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My turn for an ETF2L rant.
Created 10th March 2011 @ 10:23
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Quoted from Spira
xzr may I ask why you want vanilla so badly and why you are so unwilling to embrace new ideas?
Because our TOP teams are leaving ETF2L, what part of this don’t people understand. It’s kind of fucking important.
Let me put it into a context some of you might understand.
Prem football, a new rule is brought in so if you tackle someone they can’t move for 20seconds. All the top teams boycot it and stop playing football in the premiership. But it’s cool wait guys Sunday morning footballers love this rule :D lets all play it, it’s cool football isn’t dead. O wait.
Quoted from Swarlz
[…]
Prem football, a new rule is brought in so if you tackle someone they can’t move for 20seconds. All the top teams boycot it and stop playing football in the premiership. But it’s cool wait guys Sunday morning footballers love this rule :D lets all play it, it’s cool football isn’t dead. O wait.
Please when givin examples use real world examples
since the premier league has little to no dictation on how football is governed.
FIFA sets a rule set which is suitable for everyone (lets call this a cinamon rule set)
The Premier league demands several things, FIFA tells them no as it is not in the best interests of the game, the premier league complains and then carries on as normal
Perhaps because it is a business, they threaten a breakaway league, but it hasn’t happened and wont because of the costs involved.
However back to TF2
Their is a league available for the needs of the Premier teams (they have changed their rule set to exactly what was asked for) , they (the premier teams) all said they were going, all I have said is see you have fun, hope it all works out for you let us enjoy the cinnamon league. Be it with the 349 teams that have signed up or with 20 teams in future if cinnamon is the wrong rule set and everyone in europe joins ESL
Quoted from Tikcus
[…]
Please when givin examples use real world examples
since the premier league has little to no dictation on how football is governed.
FIFA sets a rule set which is suitable for everyone (lets call this a cinamon rule set)The Premier league demands several things, FIFA tells them no as it is not in the best interests of the game, the premier league complains and then carries on as normal
Perhaps because it is a business, they threaten a breakaway league, but it hasn’t happened and wont because of the costs involved.
However back to TF2
Their is a league available for the needs of the Premier teams (they have changed their rule set to exactly what was asked for) , they (the premier teams) all said they were going, all I have said is see you have fun, hope it all works out for you let us enjoy the cinnamon league. Be it with the 349 teams that have signed up or with 20 teams in future if cinnamon is the wrong rule set and everyone in europe joins ESL
First of all that example was fine for the point I was trying to get across. Second of all just no… You can’t just sit back and fuck up ETF2L a league which has had so much time put into it by it’s players. I am not taking a stance on the unlock situation but sitting back and letting top players leave is fucking stupid it really is. It could fuck up the entire sponsor situation drop the skill level, I also believe other leagues don’t care enough about TF2 for them to be a viable alternative. All of this because a few admins think that’s whats best without ANY say from the community just wow… really
It’s funny how people can say that premier teams’ opinion shouldn’t be more important or their opinion shouldn’t weigh more than the others’ when making a decision regarding all-things league.
Most of the players in these teams have been playing tf2 since season 1/2. Most of the players making these claims I stated above are div 5/6 OR have had max 3 seasons in contact with the game. Are these people seriously claiming that the people over at premier don’t know what’s best for the game to move on or that their opinions are less correct than theirs?
Are these people SERIOUSLY claiming that all these top teams want is for their “wish” of vanilla to become true so they don’t have to adapt and eventually end up killing the game? So all the time they have spent playing tf2 was with the sole porpuse of killing the game as competitive e-sport? gg.
Please, make the right decision and listen to people that know about the game rather than people that came straight out of pubs – no offense, we’ve all been there once but this is just a fact.
Just my 2 cents
Last edited by Psyche,
In the same vein, you never see footballers complain that there is not enough variety of balls or playing fields. It shouldn’t be the circumstances that decide the outcome of the game.
Quoted from skeej
In the same vein, you never see footballers complain that there is not enough variety of balls or playing fields. It shouldn’t be the circumstances that decide the outcome of the game.
Can we move away from football, btw they change the football every tournament
And people complain, look at last world cup!
