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keep it on topic please I’d rather not get this thread locked.

You asked for it, and here it is. My awesome div6 input on the matter.
Do with it what you will.

Below I will give an overview of every weapon in the game. I will give my personal input on the positives/negatives for each weapon and then close off with 3 sets of rules.
The first ruleset will focus on allowing as much as possible while still making sure that the OP weapons are banned.
The second ruleset will be some sort of middle ground. The OP weapons will still be banned, but the ones that are not commonly used will be as well.
The third ruleset will be the “compromise” ruleset if you will. I can already tell you it’s not vanilla+med, but it’s extremely close to this (I expect about 10-15 additional weapons allowed across all classes at this time).

Now on to the weapons, I will categorize them by class for ease of reading.

Scout
– Force-A-Nature: This is a weapon that has had a lot of controversy in the past, but it has been nerfed again and again by Valve. All it really does is open up a new style of Scout play. I’d say it’s neither less or more skillful to use than the Scattergun, but a solid sidegrade.
– The Shortstop: I believe this weapon is slightly overpowered in it’s current state. While it is true that it has a lower base damage than the Scattergun, the increased firing speed, reloading speed and accuracy will give a higher damage output than either the Scattergun or the Force-A-Nature. It’s pretty much a pistol that hits for ~50 damage (looks like one too).

– Lugermorph: A reskin of the Pistol, absolutely no reason to ban this.
– Bonk! Atomic Punch: This is a good weapon that opens up a lot of tactical play. The upside is obviously the invincibility time, but for that you sacrifice the use of a Pistol, and you are extremely vulnerable while drinking. In my opinion this is one of the most balanced unlocks in the game.
– Crit-a-Cola: Quite a controversial unlock, and for good reason. Both taking and receiving minicrits for 6 seconds is indeed very balanced in public play. But as far as competitive play goes, with it’s much smaller numbers any decent scout could potentially dominate the other team with this alone with some good positioning and movement.
– Mad Milk: This is definitely overpowered. Receiving health just by hitting the target, and for your entire team at that, is just not needed. I’d even go as far as to say it’s slightly ovderpowered in public play, especially the 32-man spam servers.

– Sandman: This has been nerfed qutie a bit since it’s release, but it still isn’t suitable to be in a FPS shooter whatsoever. Stuns are bad, especially in a competitive environment (sidenote, I would personally replace the stun effect with damage output, which gives increased damage with range. That should make the weapon viable to be used with the right numbers)
– Holy Mackarel: Reskin of the Bat, no need to ban.
– Candy Cane: This weapon would be fine if it dropped medkits on a kill with the Candy Cane, but as it is now it gives one when you kill with ANY weapon while it is in the melee loadout slot. Even despite having the 25% vulnerability to explosions, I still believe this weapon is overpowered for a competitive environment. Health values are very fragile with such small a small number of players.
– Boston Basher: This weapon is quite good for building uber, but that’s all it is good for. Going into an actual melee fight with this would be silly and for that reason I don’t see any reason to even use it. If anything, it’s likely underpowered in most situations.
– Sun-on-a-Stick: This weapon is quite useless in competitive play. The minicrits vs burning targets is negligible because of the clear lack of pyros, so all it really does is give a 15% decrease in damage in exchange for aesthetics.

Soldier
– Direct (s)Hit: This weapon is fine. While it is true that it can one-shot certain classes, it really isn’t that dangerous due to the lack of splash damage. Extremely few Soldiers will use this weapon due to that reason because it is quite a big tradeoff in exchange for occasionally one-shotting another player.
– Black Box: This is a tough one to judge. On one end one could say it is overpowered because you gain health just bu hitting people (and as far as I know, it stacks, so hitting 2 people would grant 30hp (is this true? I haven’t experimented with this)). But on the other hand only having 3 rockets is a bigger tradeoff than one would assume. I think I lean more towards OP though.
– Rocket Jumper: This is plain useless. Unless you’re a crack shot with your shotgun and can avoid every single bit of damage that is. There is no way to succesfully use this weapon in actual combat.

– Buff Banner: This unlock sounds good on paper, but I would say it’s not suitable for competitive play. On one hand it would slow down the game due to the soldier using the Buff Banner playing more defensively (to not lose the charge), and on the other hand the effect goes through walls so a Soldier can just hide while letting his team have mini crits without risk for himself. also, it lasts 10 seconds.
– Gunboats: This unlock is perfectly balanced. It allows you to do a faster rollout and bounce around more, but on the other hand the Rocketjumping you do to make use of the Gunboats do in fact take up rockets, so the lack of a Shotgun is a rather large tradeoff considering you will likely run out of rockets more often.
– Battalion’s Backup: This unlock promotes unskillful play. Not only do you have to get hit to charge the meter, you also have to get hit to make the most out of it. It has the same issue as the Buff Banner, where you can just hide and not be at any risk while basically giving your entire team a mini ubercharge.

