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Quoted from biskuu

[…]

Everything you say just sounds really salty, seems like you were unable to move up the divs because of “prem and high players sandbagging in open” and because “some teams get easier games and are able to move up divs while other teams get hard games and are stuck in their div forever”.

I also don’t understand how having a smaller community is good in any way? Having more teams should be what we’re aiming for. And how is this connected to the swiss system? We could have the same amount of teams with the old system, it doesn’t matter at all.

Why is the skill gap between open teams even relevant? You just need to change your mindset if you are completely new and low open. You don’t move up divs the first few seasons, you move up in open. Anyway, you’ll improve and get better.

Fact is, if you’re a good player, you won’t have any problems moving up the divs. Just need to be keen and find people that share the same mindset. In the end, the best teams will place in top 3, whether it’s in swiss system or in the div system with playoffs (like season 19).

Quoted from MARS^

[…]

Everything you say just sounds really salty, seems like you were unable to move up the divs because of “prem and high players sandbagging in open” and because “some teams get easier games and are able to move up divs while other teams get hard games and are stuck in their div forever”.

I also don’t understand how having a smaller community is good in any way? Having more teams should be what we’re aiming for. And how is this connected to the swiss system? We could have the same amount of teams with the old system, it doesn’t matter at all.

Why is the skill gap between open teams even relevant? You just need to change your mindset if you are completely new and low open. You don’t move up divs the first few seasons, you move up in open. Anyway, you’ll improve and get better.

Fact is, if you’re a good player, you won’t have any problems moving up the divs. Just need to be keen and find people that share the same mindset. In the end, the best teams will place in top 3, whether it’s in swiss system or in the div system with playoffs (like season 19).

Don’t put words in my mouth I was unable to move up because I wasn’t good yet.
All I am saying is that this system where Prem players are able to sandbag and play on Open isn’t fair.
Unfortunately you are missing the point, this has nothing to do with me and I don’t really care how what I am saying “sounds” to you. Read what I stated on my comments and take what you will from that other than that, the skill gap is important because Divisions my friend exist for the sole purpose of teams getting matched against other teams of SIMILAR skill.

Lastly, did I even say that having a smaller community is bad? You are putting words in my mouth again, I never stated that it is bad that we have so many teams I said it is bad that we are throwing 103 teams of different skill in the same Tier, not just because top-Open is going to smash low-Open, but also because in my first comment I said the Groups system seemed more rewarding as teams could achieve first place in their Group which at my opinion is much more rewarding.

“some teams get easier games and are able to move up divs while other teams get hard games and are stuck in their div forever”

EDIT: I never said this lol. My friend too much highlander has hurt your brain I think you are triping balls. I created a scenario of a team that loses 2 officials against teams of similar skill and moves up a division just because they did well against low and average Mid teams as a result of how the system matches teams.

Quoted from biskuu

[…]

1. All I am saying is that this system where Prem players are able to sandbag and play on Open isn’t fair.
2. Unfortunately you are missing the point, this has nothing to do with me and I don’t really care how what I am saying “sounds” to you. Read what I stated on my comments and take what you will from that other than that, the skill gap is important because Divisions my friend exist for the sole purpose of teams getting matched against other teams of SIMILAR skill.

3. Lastly, did I even say that having a smaller community is bad? You are putting words in my mouth again, I never stated that it is bad that we have so many teams
4. I said it is bad that we are throwing 103 teams of different skill in the same Tier, not just because top-Open is going to smash low-Open, but also because in my first comment I said the Groups system seemed more rewarding as teams could achieve first place in their Group which at my opinion is much more rewarding.

[…]
5. EDIT: I never said this lol. My friend too much highlander has hurt your brain I think you are triping balls.
6. I created a scenario of a team that loses 2 officials against teams of similar skill and moves up a division just because they did well against low and average Mid teams as a result of how the system matches teams.

1. Please give me the link to an open team that has a prem player on its roster as a main player.
2. This isn’t possible. You will always have skillgaps in the lowest div. And even in prem, the bottom prem teams get smashed by the top prem teams. The division system doesn’t change this, so it makes no difference what system you use. Thus the skill gap isn’t relevant.
3. Ok then, misunderstood you there. Sounded like you are longing for a smaller community.
4. Again, there is no way to avoid this.
5. What does highlander have to do with this and why am I still better in 6s than you even though I played so much highlander then?
6. Some people stated it already: In the old system, one group could be significantly easier than another group in the same div, which creates the same scenario of one team having an easier time moving up the div than another. Again, you can’t avoid this unless admins are godlike at guessing the skill levels of teams.

Sorry for putting words in your mouth but you do have to understand how salty you sound and how little sense your arguments against the swiss system make…

Quoted from MARS^

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Please give me the link to an open team that has a prem player on its roster as a main player.

http://etf2l.org/teams/21772/
Played against this team on my last official last season before playoffs^^

EDIT: What I don’t understand is how the top teams in a Tier are guaranteed to go up a Tier just because they WILL at some point get matched against teams that are clearly worse than them.
Even if they play 2 Officials against teams that are also on the top of their Tier and lose them, they are still going to make playoffs thus having the right to apply for going up a Tier.

Quoted from Pete_

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who exactly is supposed to be prem on that team?

http://etf2l.org/forum/user/24023/
EDIT: Also 2 players who played div 3

Quoted from biskuu

[…]
http://etf2l.org/forum/user/24023/
EDIT: Also 2 players who played div 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQOG5BkY2Bc

Quoted from MARS^

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That’s pretty funny because they even lost an official 0-6 when he played. He also played medic, can you really call that sandbagging?

http://logs.tf/904362
http://logs.tf/904440