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Suggestions for "fair polls"
Created 25th April 2011 @ 21:41
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prem should not be given any extra points when it comes to voting. All seem like immature jerks the higher up you go anyways… just let every team cast one vote if they are participating and let everybodies vote count just as much. Then people will realise that the silent people who just play and don’t whine in the forums maybe generally want this and that. and if that isn’t good enough for people then theres plenty of leagues to choose from.
just don’t let prem get more voting powers, bunch of sissies that can’t even accept some of the actual good changes like bonk sandvich or something like that.
3. if not 2. and on 1 team can be only 2 leaders
combine 3 and 4
I think 1 vote per team is perfect.
About the unlocks – let the prems/div1 have their vanilla [But if both teams agree on any unlocks they can use them. The teams tend to agree on vanilla this season anyway so i dont see a problem there]
And maps – there is no way you gonna find like 7 maps which everyone is ok with.
When Bazillion got added in the map pool everyone was screaming – snakewater! But if you search for a game by adding that you want to play snakewater – no one will play against you. Even in the pixelpickups nobody plays it saying it sucks. And MOST of the players hate warmfront which kinda is a replacement for obscure [again not a favorite]
So the vote wont solve much. Just puts the admins in a position where they can say – that`s what you voted for. Well maybe then people will stop hating on the admins so its a good thing :>
Last edited by doks,
Why would we make the mistake of jumping into a democratic shithole? A true organisation cannot be run of democracy but only an evil sate of power hungry admins with only one goal of making as much money as possible. If we want to become a true power in the e-sports world we must first stop thinking about what’s fair and start thinking about what is RIGHT! We should bestow all power to a head admin and stop demanding that R@+0R X Tw4T from division 6 has a voice. I would also like to state that the entire TF2 head admin team needs to change.
I vote for myself, anyone else in?
I would agree on not having votes and making decisions by what is best, not what is voted for. If you will start to vote then it will be majority of div 6-4 teams since there are most of them, and as you have seen from warmfront topic, people at that level loves hiding from snipers, doing stupid stuff, going pyro on mid and so on. It’s stupid to leave decisions for players that play and know game much less, just because of equal rights or stuff.
Also I think we need admins from higher division to make those changes, not saying current admins do bad work, they do good in forum management and other stuff, but yeah need more competitive “pros” influence.
Last edited by dauk,
Quoted from Mordi
No point voting for unlocks, I don’t know if you have noticed, but the current unlocks seems to be disliked. Vanilla + medic unlocks is (are :D?) the best solution.
Yes, some teams seem to dislike the current unlock ruleset of ETF2L. Others seem to like it very much. It is impossible to tell, what the majority wants (majority = all teams, not only prem and div 1), hence a poll :)
Quoted from Mordi
And if you (etf2l admins) just took a look at the map poll votes before season 9 you wouldn’t be dead.
We picked the top 5 of Koeitjes poll + bazillion (the mapmaker had proven himself before) + warmfront (which was not in the poll but has been promoted by some prem teams, coldfront was on 13) so I really do not know where you got the idea that we did not consider the public opinion for the map pool but let us not open this chest again…
Also, it is impossible to find a map pool everyone is okay with ;-) (Yes, not everyone voted a “5” for granary and badlands in Koeitje’s poll… I know! Hard to believe!)
Quoted from Tornf4lk
prem should not be given any extra points when it comes to voting.
This is my opinion (!) as well but I can understand that some people want the premium division teams to have more say for the rules (they are prem for a reason. I know, you heard that before).
Also, taking into account that there is a max of 10 prem teams and 120 div 6 teams, it would only be fair to weight their votes a bit higher.
I am not talking about a 1:20 ratio, more like a 1:7 ratio at max. You have to consider that many division 6 team will not bother voting in polls anyway after all.
edit:
Quoted from dauk
If you will start to vote then it will be majority of div 6-4 teams since there are most of them, and as you have seen from warmfront topic, people at that level loves hiding from snipers, doing stupid stuff, going pyro on mid and so on. It’s stupid to leave decisions for players that play and know game much less, just because of equal rights or stuff.
Also I think we need admins from higher division to make those changes, not saying current admins do bad work, they do good in forum management and other stuff, but yeah need more competitive “pros” influence.
I fail to see how chosing other than the 4 standard classes is a bad thing. TF2 offers 9 classes, not only 4. Correct me, if I am wrong here.
Hiding does not have to be a bad thing as well, it just needs a better coordination by the other team to check all hiding spots when pushing.
I disagree with you that the majority of the votes will come from division 4 – 6, by the way. Maybe the total votes will be a bit higher but prem – 3 care more about the game and its development and are more likely to participate. However, division 4 – 6 makes up the largest part of our playerbase so how would excluding them from votes be a good thing?