– Equalizer: While it is true that this is a straight upgrade from the Shovel, it is a much needed upgrade for an otherwise relatively weak class.
– Pain Train: What this weapon does, is basically make the Soldier a third Scout, especially when used together with the Gunboats. However, while it makes you into a third Scout, that also means you will likely have more duels with Scouts, in which case that 10% bullet vulnerability can be quite dangerous. It is a good unlock.
– Frying Pan: A reskin of the Shovel, should be allowed.

Pyro
– Backburner: A somewhat underpowered unlock. The crits when attacking from behind are quite nice, but the lack of the compression blast makes this weapon undesirable. The new Backburner mechanics from the beta, however, seem quite promising in getting this weapon on par with the Flamethrower.
– Degreaser: A good weapon to be used in conjunction with the Axtinguisher. But other than that I don’t see that much use in it.

– Flare Gun: This is an excellent unlock, it is a weapon that gives pyros a choice in playstyle. It is defintiely on par with the Shotgun and as I said, really depends on preference.

– Axtinguisher: Really raises the Pyro’s skill ceiling in my opinion. It is obviously better to be used with the Degreases, but even with the Flamethrower it is an excellent weapon. It possibly even makes the Pyro viable in competitive play.
– Homewrecker: This is only good when you have an Engineer on your team. This is an excellent weapon for some Highlander action, but in 6v6 it is rather useless. (unless possibly on Gravelpit)
– Powerjack: This is an upgrade to an already fine melee weapon. In competitive play it has no downsides due to the lack of rancom crits altogether. So this should probably get banned.
– Back Scratcher: The increased damage and health gained from medkits is indeed rather useful, but the whopping 75% reduction to heals by your Medic really is a hard blow.
– Sharpened Volcano Fragment: Quite a useless weapon. The igniting on hit thing may sound overpowered, but when you think about it it’s anything but that. If you want to ignite someone, you will probably use your Flamethrower and get more targets at once. So the 20% damage reduction really isn’t worth it in my opinion.

Demoman
– Loch-n-Load: This is one of the few weapons I haven’t had a chance to try out yet, so the following is pure speculation. From the looks of it this is the Demoman’s equivalent of the Direct Hit. So I would probably put down the same arguments as there. Having only 2 pipes seems quite harsh though.

– Chargin’ Targe: This is overal not that useful. Trading up the Sticky traps for this doesn’t seem like it’s really worth it. It could prove effective as a surprise strategy every once in a while, but that’s about where it ends.
– Scottish Resistance: A slightly underpowered sidegrade to the Sticky Launcher. Being able to set multiple traps is quite nice, but protecting yourself becomes near impossible with the increased arm time. Not to mention the general unreliability of Sticky jumping with this weapon.
– Sticky Jumper: Same as the Rocket Jumper really. This one is slightly better due to pipes being more effective than the Shotgun. But other than that it’s qutie useless.

– Eyelander: In a competitive setting you will realistically never get enough melee kills to profit from the health bonus gained from those. So I mainly see it as a permanent 25 HP reduction in exchange for a larger melee range. Not worth it whatsoever.
– Scotsman’s Skullcutter: the 20% increase in damage is very nice, but at the same time losing 15% movement speed is bad. Mobility is a very important factor so it doesn’t seem worth it.
– Horseless Headless Horsemann’s Headtaker: Basically a reskin of the Eyelander. I do believe there’s some bonus in killing another Eyelander Demoman with this, but I think we can all agree that’s negligible in competitive play.
– Pain Train: See description under Soldier weapons (I’m lazy).
– Frying Pan: Just a reskin of the Bottle. Obviously allowed.
– Ullapool Caber: A 1-hit melee kill weapon with very little tradeoff. I think it goes without saying that combined with the Demoman’s mobility from Sticky jumping, this weapon is overpowered.
– Claidheamh Mòr: Good, balanced weapon to be used with the Chargin’ Targe. Without the Chargin’ Targe however, it becomes quite useless.

