, thats the direction you should be heading.

Ps: nitpickers, yes my analogy is about restrictions. And no I don’t think thats what viewers want to see in TF2.

one of the best arguments for unlocks i have seen.

Just replying to something mentioned a few pages back.

The top of TF2 is all relative. In TFC, there was around 3 or 4 cycles of the top teams leaving the game. You had the generation with a team like [UE] (Hello Night who still plays TF2 :P). They were undefeated for about 2 years in officials, they were simply amazing at the game at the time. They quit TF2. TFC was dead.

Skipping ahead a bit, you had the whole, [DW], [SHS], =BC=, Era. These teams were amazing at the game, and then they quit the scene. At the time of them quitting, the level of the game had increased so much, that actually, these non-superstars were the new superstars of TFC.

After these teams left, a new top level emerged. You had the teams such as r~, AoN, =mcl=, iL etc.. By this time, the game had evolved so much, that you were simply talking perfection of techniques. This was maybe, 8 or so years after the game’s release. These players were the top of TFC, before the game started to truely die off.

Here is why I posted all of this.

If the [UE] guys were still playing today? Would they be better than the 2nd generation of players? the 3rd generation of players? If r~ were playing today, would they be better than the 3rd generation of players?

In my opinion… no. They would not. They were good at THEIR time. They were good at the game as it was played back then. They were good at those techniques, but they would be absolutely nothing today.

It is even starting to happen in TF2. You look at the teams at the start of the game. Teams like Kompaniet, United, FoF, 4K. Was this not the golden era of TF2? Some of these teams were simply amazing. Some of the players, were amazing! Fojji ripping up whole teams, Mick actually being good… etc..

Several of those players are playing today, and are very mediocre. Others are still playing and are remaining at the top of TF2. The majority of them have quit playing the game. New players have come up and surpassed their level, and this is happening all the time. The average players of those days have stepped up their game, as the game evolves. I can name a tonne of players who, let’s say, 1.5 years ago I would have considered to be ‘the best in our game’, who are now just… nothing.

If the top of TF2 left today, those players would always have the mindset of, “TF2 is dead, the skill level is so low now”, but infact, TF2 will continue to grow, and the skill level will continue to get higher, regardless if the best players of today leave the game. And by the end of TF2’s competitive life, you will find the that several of the top players today that are still playing in 5 years time, would have hit their skill level cap while others continue to progress.

The highest skill level that TF2 will see in it’s game life, is nowhere near where we currently are, and I highly suspect that only a fraction of the best players today, will end up being considered the best players of the game during it’s life.

Fuck me, that was almost biblical! ;p

Quoted from Asteryz

Loads of people talking about growth of TF2 as an E-sport. But What does SC2 have that we don’t? loads of viewers. 90% of those viewers are casual players, or not even players at all.

where do you think those loads of viewers of competitive SC2 come from? it’s not just random :P i think SC2 is a more popular competitive game, because even on the most basic level of play, SC2 is competitive in it’s nature.

TF2 is not. the focus is on pub play and the competitive aspect was created by the community afterwards. competitive TF2 has never been Valve’s primary focus (however, they don’t ignore it completely; they provide occasional updates via their blog)

i’m completely confused reading the next part of your post. you imply that restriction in F1 provides more exciting play, but seem to be saying that TF2 should be unrestricted in unlock rules in order to be (more) exciting.

I suppose with increasing division number the number of allowed weapons should be decrease. For example, Premium Division – vanilla + medic (no eq), 1st Division – vanilla + medic + equalizer etc. Advantages of this solution:

1. The basic divisions from publics will play in the environment which they are accustomed.

2. Premium division will play without any random (equalizer for example).

3. Viewers can see the funny kill-streaks, 12 stickies traps and very unusual hats.

4. Understandable rules for all without talks before each match (as at ESL atm).

Quoted from Angel

I suppose with increasing division number the number of allowed weapons should be decrease. For example, Premium Division – vanilla + medic (no eq), 1st Division – vanilla + medic + equalizer etc. Advantages of this solution:

1. The basic divisions from publics will play in the environment which they are accustomed.

2. Premium division will play without any random (equalizer for example).

3. Viewers can see the funny kill-streaks, 12 stickies traps and very unusual hats.

4. Understandable rules for all without talks before each match (as at ESL atm).

No, because there are plenty of people in lower divs that want vanilla as well.