I would not mind more high level play admins as well but we can not pull them out of a hat (and that decision is up to the head admins, of course).
I am very proud of you, by the way. I only deleted one offtopic comment so far ;-)
edit by ashkan: That’s because I deleted two ;-)
edit 2: Make that three.
Last edited by ashkan,
In a better world, one vote per team, weighted or not, should work perfectly. As it is, I see a lot of team leaders just casting their vote without it actually representing the team’s opinion. If the vote is anonymous, then there isn’t even a way to track it.
You could argue that it’s not Etf2l’s fault and that a team where the leader does that is deficient anyway. But it still makes the poll less representative.
Maybe that’s one more reason to make the votes weighted, since I’d expect that to happen much less in higher divs.
No voting, giving people in the lower divisions a vote is pointless. They don’t understand what they’re doing regarding 6v6 comp TF2 – especially when it effects the TOP players TOP TOP TOP<<<< yeah that's a top because they're fucking top and they're top because they know what they're doing and have spent a lot of time learning their game WHY WHY HWY WHY WHWYWEYWHFWYFFHwe FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO YOU THINK LOWER DIV PLAYERS HAVE THE SAME IDEA WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND TO HEAR ADMINS SAY THAT IS STUPID AND MAKES ME WANT TO CRY THE TEARS OF A THOUSAND SUNS. It's exactly like giving retards irl a vote – they just go and vote BNP or some shitty party. DO YOU REALLY WANT A BNP RUN ETF2L!?!??! DO YOU?!?!?!?
edit*
oh yeah, the admins say it because they are lower end div new players.
edit 2*
Oh yeah no votes for females or minoritys please.
Last edited by Swarlz,
I am not a big fan of the voting system and I’ll explain why:
I think the head-admins should think about where do you want ETF2L to be at, in a year orso? Do you want it to become a player-run league? With lots of input in unlocks and map-pools? Or do you want to push for a proffesional league with high standard games?
If you want a player-run league then option 4 is best. If you want to be a proffesional league pushing TF2 further then option 3.
I simply don’t think giving division 4-6 a voice in how to run a league is a good idea.
Last edited by Andee,
Actually lets screw all the players get a voice thingy.
How about we find ~10 – 15 players who have been in tf2 long enough to know whats best for the league and community. We could make a thread and suggest the players who deserve to be in the “***” [lets figure out names later…]
And then they would be the voice of the players.
Last edited by doks,
Quoted from dauk
Also I think we need admins from higher division to make those changes, not saying current admins do bad work, they do good in forum management and other stuff, but yeah need more competitive “pros” influence.
if you find a “pro” who wants to contribute/does a lot of work call me
Quoted from baerbel
[…]
if you find a “pro” who wants to contribute/does a lot of work call me
I believe there may be not “pros” but at least few players from div 2-prem that would like to contribute to legue they play. I would definitely apply for that.
Quoted from CrashSite
The only problem with #4 is that opinions within a team can be conflicting, apart from that it is the best I think…
Agreed, but consider that you’re a team for a reason; when you play your games you are going to be on the same wavelength.
Random example: you may have a tactic that involves a pyro on mid – the player fulfulling this role may not agree with it, but, you know, you take one for the team.
The same applies here; You’d vote as a team, you can work out your team’s vote by having a huge argument on mumble before it’s cast, but it’s nothing short of a very viable solution.
#4 go.
Quoted from dauk
If you will start to vote then it will be majority of div 6-4 teams since there are most of them
Something you have to seriously consider:
In all previous “community polls”, the average of voters/division was somewhere around 25%. This goes for div6 as well prem as well as any in between. Saying that there’s more “low team votes”… that’s only maths. Pretty fucking expected.
Quoted from CanFo
You have to consider that many division 6 team will not bother voting in polls anyway after all.
I say the same thing again: an average of 25% of all divisions voted in the previous “community polls”.
This is complete bullshit. I’m not trying to be disrespectful here, but IMO anyone and any team that doesn’t care enough to make his opinion clear in an OFFICIAL ETF2L POLL is a disgrace to this community. It’s these people that will cry again afterwards, like it has happened so many times before.
The solution?
Force people to fucking vote.
And when I say force, I mean force (“you cannot play in this season before you havent taken the time to fill out the following: SURVEY GOES HERE”)
dont care if it’s a vote for every team or for everyone, but the latter would make no one “feel left out” or whatever, people couldnt cry as hard.
and for the love of all, make it possible to have division-based unlock rules.
Last edited by Waebi,
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