Heavy
– Natascha: It used to be very overpowered, but with the recent introduction of a Heavy limit of 1 (good decision btw) coupled with the nerfs applied to this weapon, it is now fine to be used in my opinion.
– Iron Curtain: Reskin of the Minigun, allowed. ;)
– Brass Beast: Increased damage is always good, but coupled with the Heavy basically being forced to stand still while being spun up and the increased spinout time to start with, this is only really good for ambushes. Ambushes are hard to do with a noise character like a Heavy.

– Sandvich: It’s slightly overpowered, even if everyone is used to it by now. It’s basically a portable medkit with very little tradeoff (I haven’t seen many Heavies rely on their Shotgun).
– Dalokohs Bar: Excellent weapon for public play, but rather pointless in competitive play. It does give a boost to your health, but it doesn’t stack with the overheal from a Medic. In addition to that, it can’t be dropped either.
– Buffalo Steak Sandvich: Transforms you into a melee Scout using Crit-a-Cola for 15 seconds. It just has no place in the competitive format considering the damage output of the Heavy.

– Killing Gloves of Boxing: I’m unsure about this one. On one hand if you kill someone with melee as a Heavy you probably deserve the short duration of crits, but on the other hand it’s yet another weapon that can “randomly” give out crits. This is a tough one to decide on.
– Gloves of Running Urgently: Not only does it give the Heavy roughly the same speed as the Medic, but it will also fill his ubercharge faster. I’d say definitely ban.
– Warrior’s Spirit: Increased damage with melee attacks in exchange for health. I’d say it’s not worth it in any way due to the lack of melee combat in the first place. So the permanent health reduction is quite bad.
– Fists of Steel: 60% damage reduction from ranged weapons is simply too much. This is definitely overpowered.

Engineer
– Frontier Justice: This is a good weapon to be used with the Gunslinger but is overall not that good. Killing people in competitive play with a Sentry is qutie a feat on it’s own so you’ll rarely get to make advantage of that crit boost. So the reduction in clip size is quite harsh due to your inability to defend yourself properly.

– Lugermorph: Reskin of the Pistol, allowed.
– Wrangler: There is so much wrong with this unlock … it is definitely overpowered. It gives you an offensive AND a defensive boost to your Sentry, and allows you to shoot pretty much anything as long as it’s in your line of sight. Just no.

– Golden Wrench: Reskin of the wrench that makes pretty statues on a kill. allow it obviously.
– Gunslinger: Mini Sentries are awesome. They sacrifice offense and defense in exchange for a surprise factor. It’s more of a harassing tool than anything else. I see no reason to ban it.
– Southern Hospitality: A good balanced weapon. In a competitive environment it seemingly only gives a bonus, but I feel that it is a bonus the Engineer can use and is not overpowered.
– Jag: I have found this to be rather useless. The decreased building duration only applies to the initial build or redeployment of your buildings. It doesn’t speed up upgrades and on top of that it even doess less damage. It’s quite useless.

Medic (aka the most balanced set of weapons in the game)
– Blutsauger: A weapon that trades passive health regeneration for active regeneration. Overall it is a very good sidegrade.
– Crusader’s Crossbow: A crossbow that both damages and heals, It is more accurate than both sidegrades, but it has a slower firing speed. Healing with this weapon also doesn’t fill up the ubercharge bar. Very good sidegrade again.

– Kritzkrieg: Sacrifices defense for offence. It is just plain good but not overpowered in the least.

– Ubersaw: Hits slower than the Bonesaw, but fills up some of your ubercharge on hit. It could be considered slightly overpowered, but rewarding a skillful melee hit is not a bad thing.
– Vita-Saw: When the Medic gets killed, we do so to counter the healing and the building of a Uber. Retaining Uber on death just shouldn’t happen and generally messes with the whole flow of the game.
– Amputator: It’s a Bonesaw with an AOE healing taunt. Now considering how dangerous taunting is in general, I’d say this is very well balanced.
NOTE: Crusader’s Crossbow + Amputator has a set bonus of +1hp/sec regeneration. I believe this is a set bonus that could be allowed due to lack of a hat needed to complete the set.

Sniper
– Huntsman: I think it’s fine, even with the slightly wonkey hitboxes. It’s more effective in medium range so it just opens up an alternate way of playing Sniper.
– Sydney Sleeper: Transforms the Sniper into an ever more supportive role. He gets less effective at killing targets, but he can essentially “mark” targets to be focussed down by the team. I believe this weapon can add a lot of depth to the Sniper class he previously didn’t have.