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=worldcup+2010+ball+complaints&meta=
Quoted from Psyche
It’s funny how people can say that premier teams’ opinion shouldn’t be more important or their opinion shouldn’t weigh more than the others’ when making a decision regarding all-things league.
Most of the players in these teams have been playing tf2 since season 1/2. Most of the players making these claims I stated above are div 5/6 OR have had max 3 seasons in contact with the game. Are these people seriously claiming that the people over at premier don’t know what’s best for the game to move on or that their opinions are less correct than theirs?
Are these people SERIOUSLY claiming that all these top teams want is for their “wish” of vanilla to become true so they don’t have to adapt and eventually end up killing the game? So all the time they have spent playing tf2 was with the sole porpuse of killing the game as competitive e-sport? gg.Please, make the right decision and listen to people that know about the game rather than people that came straight out of pubs – no offense, we’ve all been there once but this is just a fact.
Just my 2 cents
It’s because their opinion isn’t worth more than any others. Keep in mind we’re all equals here, no matter how big you think your e-peen is because you play in the highest division of a cartoon shooter.
The amount of time played is in no way a way to measure what is “best” for a game. Given the more you invest time in something, the more you are informed about a matter, but in this case it’s a matter of preference. With every opinion some will support it and some will oppose it and while it might not all sound the same, it basicly comes down to people not wanting to change their game, wether they have to adept or not is not the point (but seeing most tf2 players are lazy, you could say they’re not willing to adept). Saying they’ve put in so much time in to just kill the game is a bit misguided obviously, but they are not helping things by trying to force the community to be split apart by boycotting the league with the biggest competition. On the other hand of course you could say tf2 would lead a healthier life if more leagues get attention so the interest in the game keeps coming from multiple angles.
And please, keep your elitist opinion to yourself if you’re gonna be disrespectful to newer players or players that haven’t played as high as others. Like I said, it’s a matter of preference and in no way that should dictate for an entire league how the game should be played. With every opinion you have fanatics (call it left and right if you will), but to make things work you’ll have to comprise (call it the middle if you will), which is exactly what etf2l has tried with the cinnamon rule(s).
If anything, in my personal opinion about the unlocks, all it does is add variety in tactics and I’m surprised so many things are actually banned as most unlocks aren’t that groundbreaking as they all have pros and cons, except for a few of course. And with everything some will love it and others will hate it, hence the solution; talk and compromise (which unfortunately one side is completely refusing now).
But hey, just my 2 cents.
Last edited by demsii,
Quoted from xzr
[…]
your point being? ESEA is a league with entry fees, shit teams and shitty ac client? uh oh
ESEA Defense force here.
ESEA has its problems like any league, but entry fees and shit teams are not the problems that we have to deal with. The AC causes problems once and a while but any AC in any league will, see CEVO’s CMN or ESL’s Wire. With ESEA we pay an entry fee, but we get a huge bang for our buck even with the fact that no one uses the pug or scrim mod. ESEA provides us with prizes for every division, auto STV relays on every single match with statistic tracking and automatic demo upload which is a great help and boon to spectators who want to watch the game. ESEA also provides coverage through its own hired news writers from the community that cover every division in NA and release weekly articles. In NA we don’t have many lans that all the big teams can go to but with the ESEA lan they’ve provided a major lan that happens seasonally for us to have the best 4 teams in NA compete in which is pretty great and has helped the community. The post that he made linking the ruleset was also legitimate because that ruleset has been pretty effective this season with only a single mistake made when it came to unlocks that has since been remedied. Please leave our leagues out of this when you clearly don’t understand what ESEA even is and especially while you are the one bitching about your own.
I’d love to discuss at length and add an alternative viewpoint about the effect of each individual item on gameplay and what these items have added to gameplay after having played with most of them for multiple seasons, but it’s pretty obvious to me that the same people who want to ban items are the ones who will just dismiss anything I or anyone else says with “stupid yank” or “stupid shitty” or quite possibly a combination of the two.
Last edited by Kalkin,
Quoted from xzr
[…]
you may not
That’s fine, you’re cunt and no good for anything other than flaming anyway :> The game will die if it stays in vanilla. Vanilla isn’t fun to watch and I don’t see how that would bring in new players.
