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So, as we know, there are some concerns over significant flaws within competitive TF2’s main gametype. Control point maps can lead to slow, highly stalemated games especially in the upper eschelons of the scene. I’m not here to debate whether this is true- if a significant number of people think this isn’t true in the replies then I’ll drop the idea, but for now I think this game desperately needs to be made more interesting. Sideshow realises the idea clearly (if longwindedly) here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDM5ThcDRiQ

tl;dr: It’s boring for spectators. I’d add it’s boring for players too.

I just don’t think we should be so stumped over the question of what to do here- in fact, there’s not need to reinvent the wheel when other games can give us easy clues as to what the solutions (gametypes) could be.

My initial inspiration came thinking about domination, a gametype from Call of Duty (I know, I know, but hear me out). For those who haven’t ventured into this wilderness before, domination is a gametype with 3 flags (control points, if you will). These begin neutral until capped, generally there is a stasis period at the start of the game where one waits for A and C to be capped before contesting B (midfights, still keeping classic TF2 in there). Teams will gain a point for every flag they own every 5 seconds (not exact but you get the point). The game has a 10 minute timer and a mercy limit of 200 points. This has been modified in more recent editions to include a half time but, again, the essential objectives are outlined there.

Just to make sure no one skipped the explanation: this is NOT cp_standin or cp_gravelpit. Fuck those maps. If you skipped the above and thought it was, read it again. It’s more like koth with 3 points, but still nowhere near to that.

I don’t initially see a reason why this couldn’t be used and can see quite a few positives- the main one being free-flowing, non-stalematey TF2.

It would definitely be an intense gametype, and the closer the flags are together the more dm-intense it would be, and the further away from each other the more tactically based the game would be. I haven’t really thought how this would relate to the spawns- would it be too complex to have the spawn move in relation to which flags you hold?

The gametype essentially forces you to always push for a 2-flag hold at least, with oppurtunities for crazy comebacks or complete dominations with 3-flag holds. It has potential for introduction of snipers depending on map design. Engineer might have to be banned or limited for this to stay interesting, the whole point of this suggestion is to keep it flowing- I mean who gives a shit? I’ve never personally understood this concept of keeping the competitive game close to pubs, when classes like engie are inherantly anti-skill.

Anyway, lemme know what you think, this is all very alpha-stage speculation on my part, hopefully I can inspire some people to think about this topic with me. If any of you think this could really take off and know a map maker- get talking to them or have them add me and I’ll explain myself in mumble or sthn.

Nothing like that ^

good regular koth maps are fine really. There’s just not a huge deal to chose from at the moment

To people’s points about koth being the way forward but the issue being a lack of good koth maps – I’d argue that koth is boring to watch and to play because the game is all focused around one point the whole game.

I feel like a lot of people really dislike koth for a bigger reason than just a dislike of viaduct or other koth maps we’ve tried.

There is also much less strategy than something like 5cp as the game moves and flows as points get taken.

To mould’s point about method’s idea being just a more convoluted version of koth – I must admit that I haven’t watched call of duty so my idea of exactly what the idea is isn’t perfect. But I doubt it will just be like holding mid if you have two points.

I imagine all three points will be fairly independent and holding two points at once will be different to just holding mid on koth as there will be multiple routes to cap one of the points and it won’t just be as if one team can hold a point which prevents the other team from getting to the other point they hold.

This also opens up with some strategy with the defending team being able to rotate themselves around the points that they hold and attackers being able to exploit a weaker defence or presence on one of the points that they hold.

It will also be more difficult to hold two points at once than just holding one on koth so I see more back and forth going on.

I think the biggest reason that this is potentially better than koth is that the game will move around a bit and won’t have all the focus around one point, making it more interesting and a better experience for spectators.

Maybe this idea is a good one, maybe not but I agree that 5cp is pretty bad once stalemates start to occur and we need to change something and I don’t think koth is the answer.

Quoted from Bulow

If you build it, they will come. And then hopefully they will play test it, and help you improve it.

Canalzone 2 is a very good mad, should be played more.

it’s not a good map to spectate, you cannot follow 8 points

I don’t have any idea of what I’m doing here or if what I’m about to say as ever been proposed or if it is completely retarded. Be free to trash my shit idea.

So, why don’t we make 5CP non time based? I mean, time would still be important, but wouldn’t be the core of winning. Basically we need to make a system that effectively punishes standing around itching your ball sack.
So the stupid idea I had is, having a point system.

Let’s say 10000 points for each team, with the goal being reaching 0 points for the win.
Each mid and 2nd points captured score -500 points for the team, while the last point scores -750. Not only this but every time you capture a point, the points of your team start actively going down like so:
First 15 seconds: -10points per second
15-20 seconds: -3p/s
20-30 seconds: -1p/s
30-90 seconds: NO POINT REWARD
90+: Not sure what to make of this, either -3p/s for the other team or +5p/s for the team that has the point

This would effectively work as stalemate killer, since standing around hinders your team. I’m sure that the actual point values for each action and starting points would need to be tweaked and optimized so that a balanced match doesn’t take more than the half an hour we are used to.

I dunno, just throwing this out there.

Almost everyone is crying about all these dmlords without brain, and then the ideas are about having more dm-centric maps. I must admit I dont get it.

Quoted from hr

[…]
I think method’s suggestion wouldn’t just be a dm-fest. It would be moreso than 5cp but much less than koth in my opinion. There would certainly be some interesting tactics with rotating presence between points and spotting pushes early I think. Either way stalemates are terrible and a few more dmlords for a lot less stalemates seems like a good trade to me.