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Please keep the discussion on topic. We are not discussing, which unlock ruleset is better, we are discussing ways how to find out which ruleset is better (or preferred)!

Quoted from CanFo

Please keep the discussion on topic. We are not discussing, which unlock ruleset is better, we are discussing ways how to find out which ruleset is better (or preferred)!

it’s relevant because it’s clear from how “lower div” players argue about unlocks/maps, that they aren’t as aware on the fine details of tf2 gameplay.

they should focus on improving their knowledge, rather than arguing for rules when they aren’t aware of the full implications of what they are suggesting. it’s mandatory to base rules around the highest level of play in any competitive game. up until then, focus on improving your own play.

just poll each team leader from the prem teams of S8 and be done with it. it’s obvious who those are, even if multiple leaders are set.

so, basically #2 & #3 combined.

Quoted from kuma

[…]

it’s relevant because it’s clear from how “lower div” players argue about unlocks/maps, that they aren’t as aware on the fine details of tf2 gameplay.

they should focus on improving their knowledge, rather than arguing for rules when they aren’t aware of the full implications of what they are suggesting. it’s mandatory to base rules around the highest level of play in any competitive game. up until then, focus on improving your own play.

just poll each team leader from the prem teams of S8 and be done with it. it’s obvious who those are, even if multiple leaders are set.

so, basically #2 & #3 combined.

Some lower div teams prefer to play for fun and not WIN OR DIE prem style which makes you leave a league for a ruleset, so they like to play their way and they represent a part of the league. I myself prefer to play with no unlocks since many teams QQ about using them, so ye, many lower div teams think same way of banning unlocks.

My opinion, get a specific ruleset for each div (or each group of divs, say prem-2/3 get a ruleset vote, 4-6 get a ruleset vote), my guess is you’ll end up with the 2 rulesets being identical (with differences in ratios ofc), everyone will be happy.

Quoted from WildEast

[…]
My opinion, get a specific ruleset for each div (or each group of divs, say prem-2/3 get a ruleset vote, 4-6 get a ruleset vote), my guess is you’ll end up with the 2 rulesets being identical (with differences in ratios ofc), everyone will be happy.

Having different rulesets per divisions brings different problems, like making it harder to progress from one into the other smoothly (you will be used to playing one way, and then you have to stop playing that way in order to progress).

Quoted from MR JOHNSON

Just an interesting piece of data, ignoring dropped teams, assuming that there are not more teams than the ones playing at the moment (actively), 10 teams per division. Assuming each teams get one vote each that would be along the lines of if each division is weighted equally:

34.3% 28.6% 17.1% 8.6% 5.7% 2.9% 2.9%

With a linearly increased weighting (i.e. d6 x1, d5 x2 .. prem x7, obviously the multiplier can change) would be:

14.1% 23.5% 21.8% 14.1% 11.8% 7.1% 8.2%

from d6 -> prem

If we on the other hand say that the voting power of all the combined d6 teams should equal the voting power of the d5 teams should equal the voting power of prem teams etc.. it would amount to:

0.12% 0.14% 0.24% 0.48% 0.71% 1.43% 1.43%

of voting power per team (once again with d6 -> prem)

this. Every division should have identical weight to every other division. and not just a prefixed multiplier.

I still think prem should have 1.43% +1 though.

Just an idea for possible weighting (thanks skyride):

prem x 23 = 16,67 % of the total votes
div 1 x 16 = 11,59 %
div 2 x 11 = 15,94 %
div 3 x 7 = 15,22 %
div 4 x 4 = 17,39 %
div 5 x 2 = 14,49 %
div 6 x 1 = 8,70 %

prem – div 2 = 44,20 %
prem – div 3 = 59,42 %

Would this be an idea worth following?

Quoted from dauk

I like the 8th idea. We would need volunteers from which we could pick few representatives of lover and higher divisions.

Any ideas who should be a representative and how they should be picked? Will add that to my first post then.

Quoted from MR JOHNSON

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Yes but damage you can read from a sheet too. Note I’m not arguing for or against unlocks here, but I do believe that using public experience is not sufficient to determine how they will affect competitive.

I think the Bonk is an excellent example, or at least a clear one, on a public server the Bonk can be used to escape get behind lines, you might even check for sticky traps, but none of those actions are really gonna propagate toward how your team will end up doing. Now playing with Old_Grandma, self-proclaimed Bonk-king I know how effective the unlock can be and is in a competitive match, a scout getting behind in comp can force a whole team back, kill a medic or whatever. A sticky trap crossed with the help of Bonk can definitly be a changing factor in, say, a round of Gravelpit. A bonk helping the scout escape in a 6v6 game is something huge, suddenly you haven’t lost 1/6th of your team. Now I’m not arguing for or against Bonk, but the ramifications of using it on a public server widely differs from that of a 6v6 game.

Just to get by Canfo’s post: By using Bonk I want to illustrate that using public servers is not a viable way to determine what should be used in a competitive game, and as such is a bad way of determining how unlocks should be decided.

Off topic –

I could write out a whole paragraph about how the pistol wins in x amount of situations (public or competitive)

Option 8 only

Assemble a balanced council of players with knowledge and from all divisions for example 12 players, 2 from each division (this already gives more weight to higher divisions than an open poll).

The only thing I will add is that, if competitive TF2 moves too far away from the public experience (where 99% of the player base starts) it will die a lot faster

polls should not end with a compromise result; such as cinnamon. if a majority vote of 50.5% comes through. well then that is your result. you have a majority of 0.5% so go with that result no fuss no moaning about slender margins or anything. That is a concrete result.

I remember seeing results come through in advantage for some things and them being denied because the results were “too close” being 51% on one side. it was just stupid.