Ok, I’ll admit that somehow my post DID come out wrong. (Lack of sleep ftw)
Props for making me agree with you demourge on this one. I’ll admit I was wrong (badly).
In any case, I’ll try to rephrase what I wrote in a way that won’t make me look like a massive dickhead elitist shithead fucker:
Yes, everyone has a right to their opinion, everyone is an equal in the sense that they’re a player in the league and have a right to have a say in everything related to the league. No one is going to deny that, and hey – I fully support that.
What I wanted to say, in a way, is that all this discussion about the unlocks and all the players saying “go vanilla” or “go cinnamon” or whatever is all in all a bit silly.
I’ll explain:
On one side, I have to agree that when it comes to unlocks it IS a matter of choice and preference. Heck, after all if we do analyze things correctly div 5 and 6 contain a lot of teams that like to play this game for fun. I’m not saying ALL of the teams but from what I’ve experienced a lot of teams in those divisions do play for fun as in – I’m not really interested in evolving that much I’m rather more interested in playing the game as in on a daily basis and have fun fucking around with the people I’m used to playing with. Man, from my experience with these kind of players is that they’re awesome people and usually it’s great fun fucking around with them ( Not that other players in other divs aren’t the same – just saying like 90% of the people here are REALLY fun to play with). It’d be a shame to lose them and or not give them the chance to fuck around as much as they want. They’re entitled to have their cinnamon ruleset.
However, when you start to get to higher divs I also believe that the cinnamon ruleset just doesn’t work. I mean, people do take the game a lot more seriously or at least see the game in a much more competitive view rather than players in a lower div ( again, I stress – I’m speaking in GENERAL here, there are exceptions, please don’t be offended). And, naturally if the game has any type of possibility to become an successful e-sport that is both fun to play and to watch it has to come from the higher end of the tree. You simply can’t expect this to happen when you have people running around with shit unlocks (I’m going to use random examples and completely disregarding the actual rules that are in vigor right now for the sake of making a valid argument) that, although they might be “fun” change aspects of the game such as speed, randomness, etc for the worse. I’m talking about more stalemates, more and more weapons being able to 1 shot classes even though we don’t play with godamn crits for a LONG, LONG while now, weapons promoting turtling, etc , etc.
If we want the game to progress both on a fun level and on a competitive half-serious level we have to make a compromise. And this compromise is NOT having the vanilla ruleset enforced for the whole etf2l community and NOT having the whole cinnamon ruleset enforced for the whole etf2l community.
What I’m talking about is what people have said time and time again – A split.
All the people saying this will split the community are simply talking out of their arse, sorry to bring out the truth bomb but that’s all there is to it. Why talk about a split with 2 different rulesets and worry about it when you have TOP TEAMS leaving the biggest and most important European league?
It’s obvious there is no possible compromise as a whole, there must be a 50-50 compromise. Let the higher end teams play with their vanilla unlocks. It’s a lot better for the game as a whole in terms of being easier and more fun to watch. Just remember, even if you’re in a team that is pro-unlocks in a higher div and want to play with unlocks you can always mix around with other people and play with unlocks! League rules only apply to league games, there are no excuses here! Same applies to the lower divs, let them have cinnamon if that is what makes them enjoy the game more.
There is no need and there are no valid arguments that anyone can give to say that this – what is happening right now – is the best case scenario when it comes to a “compromise” like some people have stated, regarding unlocks. Etf2l can do better, so please, get to work, and do it. Don’t ruin the league, for the sake of every admin that has put his time and effort into making etf2l into what it is today and to all the people that have contributed for the game to be where it is now.
My 2 cents, Now fixed.
Quoted from Kalkin
“stupid yank”
Quoted from Spira
[…]
That’s fine, you’re cunt and no good for anything other than flaming anyway :> The game will die if it stays in vanilla. Vanilla isn’t fun to watch and I don’t see how that would bring in new players.
I’m actually pretty good.
Also Vanilla is fun to play and watch. Checkmate.
I’m not for vanilla, but how will the game die lol
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