– Jarate: It is slightly overpowered with the limited numbers in a competitive setting, but not too greatly. It can add some mor tactical play but doesn’t need this to be effective. I’m unsure about this one.
– Razorback: Should be banned as it completely locks out the Spy.
– Darwin’s Danger Shield: I have mixed feelings about this. A 25 bonus of HP would protect the Sniper a little bit from spam damage, but will still go down when focussed easily. The SMG is rather useless though, so I’d say it’s a good upgrade.

– Tribalman’s Shiv: Less damage in exchange for bleeding can be good in some situations, it can be useless in others. It’s a well balanced weapon.
– Bushwacka: This is only useful when used with Jarate, and when it is indeed used with Jarate it becomes overpowered. Tough one.

Spy
– Big Kill: Reskin for the Revolver so should be allowed
– Ambassador: Boosts damage output but sacrifices a lot of firing speed in order to be accurate. Greatly depends on the Spy’s personal preference.
– L’Etranger: It is a good sidegrade to the Revolver. The decrease in damage makes it less potent to kill a target, but it is a good trade for the cloak bonus. This is more of a utility weapon in my opinion.

– Your Eternal Reward: Probably quite useless in a competitive setting due to comms being used. Would only really have benefits against an already clueless team.

– Cloak and Dagger: A very useful watch sidegrade for the more patient Spies. It allows for more tactical Spy play.
– Dead Ringer: This is a great weapon to so paranoia amongst the enemy team. Again, adds a lot of tactical play by for example disguising as a friendly with this equipped.
– Enthusiast’s Timepiece: Reskin of the Invisibility Watch so should be allowed.

And now for the rulesets I talked about in the introduction.
First of all I’ll list the reskins which should always be allowed:
– Lugermorph
– Holy Mackarel
– frying Pan
– Iron Curtain
– golden Wrench
– Big Kill
– Enthusiast’s Timepiece

Ruleset #1 (“I’ll take every flavor you have but leave out the strawberry.”)
This ruleset focusses on banning a select few weapons that are clearly overpowered. In addition ALL hats part of a set are banned in this ruleset, to avoid accidental set bonuses.
The banned weapons are:
Mad Milk, Sandman, candy Cane, Ullapool caber, Buffalo Steak Sandvich, Fists of Steel, Wrangler, Vita Saw

So that would be pretty much public play while leaving out the truly overpowered weapons. (generally a retarded idea for competitive play, but I felt like I should include it anyway)

Ruleset #2 (“… actually, leave out the banana and lemon as well.”)
This one is closer to the current ruleset that is planned for Season 9. It has a sufficient amount of unlockables, while leaving out the useles ones and those that are plain annoying.
The banned weapons for this ruleset are:
Shortstop, Crit-a-Cola, Mad Milk, Sandman, Candy Cane, Sun-on-a-Stick, Direct Hit, Black Box, Rocket Jumper, Buff Banner, Batalion’s Backup, Homewrecker, Powerjack. Sharpened Volcano Fragment, Loch’n’Load, sticky Jumper, Ullapool Caber, Buffalo Steak Sandvich, Gloves of Running Urgently, Fists of Steel, Wrangler, Vita-Saw.

As you can see, this one is more realistic for competitive play.

Ruleset #3 (“I’ll have vanilla with some whipped cream please”)
This one is very close to Vanilla play. It includes very few unlockables that are already well established within the community.
The allowed weapons are:
Bonk! Atomic Punch, Equalizer, Flare Gun, Axtinguisher, Chargin’ Targe, Gunslinger, Blutsauger, Kritzkrieg, Ubersaw, Ambassador, Cloak and Dagger, Dead ringer.

So that’s 12 allowed weapons across all classes, I wasn’t too far off with my guess of 10-15 it seems.
This one is also my personal preference. It keeps the rules very simple while still allowing enough variety to build tactics around. There is also not -too- much variety which prevents a certain randomness in the game.

Quoted from Lynn

wall of text

ok.

I really value your inputs <3

cheers for taking the time to write up that wall of text.

While it was well written and lengthy it really didn’t bring anything new to the discussion.
I suggest using your urge to writing for good and apply to write news for cadred.

Quoted from xzr

I suggest using your urge to writing for good

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MTFauI8INY&feature=related

I have mained Scout for quite a while, and am now temporarily Demo, I personally haven’t had an issue with FaN scouts for quite a while now.

And it wasn’t supposed to bring anything new to the table either, I pretty much felt like writing something and that’s that.

The problem is
there is no problem
is there